What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[Trailblazer]

Says the person that doesn't study the Bible. Ya think maybe IndigoChild might know more than you about that?

No, because she missed recognizing Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

But no, it doesn't matter, because you find some way to make everything you say the truth. Like when you say all the prophecies have been fulfilled, and now you say that some were not fulfilled. Could you clarify that?

I never said all the Messianic prophecies were fulfilled. I said that all the prophecies for the Return of Christ and the "Coming" of the Messiah have been fulfilled. All the prophecies for the Messianic Age have not been fulfilled yet because we are only at the very beginning of the Messianic Age.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are there direct quotes about Hinduism from Baha'u'llah himself, or is there just stuff from later 'scholars' interpreting? If so, I'd like to read them. Otherwise it's little more than Zakir Naik stuff. According to our friend Adrian, Baha'u'llah said very little about Sanatana Dharma. A warning not to worship false idols doesn't count. Neither does Krisnna being the founder really.

I have a work break. From memory not much was said.

From what I see, which RF discussion has shown me, that it could be that not much needed to be said. It could be Eastern thought is more in tune with our spiritual selves and that the greater transition is required by those that are brought up in Western ideals and thoughts, they are based in much materialistic tenancies.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why do I get a strange feeling these guys are a different type of Baha'i religion.

CG, luckily I was not born yesterday and also know you are not ignorant.

Thus I offer You could have chosen another path, thus all I have ever offered, is that, it is you that has to determine your motives.

So why that post?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Good analogy. So truth is the tree. And it has lots of truth branches. On those different branches are different flowers, buds and fruit. Some branches get pruned, and some fruit is rotten though? And, what if some other fruit trees get grafted into that truth trunk, then some parts of the tree would be producing different kinds of truth. Yeah, that analogy works great... kind of? But that's not progressive revelation.

Your grade school analogy works better there. Kids go to the first grade, get taught one thing. Go to the next grade and get taught something else. Some kids only believe what their first grade teacher taught them, so they stay there. Then after all these grades, a teacher comes along and says that "the story about Isaac isn't true. Other things you were taught as true are fairytales, like a 6 day Creation. The things in the next grade about Jesus being God and being resurrected... not true. What I teach you is the truth. So come to my graduate program and forget most of what you were taught. Now listen and take notes. You will be tested. In the beginning was a tree, that was God. On that tree were many branches..."

As with all anology and Metephor, they work for what one wants to see.

Jesus spoke this way, behold the difference of opinion that resulted.

What does your heart want?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I have a work break. From memory not much was said.

From what I see, which RF discussion has shown me, that it could be that not much needed to be said. It could be Eastern thought is more in tune with our spiritual selves and that the greater transition is required by those that are brought up in Western ideals and thoughts, they are based in much materialistic tenancies.

Regards Tony

Most certainly some of Baha'u'llah's better ideas like non-violence were prevalent in eastern thought far before his time. Perhaps he was just unaware of it. There has been a long history of anti-Hinduism with Islam for sure. At that time there was less awareness all around, and most certainly in places like Iran, where no one would dare even speak of any virtues in the philosophies of the Vedas.

 

[CG Didymus]

Wouldn't you like to know.

Nobody says I am not nice but you. I don't wonder way. You are using this forum as a platform to deride the Baha'is and the Baha'i Faith just because you have decided you do not like it, pretending to ask questions you want answers to, but the answers have been provided and you just keep asking the same questions over and over and over again. That way you can hide your contempt, but not from me. Then when I call you out you say I am not nice.

You just don't like me standing up to you because the other Baha'is let you carry on unabated.
Carry on doing what you're doing. Apparently you are getting something out of it.

