What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[Vinayaka]

I would add that this quote also tells you that Baha'i are part of that process, that none of us is more worthy than another. What sets us apart are our actions that promote a greater unity, a unity of all mankind;

".. In such a process of purgation, when all humanity is in the throes of dire suffering, the Bahá’ís should not hope to remain unaffected. Should we consider the beam that is in our own eye, we would immediately find that these sufferings are also meant for ourselves, who claimed to have attained. Such world crisis is necessary to awaken us to the importance of our duty and the carrying on of our task.... "

Thus it is all our own choices. Who do we think knows what is best for us? Can we individually control the fate of humanity, or is a collective effort required? If collective, what will guide that movement?

Regards Tony

I separate what Baha'is think from what humanity thinks, whereas in Baha'ithink, there seems to be a ton of overlap.

"All of humanity is in the throes of dire suffering?" Really? Life looks pretty good from here, Tony. The future looks good to me as well. But then I'm an optimist. Part of my faith, and just another paradigm difference.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, check out the "prophecies" in Matthew. Do you believe they are real prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus?

I have not followed any of that conversation.

I do not see that I need to prove Jesus or Muhammad, they are already proved.

The world made their choices and now the world has to choose for or against Baha'u'llah.

The holy books tell of a time when it will be a global choice, thus that is already recorded, so I say to all, I am happy for you one and all to make your own choices.

Personally I find I want to offer less than more.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

They have to, don't they?

I think it came from one of those phony Baha'i sites. Here's what I found...

In this article, I will discuss the claim to the Guardianship by Neal Chase of the group known as Bahá'ís Under the Provisions of the Covenant ("BUPC).

The BUPC believe that the Guardian must be an Aghsán (that is a son of Bahá'u'lláh). While they recognize that there were no bloodline Aghsán available to serve as the Guardian, they claim that the Guardianship now passes by adoption by the present Guardian of his successor. The BUPC do not insist upon a formal legal adoption for their purposes, but instead rely upon some objective manifestation of intent to adopt such as the passing of relics, i.e. a medallion, hair or blood, or other indication of intention. The BUPC accept Mason Remey as the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith on the basis that he was grafted into the Aghsán line when he was allegedly adopted by `Abdu'l-Bahá (He often referred to Mason as His son and the BUPC claim that `Abdu'l-Bahá gave Mason Remey (through Shoghi Effendi) relics of Bahá'u'lláh's blood and hair (symbolic of being grafted into the lineage).
​

This article came from the "Orthodox Baha'i" site. So it might be one covenant breaking group saying that another covenant breaking group is fake. But, I think that quote was supposedly from Shoghi Effendi. But, I don't think everything Shoghi said is considered "infallible". I think just sometimes in somethings. I'm sure Tony or Loverofhumanity will let us know soon enough.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I separate what Baha'is think from what humanity thinks, whereas in Baha'ithink, there seems to be a ton of overlap.

"All of humanity is in the throes of dire suffering?" Really? Life looks pretty good from here, Tony. The future looks good to me as well. But then I'm an optimist. Part of my faith, and just another paradigm difference.

That is how we can choose to see it, for me if even one pereon is suffering, without any recourse to find a solution, then we are all suffering, we have failed to help that person. If one lived in Syria, a different perspective would result.

I personally see a great future for humanity, a magnificent future.

Calamity will always be part of life. My guess is the Roman and Ottaman Empires also saw themselves as safe and secure and as everlasting dominating ways of life.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm sure Tony or Loverofhumanity will let us know soon enough.

Bahai.org is Official. Unfortunately a few individuals took rights to other domain names, that is life.

As you know It only takes one person to set up a website. and there are a handful of individuals that try to be more than they are.

Apart from a handful of want to be's, there is no other Baha'i Faith,nor can there be.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

...unforeseen calamity is following you and that grievous retribution awaiteth you.

That's the problem. I don't think Jews or Christians will disagree with you that God is going to unleash his wrath on this "evil" world (a world he made). But, the questions is, does the Messiah come before or after the bad stuff. Especially with Christians with their Book of Revelation, it seems that the bad stuff gets so bad that if Jesus didn't come back at that time, humans would cease to exist. But, he does. And, it says, at that time, he does away with evil doers and the evil one... for a 1000 years. Has evil and the evil one already been done away with? No. Has the evil one been locked up? It don't seem like it. Yet, the "Christ" has already come and gone? So what does the Second Coming look like? Not like this.

 

[CG Didymus]

Okay, check out the "prophecies" in Matthew. Do you believe they are real prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus? With no weird things going on by Matthew to take a few verses here and there that he could make into prophecies?

I do not see that I need to prove Jesus or Muhammad, they are already proved.

So that means that you believe what Matthew says are real prophecies about Jesus are true? So Jews are wrong and Christians are right? They can take a verse or two from any where in the Bible and say it is a fulfilled prophecy? It is the Jews who are the ones making the mistake of interpreting their Scriptures wrong? But, in other cases, when it concerns Baha'u'llah, it is the Christians that interpret Bible prophecies wrong? Hmmm? Very interesting.

