What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[Trailblazer]

Oh, I've answered your question. Fully.

No, you have not provided verses. All you have given me is your personal opinion.

And again, we are not talking about the throne of God. We are talking about the throne of David.

There is no throne of David. If there was you could provide the verses. This is trickery.

 

[Trailblazer]

People that speak Hebrew know what Hebrew words mean, and people that speak English know what English words mean. No God is necessary to elaborate on what throne means. Again, what you are doing is changing the meaning of the word to suit your theology. It's trickery.

Anyone who knows the Bible knows that much of the language is symbolic, not literal.
That throne means an actual physical throne is completely absurd.
We do not need to do anything to suit our theology because we know the Messiah has come and gone.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, you have not provided verses. All you have given me is your personal opinion.

There is no throne of David. If there was you could provide the verses. This is trickery.

I have provided what is necessary. Sometimes what is necessary is a verse. I have provided verses regarding David and his throne. Other times what is necessary is logic to link things together. Sometimes things are simply obvious at face value, needing nothing more than a knowledge of the language. For some reason, you have difficulties there.

Honestly, it's been a good discussion, but I think we've worn it out, do you agree?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Anyone who knows the Bible knows that much of the language is symbolic, not literal.
That throne means an actual physical throne is completely absurd.
We do not need to do anything to suit our theology because we know the Messiah has come and gone.

Throne, in its figurative sense, means the seat of power, which is a location.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For the gazillionth time, the subject is David's throne, not God's throne.

It is that throne I talk about.

2 Samuel 17:12-13 "When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. "He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

2 Samuel 22:51"He is a tower of deliverance to His king, And shows loving kindness to His anointed, To David and his descendants forever."

In these passages the Throne of the Kingdom to me is The Word of God.

Note that the 'Annointed' is mentioned in the same light as David's Decendants.

To me the 'Annointed' are also the Decendants, not necessarily always the pure blood line.

Jesus was 'Christ', Annointed by God, part of this line, part of this promise. So was Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Many are the meanings to Kingdom, Throne. House, Temple etc.

Many have been Annointed by God, many have rejected them, One and All.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Every one will see Him. That's how you can avoid many false messiah pretenders. They will say "he is the secret chamber" or he is in the desert; but He isn't there. (Matthew 24:26)

But they'll also probably fake the second coming for gullible people. Research project blue beam. Which is old hat tech at this point. So they have really advanced technology that can create appearances in the sky.

How will you know it’s Jesus as no one knows what He looks like and we don’t have His DNA and extra importantly in Revelation Jesus said He will come with a new name so He won’t be called Jesus then.?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am so impressed with the tone of your posts. You are showing what a great Baha'i should be doing. Kind, respectful and in this post... zero quotes. Shorts quotes to back up a statement I would think most of us could tolerate. But the long quotes are difficult to handle.

Racial and national prejudices are on the way out. Religion is going to be more difficult. The mess the world is in right now fits perfectly into Christianity. They are in fact expecting things to get worse before the second coming. Baha'is say the second coming has happened, and that people need to recognize that it has and get on board with implementing the teachings of Baha'u'llah, the "Divine" physician. But Baha'is are expecting things to get worse also, because the leaders of the world rejected the Baha'i message.

The reality I see is that most all of us are living day to day with our jobs and families and are not going to commit to changing the world. Some are working for change. But it is in specific areas like gender equality and the environment. Oh, and the thing with gun control here in the U.S. The High School kids did their best to tell the leaders of the country that enough is enough... it is time to make changes. Then, after a short time, the story is out of the news and everything goes on with no changes... until the next mass shooting.

So I don't think any major change will happen until things fall apart. Then, if a world leader arises and makes everyone take a mark on their hand or forehead... then I would think that the Christians are right and I'd take a closer look at the Book of Revelation. Now, if the world falls apart and everyone turns to the Baha'is for leadership, that's fine. And I hope people like you will be there promoting peace and harmony amongst all people no matter what race or religion.

CG thank you for your most kind remarks. I’ll take it as your Christmas present! So this is my gift to you.........