Wow... You can't answer Bible questions, yet quote it all the time. You avoided the question I had about why Baha'is use the date for the rebuilding of Jerusalem as the starting date on one of Daniel's prophecies. You can't answer why the number or mark of the beast, 666, is made a date, 661AD. It is you and the other Baha'is that have put these claims out and when you can't back them you find a way to dodge them... again and again. So since you can't answer them, then don't respond to my posts. You are not bringing people from other religions together. Baha'is have pushed many away. How many times have I said that there's a lot of thing I like about the Baha'i Faith, but... very un-Baha'i like, you only focus on the negative. Great, keep doing what you're doing. Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i, and that ain't a good thing.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, luckily I was not born yesterday and also know you are not ignorant.

Thus I offer You could have chosen another path, thus all I have ever offeredids that it is you that has to determine your motives.

So why that post?

Regards Tony

You said go find the answers about the prophecies about the Most Great Peace. That site was near the top. They are expecting a lot of disasters, but not the real Baha'is? And how about the quote they had from Shoghi. Is that for real?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Loverofhumanity said: We believe there will be a golden age, a world civilisation when the kingdom of God has been established and the Most Great Peace will have come. The Book of Revelation speaks about as new heaven and a new earth’ and the Old Testament speaks about the wolf and the lamb lying together and that war will be no more. If you put all these visions together you will get a picture of the golden age. I just named a couple but if you research it thoroughly you will find a quite detailed description of the age of peace.

When will this "Most Great Peace" happen? That is what the Christians and Jews are telling the Baha'is. The prophecies, to me, seem to be pointing to that day. Instead, Baha'i say most of these prophecies were already fulfilled in 1844. Here is IndigoChild...

Baha'is can't keep pretending everything is fulfilled by saying that "it's a process". No, that golden age, that "Most Great Peace", when does that happen? When does the lamb lie down on Broadway, oops, I mean with the wolf?

If there are no prophecies, then we still have Bible prophecies that are still waiting to be fulfilled. Like the 1000 years? And about that, why is that not converted to days then back to years like all the other day, month and year prophecies?

If you don’t like unfolding or process then same with the superstitious who believe without any effort on our part God’s going to coming down, bring His Kingdom, set it up and clean our homes and toilets too!

It’s ludicrous don’t you think that we just sit on our hands and get waited on by God?. We are God’s servants not the other way round.

The fantasies religionists seem to have concocted about some sort of magical wand being waved and instant paradise is just too superstitious to give any credence to whatsoever. The Holy Books have always been written in a mystical and symbolic language mixed with some literal historic elements but they are all too easily distinguishable.

Religionists definitely need science to get them out of this quagmire of superstitions where everything is a miracle and a magic show. No wonder when a Great Spiritual Being like Baha’u’llah appears they denounce Him to be an imposter because they want a spectacular magic show with miracles and such which will never happen as will also automatic peace never happen. We have to build it with the hands God gave us. .

 

[Trailblazer]

Wow... You can't answer Bible questions, yet quote it all the time. You avoided the question I had about why Baha'is use the date for the rebuilding of Jerusalem as the starting date on one of Daniel's prophecies. You can't answer why the number or mark of the beast, 666, is made a date, 661AD. It is you and the other Baha'is that have put these claims out and when you can't back them you find a way to dodge them... again and again. So since you can't answer them, then don't respond to my posts. You are not bringing people from other religions together. Baha'is have pushed many away. How many times have I said that there's a lot of thing I like about the Baha'i Faith, but... very un-Baha'i like, you only focus on the negative. Great, keep doing what you're doing. Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i, and that ain't a good thing.

I did not avoid the question. I told you I do not have the answer. Why can't you just accept that?

Baha'is have not pushed anyone away. They push us away. All you have to do is read on any thread like this that a Baha'i started at all the derogatory comments, insults and accusations. Enough is enough.

I do not focus on the negative, you do, but I do not expect you to see that.

"Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i,"
More negative and derogatory comments. It never ends.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You said go find the answers about the prophecies about the Most Great Peace. That site was near the top. They are expecting a lot of disasters, but not the real Baha'is? And how about the quote they had from Shoghi. Is that for real?

