What would a reformed Islam look like?

[LuisDantas]

@interminable

If it is such a difficult task to correctly interpret the Qur'an, it seems reasonable to ask why it is worth the trouble at all.

People seem to make no worse without it, after all.

I don't think there is a lot of truth to be found in your claim that the blame for the troubles of Islaam comes ultimately from the US and other "foreigners". It is not like the Islaamic world has a significant tradition of avoiding inner conflict.

Sure, there is no doubt that the US and others took advantage of those conflicts when the opportunity presented itself. But despite all the insistence of the Qur'an on the need to avoid conflict between Muslims, the plain fact is that Muslims keep killing other Muslims practically from the moment Muhammad died - albeit often insisting that the others are not true Muslims, as we now see with Daesh/ISIS.

 

[paarsurrey]

For a reformed Islam, much of the Koran and the lifestyle of the Prophet Muhammad would have to be considered outdated and straight up inhumane and sick.

But prostrating and praying five times a day, modesty, fasting during Ramadan, and pilgrimage to Mecca would stay the same. The primary practices and pillars of Islam I find to be beautiful, it is the form of Government (Sharia law) and some of the verses in the Koran and the lifestyle of the Prophet and early Muslims I find disturbing.

The part colored in magenta is the essence of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
No specific form of government has been prescribed by Quran/Islam. Any form of government that is equitable and provides features of justice as mentioned in Quran is good enough.
Please
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

That's way we say a person should be expert and knowledgeable to be able to find god's order
This will be harder when a verse is about jurisprudence

So you're saying it takes an expert to find God's order in a book that is entirely God's inerrant word? Hmm...

Look
There are lots of stupid Muslims namely wahabi they are mere puppet of US they use Qur'an as they wish. Their place would be in hell as both Shia scholars and sunny in university of alazhar in Egypt said wahabi isn't a religion belongs to prophet muhammad pbuh

I won't get into sectarian arguments; to me they're a pointless distraction. What you've said here doesn't in any way counter or even address the fact that your own government violently oppresses people & actively discriminates against religious minorities using Islam as a justification. At best this is merely a tuquoque fallacy 'they do it too!', at worst it's using your ideological enemy's actions as a benchmark for your society's behaviour which is hypocritical to say the least.

Nope
They can be for testing belivers and in other cases show the eloquence of quran and more importantly can be used as a virtue for Ali pbuh in one case.

Besides that's why I say there is a need to be expert to understand which verse is abrogated or....

But if a verse is abrogated then it has been superseded, correct? This would mean it no longer applies and the Quran is not the inerrant word of God because parts of it are no longer true.

U think we chose this way 40 years ago
Nope this is a way of Shia jurisprudence from the beginning

I did, actually. Fair enough - I thought it was a recent thing.

Even for hadith there is a need of experts
For example Bahaie sect use some Hadithes that we won't never accept but they easily use them to prove themselves

It's kind of strange that Muslims will happily accept that different groups do this with ahadith but when it comes to the Quran they don't want to hear that their might be differing interpretations.

Philosophy is one of them. history , Arabic language and logic jurisprudence and ...are among them.

What exactly is "logic jurisprudence"? Never heard of that popping up in Western philosophy where logic started.

The person can convert to other religion but he or she shouldn't say that in public
Those who say their conversion publicly will be punished.
So they can hide their new religion or travel to other countries

So basically they have to pretend to be Muslim to falsely inflate the country's Muslim demographic and they're not allowed to practise their religion openly because they'll be punished if they do.

I just made an example.

You did? Huh. I must have missed it.

So u want god to abolished slavery while the enemies of Islam hadn't abolish that
How strange!!

I don't think it's a lot to ask that the 'complete, perfect & true religion' to be ahead of us kuffar on moral issues. How many times have we heard that Allah is perfect? If so it shouldn't be a problem for him to point out when something is wrong and tell his followers to do something about it. Slavery is obviously wrong for the sheer amount of harm it causes; why did Islam tolerate such an evil in its presence?

Besides they could be familiar with Islam and Muslims so convert to Islam.

Or they could be familiar with Islam and Muslims and realise how utterly dangerous the faith is. That's a double-edged sword, unfortunately.