Recently this is what happened in my neck of the woods. A couple of beautiful Catholics I met from the Bicentenary brought 13 wonderful people to our home Tuesday. Eight adults and five children. It was a pot luck lunch. We had people from India, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Burma and Australia. Religions present were Muslim, Christian, Hindu and Baha’i. They asked me to talk and say a prayer so I selected a small portion of the prayer for humanity. “Unite all, let the religions agree and make the nations one........” so moving with a cross section of the human race present, so surround - east and west, black and white and different faiths all celebrating their common humanity as one said ‘so it should be.’

Then we had hours of laughter and food and cake and ice cream and chocolates with children playing. So full of love and joy and peace. The Hindu lady thanked us on behalf of everyone and we closed with the words “in the garden of thy heart plant naught but the rose of love”. Everyone was filled with joy at this complete oneness.


Now these beautiful Catholics are so, so humble and love all people and we will be going to church with them on Saturday and Christmas Eve at our request also as God is in all Churches not just ours. This was such a beautiful spirit I felt God had granted us all a glimpse of what our future world will be like where we will all be at one with one another even though we are from different races, religions and nations. A garden of paradise fits the description perfectly for that afternoon.

On Tuesday I experienced a beautiful world if even for a few hours of just plain old us without any them.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have provided what is necessary. Sometimes what is necessary is a verse. I have provided verses regarding David and his throne.

I do not recall any such verses but if you did provide them it was a long time ago, and I cannot find them now. If I made a claim about Baha’u’llah being the Messiah, I would be able to provide the evidence at any time, even if I had provided it previously.

Other times what is necessary is logic to link things together. Sometimes things are simply obvious at face value, needing nothing more than a knowledge of the language. For some reason, you have difficulties there.

Of course, I can say the same exact thing as you are saying. When logic is used and things are linked together it is obvious to me that Baha’u’llah was the Messiah, but because you have a preconceptions about the Messiah based upon your interpretations of scriptures you cannot see that. The same can be said for any Jew or Christian.

Of course, verses from the Tanakh and the Bible can be used to (try to) prove anything you want to (try to) prove because there are many different interpretations of the same verses. Logically speaking, since there are many different interpretations that means that if one interpretation conflicts with another interpretation they cannot both be correct. There is no reason to believe that any particular interpretation is correct because God has given nobody the authority to interpret scriptures. God gives His Manifestations that authority, but no ordinary human has that authority.

Honestly, it's been a good discussion, but I think we've worn it out, do you agree?

Yes, I agree, since it is not really a discussion at all. It is just you telling me what you believe about the Messiah and me telling you what I believe about the Messiah, and never the twain shall meet.

 

[Trailblazer]

Throne, in its figurative sense, means the seat of power, which is a location.

You are changing it to a literal sense when you insist that the seat of power is a physical location on earth.

 

[74x12]

How will you know it’s Jesus as no one knows what He looks like and we don’t have His DNA and extra importantly in Revelation Jesus said He will come with a new name so He won’t be called Jesus then.?

He said He's coming in His Father's glory. (Matthew 16:27) So He'll be coming as God.

Besides, you'll know Him then; if you know Him now. I don't think there is a need to wait to know Jesus.

 

[loverofhumanity]

He said He's coming in His Father's glory. (Matthew 16:27) So He'll be coming as God.

Besides, you'll know Him then; if you know Him now. I don't think there is a need to wait to know Jesus.

I know Christ now and I’ve recognised Him again when He returned.

Lo! The Father is come and that which Ye were promised in the kingdom has been fulfilled.
(Baha’u’llah’

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Many are the meanings to Kingdom, Throne. House, Temple etc.

That is just not how language works. There are usually several related definitions. You can't just use a word however you like. I can't, for example, say that a clown is a pot hole.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are changing it to a literal sense when you insist that the seat of power is a physical location on earth.

No, the literal meaning of throne is a fancy shmancy chair.

You are confusing the word figurative with abstract.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is just not how language works. There are usually several related definitions. You can't just use a word however you like. I can't, for example, say that a clown is a pot hole.