Isaiah 7:14 The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,
16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.​

So in this case the word "virgin" is the correct translation? This child will be called "Immanuel? This child will eat curds and honey. And before he knows enough to reject wrong and choose right, the two kings that the Jewish king dreads will be laid waste? So please give me the Baha'i interpretation of how this is talking about Jesus? It doesn't. Even Christians only take the virgin birth and the Immanuel part and never, ever mention what happens to this child after. In context, it is the age of the child. The child gets older and by the time he reaches a certain age the two enemies will be done away with.

So what is "proved"... That a religion has the right to make anything it wants into Messianic prophecies? That's not a progression. That is not treating another religion's Scripture as the "Word of God". That is taking liberties was their Scriptures to prove your own. So it comes down to... What will the Second Coming look like? Anything that the Baha'is say it is, because everybody else's interpretations are wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's the problem. I don't think Jews or Christians will disagree with you that God is going to unleash his wrath on this "evil" world (a world he made). But, the questions is, does the Messiah come before or after the bad stuff. Especially with Christians with their Book of Revelation, it seems that the bad stuff gets so bad that if Jesus didn't come back at that time, humans would cease to exist. But, he does. And, it says, at that time, he does away with evil doers and the evil one... for a 1000 years. Has evil and the evil one already been done away with? No. Has the evil one been locked up? It don't seem like it. Yet, the "Christ" has already come and gone? So what does the Second Coming look like? Not like this.

Yes people can choose what they hold to in this life, I am not here to change what they want to choose, I only offer what I have found.

God does not unleash evil, God is Justice and Justice dictates we must be warned before the events transpire. The events are of our own making, we have not considered how our spiritual choices are connected to this material world.

I do not say that our spiritual choices can upset the balance of the material world, it is offered from me from what I have read in scriptures, I share this so others may consider.

Remember this story;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-and-malaysia-gets-very-angry/?outputType=amp

This has some truth attached. If other choices were made, then may chaotic things would not have unfolded.

Our choices have universal repercussions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So that means that you believe what Matthew says are real prophecies about Jesus are true? So Jews are wrong and Christians are right? They can take a verse or two from any where in the Bible and say it is a fulfilled prophecy? It is the Jews who are the ones making the mistake of interpreting their Scriptures wrong? But, in other cases, when it concerns Baha'u'llah, it is the Christians that interpret Bible prophecies wrong? Hmmm? Very interesting.

Isaiah 7:14 The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,
16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.​

So in this case the word "virgin" is the correct translation? This child will be called "Immanuel? This child will eat curds and honey. And before he knows enough to reject wrong and choose right, the two kings that the Jewish king dreads will be laid waste? So please give me the Baha'i interpretation of how this is talking about Jesus? It doesn't. Even Christians only take the virgin birth and the Immanuel part and never, ever mention what happens to this child after. In context, it is the age of the child. The child gets older and by the time he reaches a certain age the two enemies will be done away with.

So what is "proved"... That a religion has the right to make anything it wants into Messianic prophecies? That's not a progression. That is not treating another religion's Scripture as the "Word of God". That is taking liberties was their Scriptures to prove your own. So it comes down to... What will the Second Coming look like? Anything that the Baha'is say it is, because everybody else's interpretations are wrong.

My take on those passages.

All Messengers partake of that Virgin Birth. They are born of Women but not of the Spirit of man, they are born of the Holy Spirit. They appear to be a man like unto us.

Matthew 28:18 - "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

The name has meaning;

Immanuel (Hebrew: עִמָּנוּאֵל meaning, "God with us".

Curds, Milk and honey have meaning

Milk is the nourishment a child needs to develop. Thus our milk in this world is the spiritual teachings.

Honey has properties not found in other foods, it is pure and long lasting in that purity.

Curd is as a great probiotic and Improves our immunity.

Numbers have great meaning in Scripture.

It is up to us to read it all with Spiritual intentions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So what is "proved"... That a religion has the right to make anything it wants into Messianic prophecies? That's not a progression. That is not treating another religion's Scripture as the "Word of God". That is taking liberties was their Scriptures to prove your own. So it comes down to... What will the Second Coming look like? Anything that the Baha'is say it is, because everybody else's interpretations are wrong.

Mathimatics can prove if someone has fulfilled prophecy by chance.

We can look at a Prophecy and how it is claimed to be fulfilled and then calculate a probability factor on how many others could have also fulfilled it in that way, then one can add more and more prophecy to the same claimant and obtain a probability factor.

Some have done this, some may do it in greater detail in the future.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

We exclude ourselves, as do most faiths.

Not all Hindus exclude themselves.
There are almost as many Hindus on Baha'i Forums as there are Baha'is.
They love Baha'u'llah and His teachings.

 

[Vinayaka]

I personally see a great future for humanity, a magnificent future.

