What will happen when I die?

[sandy whitelinger]

I don't deny that, but I specifically affirm in several of the threads that I listed that God affects judgment - whether 'positive' or 'negative' through Jesus Christ.

The role of "belief" is what I challenge. Romans 9, for example (as quoted above), is explicitly against any role of "belief" on the part of the person "saved".

What do you use to justify this as a passage relating to salvation rather than the calling of the promised seed as God's elect people?

 

[lilithu]

It seems to me that what you would like to do is debate the beliefs of those who think you're going to hell, rather than engage in informative discussion about the various beliefs on what happens after death. If that is the case, there's nothing wrong with that but I don't understand why you've chosen to put this thread in the comparative religion discussion section.

It's rather confusing for the nice people trying to answer your questions.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I see. So no matter how 'good' a person is, there is no way into heaven other than through Christ? Thanks for your honesty, it does seem very unfair though. How exactly is one 'born again'?

It only seems unfair because you are relating behavior to salvation when it doesn't apply. The problem goes back to the Garden of Eden when Man ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God stated that man cannot have that knowledge and live forever. Death came upon man as a result of that. Man needs to be redeemed from that corruption (both the knowledge and the curse of death). Nowhere does the Bible state that behavior is the way to redemption for this.

The way around the corruption brought upon man by the fall is to be regenerated back to the prefall state and this is only available throught Christ. This is the meaning and the purpose of being born again or reformed into an acceptable man (to God).

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It seems to me that what you would like to do is debate the beliefs of those who think you're going to hell, rather than engage in informative discussion about the various beliefs on what happens after death. If that is the case, there's nothing wrong with that but I don't understand why you've chosen to put this thread in the comparative religion discussion section.

It's rather confusing for the nice people trying to answer your questions.

To whom are you reffering?

 

[robtex]

It's rather confusing for the nice people trying to answer your questions.

If I remember correctly you stated in past threads you don't, I am guessing, intuitivly know, what happens after death but I would be curious to know why you percieve there to be an afterlife. I want to see your justification for your belief in it being as, if I remember correctly, you stating previously you weren't sure or unclear on what happens after death. I am not planning on debating it but more curious in your answer on it.

 

[Devil's_Chaplain]

It seems to me that what you would like to do is debate the beliefs of those who think you're going to hell, rather than engage in informative discussion about the various beliefs on what happens after death. If that is the case, there's nothing wrong with that but I don't understand why you've chosen to put this thread in the comparative religion discussion section.

It's rather confusing for the nice people trying to answer your questions.

I wasn't aware that I was debating. I stated in my OP that I want a discussion about this and to hear other peoples opinions. Admittidly people in the thread have begun to attack each other slightly. Could a mod please move this thread to the debate section if it's so big a deal? Thanks.

 

[robtex]

I wasn't aware that I was debating. I stated in my OP that I want a discussion about this and to hear other peoples opinions. Admittidly people in the thread have begun to attack each other slightly. Could a mod please move this thread to the debate section if it's so big a deal? Thanks.

Moved to general religious debates.

 

[lilithu]

If I remember correctly you stated in past threads you don't, I am guessing, intuitivly know, what happens after death but I would be curious to know why you percieve there to be an afterlife. I want to see your justification for your belief in it being as, if I remember correctly, you stating previously you weren't sure or unclear on what happens after death. I am not planning on debating it but more curious in your answer on it.

Hi Robtex, where did I say that I believe in an afterlife?

What I have said is that I don't worry about an afterlife. Whether or not there is one is irrelevant to me. Honestly, except for when the topic comes up in terms of different people's beliefs on the issue, I spend 0 time thinking about it myself.

 

[PureX]

That's certainly good advise. I do try and just be nice with them, but I do get offended. Don't get me wrong, I am not afraid to die, I am not worried about what will happen to me. I just don't understand how people can believe this to be fair.

I don't think they're thinking of it in terms of "fairness". I think they need to believe in a powerful and vengeful God, and to believe that they have a special deal with this God, so that they'll feel more in control of the big unknown: death.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What do you use to justify this as a passage relating to salvation rather than the calling of the promised seed as God's elect people?

Salvation is the calling of the promised seed as God's elect people.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Salvation is the calling of the promised seed as God's elect people.

What Scripture do you use to justify this?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What Scripture do you use to justify this?

Romans 9.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What do you use to justify this as a passage relating to salvation rather than the calling of the promised seed as God's elect people?

Romans 8.28-30 clearly associates calling with salvation.

27And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[f] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[g] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Romans 9 says that God calls who he wants to

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Romans 9.16 - says that belief does not matter - it is a human act

16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Romans 8.28-30 clearly associates calling with salvation.

27And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[f] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[g] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Romans 9 says that God calls who he wants to

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Romans 9.16 - says that belief does not matter - it is a human act

16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,

This is just the old predestination argument expressed by Calvinists to justify that man is totally incapable of playing a role in salvation. You offered nothing that is evident that the calling of salvation is the same calling that God used to call Abraham and eventually Israel as His chosen people.

you will also need to offer something which shows that the method of God excercising His mercy on who he will, in regard to salvation, is not through belief in His Son by faith.

 

[jewscout]

for Judaism, the righteous of all nations have a place in the World to Come.

Just be a good person in this life...living by the "Golden Rule", as it were, is a pretty safe operating porcedure IMO

then again, i don't believe in Hell so how can i say you are going to a place that doesn't exist.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This is just the old predestination argument expressed by Calvinists to justify that man is totally incapable of playing a role in salvation. You offered nothing that is evident that the calling of salvation is the same calling that God used to call Abraham and eventually Israel as His chosen people.

Just because Calvinists use it for predestination does not mean that Romans 8-9 are not talking about salvation.

you will also need to offer something which shows that the method of God excercising His mercy on who he will, in regard to salvation, is not through belief in His Son by faith.

I did show the method: it is God's choice.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Just because Calvinists use it for predestination does not mean that Romans 8-9 are not talking about salvation.



I did show the method: it is God's choice.

Yet Scripture is clear that God's chosen method for individual salvation is by belief on his Son.

You still haven't offered anyt Scriptural basis that is evident that the calling of salvation is the same calling that God used to call Abraham and eventually Israel as His chosen people.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Yet Scripture is clear that God's chosen method for individual salvation is by belief on his Son.

There is no such thing as individual salvation.

You still haven't offered anyt Scriptural basis that is evident that the calling of salvation is the same calling that God used to call Abraham and eventually Israel as His chosen people.

Then you have a reading problem.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then you have a reading problem.

This is just your usual retort when put on the spot. You offered only your thought on the matter.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

There is no such thing as individual salvation.

And what do you base this bit of revelation on?