If you don’t like unfolding or process then you’re in the same category of the superstitious who believe without any effort on our part God’s going to coming down, bring His Kingdom, set it up and clean our homes and toilets too!

It’s ludicrous to think that we just sit on our hands and get waited on by God. We are God’s servants not the other way round.

The fantasies religionists seem to have concocted about some sort of magical wand being waved and instant paradise is just too superstitious to give and credence to whatsoever. The Holy Books have always been written in a mystical and symbolic language mixed with some literal historic elements but they are all to easily distinguishable.

Religionists definitely need science to get them out of this quagmire of superstitions where everything is a miracle and a magic show. No wonder when. Great Spiritual Being like Baha’u’llah appears they denounce Him to be an imposter because they want a spectacular magic show with miracles and such which will never happen as will also automatic peace never happen. We have to build it with the hands God gave us. .

There are two kinds of calamities or disasters. When Baha’u’llah was alive there were ‘wars and rumours of wars’, great earthquakes, great starfalls as well as the appearance of Halleys Comet and the moon turning to blood. These were all signs and proofs that Christ had returned. These calamities already appeared signalising His coming.

The wars since are nothing to do with His Coming. The wars and calamities since He has returned are a result of humanity rejecting His call to unity.

Because the kings and rulers failed to heed His call to unite we have had two world wars and so the calamities we are experiencing now is not because He hasn’t come but because He has come and we ignored His call to unity.

So we have a situation where we are going to have to learn the hard way that we would have been better off listening to Baha’u’llah when He called us to unite than come to the same conclusion through some massive calamity.

But He has definitely come. The calamities now are due to our rejection of His call to unite.

 

[osgart]

I did not avoid the question. I told you I do not have the answer. Why can't you just accept that?

Baha'is have not pushed anyone away. They push us away. All you have to do is read on any thread like this that a Baha'i started at all the derogatory comments, insults and accusations. Enough is enough.

I do not focus on the negative, you do, but I do not expect you to see that.

"Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i,"
Mroe negative and derogatory comments. It never ends.

Happy Thanksgiving Trailblazer! Still keeping those atheists busy I see.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm outa here within 30 so I won't know, and memories like that don't carry over with the soul, so the whole idea is moot unless it happens real soon. But if SF goes, so will LA, Seattle , Vancouver, Portland.

The cities are doomed

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Wow... You can't answer Bible questions, yet quote it all the time. You avoided the question I had about why Baha'is use the date for the rebuilding of Jerusalem as the starting date on one of Daniel's prophecies. You can't answer why the number or mark of the beast, 666, is made a date, 661AD. It is you and the other Baha'is that have put these claims out and when you can't back them you find a way to dodge them... again and again. So since you can't answer them, then don't respond to my posts. You are not bringing people from other religions together. Baha'is have pushed many away. How many times have I said that there's a lot of thing I like about the Baha'i Faith, but... very un-Baha'i like, you only focus on the negative. Great, keep doing what you're doing. Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i, and that ain't a good thing.

The answer regarding Daniel is in Some Answered Questions.

What many fail to understand is that Baha’is are not interpreters like followers of other Faiths. We rely totally on the interpretations of Baha’u’llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

Now in most cases there is an interpretation and if we don’t know it by heart we can look it up. I’d have to find the one about the beast and the number but I think it refers to s caliph in the year 666ad. Whatever the writings say we agree with.

But we are not interpreters so there’s a lot we don’t know.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My favorite Baha'i prophecies are that San Francisco will get obliterated.

Did you read the question? Not what I asked. What I asked was for the reason given at the time said prophecy was made.

