What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[IndigoChild5559]

It is up to us to decide what 'Throne' means, not to accept another idea from a book, unless that other Idea is from G_d in the other book.

Regards Tony

No it's not, Tony. You have to stick with regular definitions used by the dictionary for that language, or with the figurative meanings used by the culture that produced the writing (in this case it would be the Jews). You can't have another culture come centuries later (such as Bahais) and say, "forget the dictionaries and Jewish meanings. We are going to invent our own special meaning." It just doesn't work that way.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

To which I respond, that is the Throne I talk About, the Messiah has sat on that Throne. This is passage from Baha'u'llah, it makes it quite clear;

"....THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related.
At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: 'O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!'
THE Breath hath been wafted, and the Breeze hath blown, and from Zion hath appeared that which was hidden, and from Jerusalem is heard the Voice of God, the One, the Incomparable, the Omniscient.
LEND an ear unto the song of David. He saith: 'Who will bring me into the Strong City?' The Strong City is Akka, which hath been named the Most Great Prison, and which possesseth a fortress and mighty ramparts... Peruse that which Isaiah hath spoken in His Book. He saith: 'Get thee up into the high mountain, O Zion, that bringest good tidings; lift up thy voice with strength, O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings. Lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah: "Behold your God! Behold the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him."' This Day all the signs have appeared. A great City hath descended from heaven, and Zion trembleth and exulteth with joy at the Revelation of God, for it hath heard the Voice of God on every side....." Baha'u'llah : The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah

Of course, you can see it how you wish to. I have accepted what Baha'u'llah has offered.

Regards Tony

Tony, I've pretty much exhausted the discussion with Trailblazer already, and don't wish to reopen it. I'm just going to reiterate what I said, and you can take it or leave it, reply anything you like, have the last word, but I won't be responding.

The word throne has two meanings.
1. A fancy shmancy chair for royalty (and Davids literal throne no longer exists).
2. The seat of power for a ruler, which is in a given location. For example, the seat of power for the US Government is Washington DC. For Russia it is the Kremlin. For England it is London. For Israel, it is Jerusalem. This is the definition I'm using. IOW the location of the "throne of David" in this figurative sense is Jerusalem. The Baha'u'llah never sat in power there.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No it's not, Tony. You have to stick with regular definitions used by the dictionary for that language, or with the figurative meanings used by the culture that produced the writing (in this case it would be the Jews). You can't have another culture come centuries later (such as Bahais) and say, "forget the dictionaries and Jewish meanings. We are going to invent our own special meaning." It just doesn't work that way.

Sure you can have it work in any way you choose. I am not here to change your choices.

Luckily the world is full of other choices and I see G_d gives them all.

Regards Tony

 

[kjw47]

The second coming of Christ = Revelation 6--The ride of the white horse( war in heaven at Rev 6) Michael took the ride--Yet he receives his crown( only Jesus gets the crown)--Peace was taken from the earth= world war 1( 1914-1919) the generation that will see Jesus ride the white horse to earth at Har-mageddon. It must be close.

 

[CG Didymus]

The second coming of Christ = Revelation 6--The ride of the white horse( war in heaven at Rev 6) Michael took the ride--Yet he receives his crown( only Jesus gets the crown)--Peace was taken from the earth= world war 1( 1914-1919) the generation that will see Jesus ride the white horse to earth at Har-mageddon. It must be close.

What do JW's think of William Miller's calculations that put Christ returning in 1844? And related to that, the Baha'is saying the 1260 days in Revelation are the 1260 lunar years in the Islamic calendar that also point to 1844.

 

[CG Didymus]

A pure heart doesn’t mean a person is naive or gullible . All a pure heart means is that it can tell the difference between the real thing and a fake. The pure heart gravitates towards God not charisma.

As Jesus said ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God’. We understand that to “see God’ is to recognise His Manifestation.

Note that interpretations are guided by what is in a persons heart. The Pharisees saw ‘What good comes from Bethlehem ‘ so saw not Christ but the son of a carpenter.

Is Mormonism, Catholicism, JW-ism and the rest true, by Baha'i standards? No. Do some of them have "pure" hearts? Probably pure enough to be considered good people. And probably smart enough to know if what they believe is true or not, Yet, they don't know the truth, because they haven't recognized Baha'u'llah.

Their "pure" heart is to follow Jesus and the Bible... plus however their group interprets things.

What do JW's think of William Miller's calculations that put Christ returning in 1844? And related to that, the Baha'is saying the 1260 days in Revelation are the 1260 lunar years in the Islamic calendar that also point to 1844.

William Miller's followers could be considered naïve and gullible. But, they probably thought of themselves as having a pure heart. Plus, they used the prophecies to back up their beliefs. With their heart and mind, they believed Jesus was coming in 1844.

So now, what's wrong with Christians today? Not one has refuted those calculations. Have the Baha'is ever gotten a good answer as to why Christians don't believe Miller's calculations?