With all the cities facing total destruction? Doesn't seem that magnificent to me. But then I don't believe in them being wiped out. Optimistic, pessimistic, make up your mind, lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not all Hindus exclude themselves.
There are almost as many Hindus on Baha'i Forums as there are Baha'is.
They love Baha'u'llah and His teachings.

That's just laughable, sorry.

Loving everyone, sure, that's been around a very long time and is proven by the acceptance in India of all of the minority faiths, even to the point of giving special privileges Hindus don't get, but it isn't discussed much.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's just laughable, sorry.

Are you accusing me of lying? If you do not believe me, go and look for yourself.
Why do you think all Hindus have to hate the Baha'i Faith just because you do?
Is it good to hate?
Baha'is do not hate Hindus or anyone else.

 

[Vinayaka]

Are you accusing me of lying? If you do not believe me, go and look for yourself.
Why do you think all Hindus have to hate the Baha'i Faith just because you do?
Is it good to hate?
Baha'is do not hate Hindus or anyone else.

Which forum? I've been to reddit Bahai and don't see any Hindus posting. But sure ... send me to another one. I'll take it all back if I run into many Hindus, as you claim.

Did you read my post? I never said Hindus hate Baha'is, I just said I didn't think Hindus went to Bahai forums.

What gives you the idea I hate Baha'is? Do you associiate disagreement with hate? That's quite the jump.

 

[Trailblazer]

Which forum? I've been to reddit Bahai and don't see any Hindus posting. But sure ... send me to another one. I'll take it all back if I run into many Hindus, as you claim.

Did you read my post? I never said Hindus hate Baha'is, I just said I didn't think Hindus went to Bahai forums.

There are at least two very active Hindus posting on Baha'i Forums. I cannot recall if there are more because I do not keep up on everything that gets posted there. I guess it seemed like there were more because those individuals were posting a lot more than most Baha'is.

What gives you the idea I hate Baha'is? Do you associiate disagreement with hate? That's quite the jump.

Admittedly, hate was too strong of a word so I apologize.

You have a right to disagree with Baha'is just as I have a right to disagree with Hindus.
I do not disagree with Hindus on many subjects, only on reincarnation and on the belief of some Hindus have, that there have been more Manifestations of God since Baha'u'llah and that what they call avatars are the same as Manifestations of God.

Admittedly, most of what the Hindus on the Baha'i Forums talk about is way over my head, but that does not mean I disagree. Religion has never been an interest of mine, so I never studied it as they apparently do. They are very knowledgeable not only on Hinduism but also on Christianity and other religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

There are at least two very active Hindus posting on Baha'i Forums. I cannot recall if there are more because I do not keep up on everything that gets posted there. I guess it seemed like there were more because those individuals were posting a lot more than most Baha'is.

Admittedly, hate was too strong of a word so I apologize.

You have a right to disagree with Baha'is just as I have a right to disagree with Hindus.
I do not disagree with Hindus on many subjects, only on reincarnation and on the belief of some Hindus have, that there have been more Manifestations of God since Baha'u'llah and that what they call avatars are the same as Manifestations of God.

Admittedly, most of what the Hindus on the Baha'i Forums talk about is way over my head, but that does not mean I disagree. Religion has never been an interest of mine, so I never studied it as they apparently do. They are very knowledgeable not only on Hinduism but also on Christianity and other religions.

Thanks twice, that site was down for awhile, a victim of SPAM but I see the owner did something. I was there for awhile but kept getting argued with by another 'Hindu' who I thought was a Baha'i in disguise, but now I'll take a fresh look. 2 isn't a significant number to say 'lots'.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks twice, that site was down for awhile, a victim of SPAM but I see the owner did something. I was there for awhile but kept getting argued with by another 'Hindu' who I thought was a Baha'i in disguise, but now I'll take a fresh look. 2 isn't a significant number to say 'lots'.

Yes, that forum was really bad for a while and many Baha'is left as a result of the spam attacks. I was persistent in reporting them to the owner and he finally got it under control.
No, two isn't that many but there might be more, and if you look you will see that the Hindus have posted a lot of posts, some very long, which is probably why it seemed to me like more. Also, not everyone self-identifies so I am not always sure what religion they are.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, that forum was really bad for a while and many Baha'is left as a result of the spam attacks. I was persistent in reporting them to the owner and he finally got it under control.
No, two isn't that many but there might be more, and if you look you will see that the Hindus have posted a lot of posts, some very long, which is probably why it seemed to me like more. Also, not everyone self-identifies so I am not always sure what religion they are.

Tony and Adrian invited me there for an AMA, and I obliged, but kept getting argued with from a very different 'Hindu', my thread being hijacked so I finally just gave up. Guy couldn't take a hint. Not really prepared to try that movie again.

 

[Trailblazer]

Tony and Adrian invited me there for an AMA, and I obliged, but kept getting argued with from a very different 'Hindu', my thread being hijacked so I finally just gave up. Guy couldn't take a hint. Not really prepared to try that movie again.

Yeah, there is one Hindu poster there who is pretty persistent and he does not like it when people disagree with him. I attended that movie for some time about six months ago and I am not prepared to try it again. Live and learn.