I hope you do not mind a short quote applicable to your question, there are quite a few passages on this, but to me I see this is the main reason, I had these thoughts before I was a Baha'i, that we are a balance in the spiritual worlds and when we change that balance, we bring events upon our own selves;

"From the fellowship and commingling of the elemental atoms, life results. In their harmony and blending there is ever newness of existence. It is radiance, completeness; it is consummation; it is life itself. Just now the physical energies and natural forces which come under our immediate observation are all at peace. The sun is at peace with the earth upon which it shines. The soft breathing winds are at peace with the trees. All the elements are in harmony and equilibrium. A slight disturbance and discord among them might bring another San Francisco earthquake and fire. A physical clash, a little quarreling among the elements as it were, and a violent cataclysm of nature results. This happens in the mineral kingdom. Consider, then, the effect of discord and conflict in the kingdom of man, so superior to the realm of inanimate existence. How great the attendant catastrophe, especially when we realize that man is endowed by God with mind and intellect. Verily, mind is the supreme gift of God. Verily, intellect is the effulgence of God." Abdu'l-Baha : The Promulgation of Universal Peace Part 2

Thus disunity is an imbalance, that will bring events that will compel us to find a balance. There is much written on what disunity will bring to mankind, and what we will face.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which wouldn't be good. So who said what and when? And if it was Shoghi, why did he say something that didn't come true?

This is one of the quotes, by Shoghi Effendi, who did live in tumultuous times;

"Great and far-reaching as have been those changes in the past, they cannot but appear, when viewed in their proper perspective, except as subsidiary adjustments preluding that transformation of unparalleled majesty and scope which humanity is in this age bound to undergo. That the forces of a world catastrophe can alone precipi ate such a new phase of human thought is, alas, becoming increasingly apparent. That nothing short of the fire of a severe ordeal, unparalleled in its intensity, can fuse and weld the discordant entities, that constitute the elements of present-day civilization, into the integral components of the world Commonwealth of the future is a truth which future events will increasingly demonstrate. The prophetic voice of Bahá'u'lláh warning, in the concluding passages of the "Hidden Words", "the peoples of the world" that "an unforeseen calamity is following them and that grievous retribution awaiteth them" throws indeed a lurid light upon the immediate fortunes of sorrowing humanity. Nothing but a fiery ordeal, out of which humanity will emerge, chastened and prepared, can succeed in implanting that sense of responsibility which the leaders of a new-born age must arise to shoulder. I would again direct your attention to those ominous words of Bahá'u'lláh which I have already quoted: "And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake."

My guess this generation will see this unfold, but in the end it does not matter, we have to live our life always as lovers of all humanity.

Regards Tony

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, but all religions have their visions for the future and how we will get there. Yours might be right, but it might be wrong. But I will give you this, it's a helluva a lot better than what Fundy Christians are saying. Forget San Francisco, the whole world is going to go through hell. Oh, and it's not "scoffing" as much as pointing out misinformation... or a possible false prophecy. Which wouldn't be good. So who said what and when? And if it was Shoghi, why did he say something that didn't come true?

There is a lot recorded, but as I suggested, in the end we live for the day we are in. Our choice is to do good now for all people.

"Know thou that hardship and privation shall increase day by day, and the people shall thereby be afflicted. The doors of joy and happiness shall be closed on all sides, and terrible wars shall occur. Frustration and despair shall encompass the people until they are forced to turn to the One True God. Then will the light of most joyful tidings so illumine the horizons that the cry of 'Yá Bahá’u’l Bahá' will be raised from every direction. This shall come to pass." ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Lights of Guidance, p. 130

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Wow... You can't answer Bible questions, yet quote it all the time. You avoided the question I had about why Baha'is use the date for the rebuilding of Jerusalem as the starting date on one of Daniel's prophecies. You can't answer why the number or mark of the beast, 666, is made a date, 661AD. It is you and the other Baha'is that have put these claims out and when you can't back them you find a way to dodge them... again and again. So since you can't answer them, then don't respond to my posts. You are not bringing people from other religions together. Baha'is have pushed many away. How many times have I said that there's a lot of thing I like about the Baha'i Faith, but... very un-Baha'i like, you only focus on the negative. Great, keep doing what you're doing. Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i, and that ain't a good thing.

This might help too.