 

[kjw47]

What do JW's think of William Miller's calculations that put Christ returning in 1844? And related to that, the Baha'is saying the 1260 days in Revelation are the 1260 lunar years in the Islamic calendar that also point to 1844.

The quotes in rev 6 = ww1--- And peace will be taken from the earth it says in Rev 6= a world war not a single war. It says-He receives his crown--Michael took the ride at Rev 6-- Only Jesus is getting the crown. It was the war in heaven( ride of the white horse = righteous war.) Satan and his angels lost and were cast to the earth. Coming angry, knowing his time is short. The ride continues and only stops after Jesus rides the white horse to earth at Har-mageddon. The generation mentioned in Rev 6 will see Har-mageddon. It is 100 years old now. We are at the end of these last days.
Look at this world, it is falling apart quickly. Gods kingdom is the ONLY remaining hope.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is Mormonism, Catholicism, JW-ism and the rest true, by Baha'i standards? No. Do some of them have "pure" hearts? Probably pure enough to be considered good people. And probably smart enough to know if what they believe is true or not, Yet, they don't know the truth, because they haven't recognized Baha'u'llah.

Their "pure" heart is to follow Jesus and the Bible... plus however their group interprets things.

William Miller's followers could be considered naïve and gullible. But, they probably thought of themselves as having a pure heart. Plus, they used the prophecies to back up their beliefs. With their heart and mind, they believed Jesus was coming in 1844.

So now, what's wrong with Christians today? Not one has refuted those calculations. Have the Baha'is ever gotten a good answer as to why Christians don't believe Miller's calculations?

I believe Christians mostly to be good sincere people who believe in the truth.

Of Christians Baha’u’llah has said, regardless of denomination, .....

He (Jesus)it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.(Jesus)


Anyone who has turned to Jesus is, according to Baha’u’llah, blessed so they have attained to all good.

 

[Muffled]

That sounds like you approve of the explanations given in the Quran.

Well done.

Regards Tony

I believe he Qu'ran doesn't have explanations but I do agree with what it says. Too bad the Muslims don't. I don't imagine the Bahais do any better.

 

[Muffled]

Generally speaking... Jews interpret their Scriptures one way. Christians interpret the Hebrew Bible in a way to make their NT the truth. And Baha'is interpret everybody's Scriptures to fit into their beliefs. So nothing is really totally based on Scripture, but it takes some interpretation.

So every other religion is false, and only your interpretation of the Bible is correct? Well good, then what is the correct interpretation of Revelation. That way we can all know what to look for.

I believe everyone should take note of what Isaiah said considering Rev 7:9.

Isa. 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD;
my soul shall exult in my God,
for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation;
he has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress,
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth brings forth its sprouts,
and as a garden causes what is sown in it to sprout up,
so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise
to sprout up before all the nations.

 

[Muffled]

God is Spirit and eternal. Christ is Spirit and immortal.

Just as the Pharisees denied Him so do Christians deny Him now although very clearly it says in Revelation He will be called by a new name and Jeremiah 49:38 ‘I will set my throne in Elam’ which is Persia the birth place of Baha’u’llah. We can deny like the Pharisees or be humble like the disciples.

He didn’t say to watch if there wasn’t the possibility of missing His appearance.

Expectations that God will meet our demands is not being humble before God but proud.

Pride in human learning always turns man away from God.

I believe he is also flesh and that is immortal now also.

I believe that is false.

I believe that follows right after talking about the New Jerusalem which has not yet arrived.

I believe the act that he is born shows that he is not Jesus.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe he is also flesh and that is immortal now also.

I believe that is false.

I believe that follows right after talking about the New Jerusalem which has not yet arrived.

I believe the act that he is born shows that he is not Jesus.

Thanks for sharing that.

We Baha’is believe that the new Jerusalem is a new Revelation from God and that the new name refers to Baha’u’llah- the Glory of God translated into English.

Just one question. To you which sect is true Christianity because there are about 40,000 sects so which one do you believe is the true one?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What do JW's think of William Miller's calculations that put Christ returning in 1844? And related to that, the Baha'is saying the 1260 days in Revelation are the 1260 lunar years in the Islamic calendar that also point to 1844.

Do you know how many many different dates JWs have proposed? And they have all been wrong.

 

[1213]

What are your thoughts? Will it be a magical event with angels in the sky with Christ riding on the clouds with all true believers being taken up to heaven and people rising from their graves?...

I believe it goes like this:

For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man…… But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other… … But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only…
Matt. 24:27-42

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe it goes like this:

For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man…… But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other… … But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only…
Matt. 24:27-42

It’s interesting that in His Book of Certitude which it is said ‘broke the seals’ of the Book, Baha’u’llah interprets word for word most of that very passage. That is why I am absolutely convinced that He has returned.

Baha’u’llah said that such language was deliberately used to test and distinguish the sincere from the insincere. Christians were told to ‘ watch and pray’ not sit and expect to automatically see Him. Watching and praying means an effort must be made to see Him not that one will be automatically saved. Otherwise the thief will come and go and there will be those that get left behind and miss His coming completely.