It is the way the Word of God works though.

Metaphor and symbolism are an intrinsic part of the Word of God. To name a couple;

Symbolisim
Jewish symbolism - Wikipedia

Pardes
Pardes (Jewish exegesis) - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is just not how language works. There are usually several related definitions. You can't just use a word however you like. I can't, for example, say that a clown is a pot hole.

I can say that G_d does not sit on a throne on earth and I see it would be insulting to even consider this to be so.

Thus it is up to you what you think the word 'throne' may mean.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

No, the literal meaning of throne is a fancy shmancy chair.

You are confusing the word figurative with abstract.

Why quibble over word meanings? You believe that David is going to rule from Jerusalem. I don't.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG thank you for your most kind remarks. I’ll take it as your Christmas present! So this is my gift to you.........

Recently this is what happened in my neck of the woods. A couple of beautiful Catholics I met from the Bicentenary brought 13 wonderful people to our home Tuesday. Eight adults and five children. It was a pot luck lunch. We had people from India, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Burma and Australia. Religions present were Muslim, Christian, Hindu and Baha’i. They asked me to talk and say a prayer so I selected a small portion of the prayer for humanity. “Unite all, let the religions agree and make the nations one........” so moving with a cross section of the human race present, so surround - east and west, black and white and different faiths all celebrating their common humanity as one said ‘so it should be.’

Then we had hours of laughter and food and cake and ice cream and chocolates with children playing. So full of love and joy and peace. The Hindu lady thanked us on behalf of everyone and we closed with the words “in the garden of thy heart plant naught but the rose of love”. Everyone was filled with joy at this complete oneness.


Now these beautiful Catholics are so, so humble and love all people and we will be going to church with them on Saturday and Christmas Eve at our request also as God is in all Churches not just ours. This was such a beautiful spirit I felt God had granted us all a glimpse of what our future world will be like where we will all be at one with one another even though we are from different races, religions and nations. A garden of paradise fits the description perfectly for that afternoon.

On Tuesday I experienced a beautiful world if even for a few hours of just plain old us without any them.

Of course even some Baha'is here make statements that are going to go against the beliefs of someone. So how can and should a Baha'i engage in a debate without ruffling feathers? Or, at least keep it friendly?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course even some Baha'is here make statements that are going to go against the beliefs of someone. So how can and should a Baha'i engage in a debate without ruffling feathers? Or, at least keep it friendly?

I think it depends on what the aim of the person is - to win the argument or to love the people. Our real work and it is a very massive job Is to unite hearts in friendship and love. The way I understand the oneness of mankind is that I am happy and content to be anyone’s true friend for life Baha’i or not who wants to be friends.

I’m willing to be friends with anyone for as long as they wish who’ll have me and put up with me. Lol! To me religion is NOT about converting and then moving onto the next person. It’s about being a friend to the whole human race.

So the struggle is to control ones ego and desire to WIN and replace it with the higher and much nobler sentiment of unconditional acceptance of every human being no matter what they do or don’t believe.

 

[Muffled]

Hes suppose to raise the dead from the ground. Sense so many people have been put to death with fire i think its impossible. Why would we want our old bodies anyways? Raise our spirits up just give us new bodies we dont need the old. Scripture makes no sense.

I believe Paul makes it clear that it is a new body. So yes scripture does make sense.

 

[Muffled]

I think it depends on what the aim of the person is - to win the argument or to love the people. Our real work and it is a very massive job Is to unite hearts in friendship and love. The way I understand the oneness of mankind is that I am happy and content to be anyone’s true friend for life Baha’i or not who wants to be friends.

I’m willing to be friends with anyone for as long as they wish who’ll have me and put up with me. Lol! To me religion is NOT about converting and then moving onto the next person. It’s about being a friend to the whole human race.

So the struggle is to control ones ego and desire to WIN and replace it with the higher and much nobler sentiment of unconditional acceptance of every human being no matter what they do or don’t believe.

I believe it is not love to allow a person to linger in self deception.