Biblical Verses, Interpretation of

 

[Vinayaka]

I hope you do not mind a short quote applicable to your question, there are quite a few passages on this, but to me I see this is the main reason, I had these thoughts before I was a Baha'i, that we are a balance in the spiritual worlds and when we change that balance, we bring events upon our own selves;

"From the fellowship and commingling of the elemental atoms, life results. In their harmony and blending there is ever newness of existence. It is radiance, completeness; it is consummation; it is life itself. Just now the physical energies and natural forces which come under our immediate observation are all at peace. The sun is at peace with the earth upon which it shines. The soft breathing winds are at peace with the trees. All the elements are in harmony and equilibrium. A slight disturbance and discord among them might bring another San Francisco earthquake and fire. A physical clash, a little quarreling among the elements as it were, and a violent cataclysm of nature results. This happens in the mineral kingdom. Consider, then, the effect of discord and conflict in the kingdom of man, so superior to the realm of inanimate existence. How great the attendant catastrophe, especially when we realize that man is endowed by God with mind and intellect. Verily, mind is the supreme gift of God. Verily, intellect is the effulgence of God." Abdu'l-Baha : The Promulgation of Universal Peace Part 2

Thus disunity is an imbalance, that will bring events that will compel us to find a balance. There is much written on what disunity will bring to mankind, and what we will face.

Regards Tony

I don't read quotes, Tony. You don't know that?

 

[CG Didymus]

If you don’t like unfolding or process then same with the superstitious who believe without any effort on our part God’s going to coming down, bring His Kingdom, set it up and clean our homes and toilets too!

It’s ludicrous don’t you think that we just sit on our hands and get waited on by God?. We are God’s servants not the other way round.

The fantasies religionists seem to have concocted about some sort of magical wand being waved and instant paradise is just too superstitious to give any credence to whatsoever. The Holy Books have always been written in a mystical and symbolic language mixed with some literal historic elements but they are all too easily distinguishable.

Religionists definitely need science to get them out of this quagmire of superstitions where everything is a miracle and a magic show. No wonder when a Great Spiritual Being like Baha’u’llah appears they denounce Him to be an imposter because they want a spectacular magic show with miracles and such which will never happen as will also automatic peace never happen. We have to build it with the hands God gave us. .

What? All I wanted to know is if you had prophecies when The Most Great Peace was to occur. That day would fit into the Jewish and Christian prophecies very well. God's wrath gets poured out on a sinful world. God's people might go through it, or they might get spared. At the end of all the horrible stuff, The Messiah comes.

So are Baha'is predicting all sorts of horrible things and then, finally, the world turns to the Baha'is. That day, when is that day? 'Cause that is the day the Jews and the Christians are waiting for and expecting. They are being true to what God told them, to watch and wait, to keep following their Laws or, for Christians, to keep their eyes on Jesus. On that day, when the world can take no more The Messiah comes or Jesus returns.

Both you and them put the world through hell before the God's Kingdom on Earth is established. No matter what your "process" is, the world is still going to go through the trials and tribulations. Christians believe God will do away with all the evil doers. What do Baha'is say? After all the turmoil who's going to be left? Will the Baha'is have finished the "process" of getting the LSA's and NSA's and their UHJ working as they should? Will the Baha'is be ready after all the bad stuff for those that have survived? Will the Baha'is be ready when those people ask the Baha'is to take control and bring peace and harmony to the world?

That's the day the Jews and the Christians are expecting... The Great Day of Peace. But their "process" is to be true to their beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

I did not avoid the question. I told you I do not have the answer. Why can't you just accept that?

Baha'is have not pushed anyone away. They push us away. All you have to do is read on any thread like this that a Baha'i started at all the derogatory comments, insults and accusations. Enough is enough.

I do not focus on the negative, you do, but I do not expect you to see that.

"Which, to me, is being a Fundamentalist Baha'i,"
More negative and derogatory comments. It never ends.

Lighten up TB. You gotta look at the bright side.