The Baha’i Faith began in 1844. William Spicer, a Christian scholar recognised this date as the fulfillment of Daniels prophecy regarding the cleansing of the sanctuary in his book Our Day in the Light of Prophecy.


“From 457 b.c., when the commandment of Artaxerxes to restore Jerusalem went forth, the measuring line of the 2300 years reaches to the year A.D. 1844. In that year the time of the prophecy came. Then the cleansing of the sanctuary was to begin.”


Our Day / In the Light of Prophecy
William Ambrose Spicer

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is some of what I believe, and many Baha’is believe, the Second Coming looked like from a Christian viewpoint and non Baha’i view. All the quotes below are from Christian scholars. Baha’is just put one and one together and many, many other fulfilled signs and it all made complete sense to us. Like a great jigsaw puzzle all the pieces just fell into place.


Many prophecies pointing to the return of Christ, many biblical scholars agreed, pointed to the year 1844 from many directions.

First the Jews were given permission to return home and not be persecuted. A prophecy of Christ.

Worth Smith, a Christian scholar of his time stated in his book Miracle of the Age.. .

“In the year of A.D. 1844, to cite one specific case that is intimately connected with the Church, the Mohammedans, under the leadership of Turkey, were compelled by the Western Powers, notably England, to grant religious toleration to all within their borders to those who were Christians as well as to those of other faiths”

Miracle of the Age: The Great Pyramid of Gizeh
Worth Smith

Another prophecy is that ‘knowledge would increase ‘

Again Worth Smith points out that all humanity’s advancements have come since which year? Read on...

“Now by the process of peering into the history of the everyday appliances and aids to more comfortable and better living as we have them to-day it is found that almost the whole lot of the discoveries and inventions in common usage have come into existence since the year of 1844.

Miracle of the Age: The Great Pyramid of Gizeh
Worth Smith

These are Christian scholars not Baha’i who recognised the signs of the times.

William Spicer actually speaks of such inventions again when?

“It was in 1844 that the first long-distance system was successfully demonstrated—when the historic message was sent from Baltimore to Washington, "What hath God wrought!" Now news of events fulfilling prophecy, and news of progress and conditions in all lands, are daily spread before the world by this agency of our wonderful time.”


Our Day / In the Light of Prophecy
William Ambrose Spicer

Then there is the star fall of 1833 as Christ had predicted would happen before His return.

“The stars shall fall from heaven." Matt. 24:29.”

This has a twofold meaning both literal and symbolical. Actual ‘signs in the heavens’ accompanied Christ’s first coming as they would His second but the other meaning is that the stars, the clergy, of heaven - religion- would - fall upon the earth - become materialistic and they did fall into materialistic pursuits.

Of the star fall of 1833 the New York Journal states:


“No philosopher or scholar has told or recorded an event like that of yesterday morning. A prophet eighteen hundred years ago foretold it exactly, if we will be at the trouble of understanding stars falling to mean falling stars."—New York Journal of Commerce, Nov. 14, 1833.”


Our Day / In the Light of Prophecy and praying’.
William Ambrose Spicer

There is the dark day and earthquakes. These signs have already come to pass but as many have not studied these things many still await Christ’s return. Christ said to watch and pray. These signs I believe are ample proof but like the days of Jesus and to this day there are those that still refuse to believe in His first coming no matter what proofs are presented.

To me and many Baha’is, this is some of what the return of Christ looked like. These signs have already appeared as was recorded by Christian scholars not Baha’is but to those who are uninformed of these past events they still await theses signs to occur again.

It is humbly suggested that ‘dispassionately and objectively’ Christians examine with an open mind what actually happened during that period.

Matthew 24:44

the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you know how many many different dates JWs have proposed? And they have all been wrong.

Do you know that no Baha'i had to predict any date, some Christians had already settled upon a year which history has shown, did have foundations in Truth.

Thus the event was what everyone awaits for, or it is not. It is True, or it is False. It is from God, or not from God.

I have made my choice. It was a right choice, or some may say it is the wrong choice.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Do you know how many many different dates JWs have proposed? And they have all been wrong.

The dates that Miller used are from Daniel and point to 1844 as the year that Christ would return. I do believe that there's some number in there that, for Christians, point to when Jesus, the supposed Messiah, was to come.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you know that no Baha'i had to predict any date, some Christians had already settled upon a year which history has shown, did have foundations in Truth.

Thus the event was what everyone awaits for, or it is not. It is True, or it is False. It is from God, or not from God.

I have made my choice. It was a right choice, or some may say it is the wrong choice.

Regards Tony

I just find it hillarious that you choose as "your choice" one of the great many many errors of the JW's.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The dates that Miller used are from Daniel and point to 1844 as the year that Christ would return. I do believe that there's some number in there that, for Christians, point to when Jesus, the supposed Messiah, was to come.

So? And when Jesus didn't come then, the JW's went on to propose umpteen other dates that were equally false. It's hilarious. And very sad that you actually use one of their failures as a source to back yourselves up with.