 

[IndigoStorm]

The Baha'i Faith.

For a start treat females like human beings and not simply as incubators. Also stop telling suicide bombers that 72 virgins are waiting for them in paradise ...

 

[Notanumber]

For a start treat females like human beings and not simply as incubators. Also stop telling suicide bombers that 72 virgins are waiting for them in paradise ...

They have been conned about that. It is actually 72 grapes.

https://www.amazon.com/What-Modern-Martyr-Should-Know-ebook/dp/B00903HTIE

I wonder if they are sour ones as well!

 

[sovietchild]

My area of the world is perfectly glorious. It's a natural wonderland and there are a lot of atheists here.
So, yeah, it does work out just fine.

What area of the world are you chatting about that is perfectly glorious? Are we chatting about our earth here? Perfectly glorious to sustain life?

 

[YmirGF]

What area of the world are you chatting about that is perfectly glorious? Are we chatting about our earth here? Perfectly glorious to sustain life?

I live in the Pacific North West which is, arguably, one of the most beautiful areas on the planet.
Vancouver, BC, Canada was my hometown for the first 52 years...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[icehorse]

one of the most beautiful areas on the planet

Beautiful indeed, we hope to be moving there soon!

 

[icehorse]

A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring.

So...

- Thinking that Muhammad was a good role model would be up for debate.
- Thinking that the Quran is the word of god would be an act of faith, not a thing to kill or die for.

 

[YmirGF]

Beautiful indeed, we hope to be moving there soon!

I would certainly welcome you to paradise.

 

[paarsurrey]

A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring.

So...

- Thinking that Muhammad was a good role model would be up for debate.
- Thinking that the Quran is the word of god would be an act of faith, not a thing to kill or die for.

There is no harm in sincere critical thinking.
Quran/Islam/Muhammad did critical analysis of other faiths truthfully.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring.

So...

- Thinking that Muhammad was a good role model would be up for debate.
- Thinking that the Quran is the word of god would be an act of faith, not a thing to kill or die for.

Faith could be defended reasonably with good arguments and Quran/Islam/Muhammad did provide such arguments.
Even Atheism and the likes are based on faith while these are not declared as formal religions.
Right? Please
Regards

 

[Sonofason]

So alot of people think Islam as a religion needs to be reformed to be brought more in line with liberal and secular values.

But what does a reformed Islam actually look like in your view? What are the most significant steps that Muslims could take to show that they can genuinely change their religion for the better? Is this simply about changing perceptions of Islam or are there substantive changes that you feel need to come from from within the Islamic Community?

E.g. Tolerance of homosexuality, changes in attitudes to women's rights, religious tolerance for non-muslims, apostates and atheists, etc.

Maybe just stop chopping off peoples heads?

 

[paarsurrey]

A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring.

So...

- Thinking that Muhammad was a good role model would be up for debate.
- Thinking that the Quran is the word of god would be an act of faith, not a thing to kill or die for.

No harm about discussing that.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring.

So...

- Thinking that Muhammad was a good role model would be up for debate.
- Thinking that the Quran is the word of god would be an act of faith, not a thing to kill or die for.

To start with it could be a matter of faith, and then when experience its teachings correct and positively fruitful, it becomes more than that.
Regards

 

[psychoslice]

It would be peaceful, there would be no one being stoned to death, heads off, homosexuals thrown of buildings................we wouldn't even be here discussing it.

 

[icehorse]

Quran/Islam/Muhammad did critical analysis of other faiths truthfully.

Hi paarsurrey, when did that happen?

Faith could be defended reasonably with good arguments and Quran/Islam/Muhammad did provide such arguments.
Even Atheism and the likes are based on faith while these are not declared as formal religions.

Faith claims cannot be proven. Atheism is not based on faith.

 

[paarsurrey]

↑"A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring."

Hi paarsurrey, when did that happen?

Quran makes critical analysis of Torah, the Jewish scripture and of NT, the scripture of the Christians.
Just read Quran, Please
Regards

 

[icehorse]

↑"A reformed Islam would value critical thinking and acknowledge that faith cannot be defended or argued logically. Faith is just faith - it's not logical. With that as a start, all sorts of shifts might start occurring."

Quran makes critical analysis of Torah, the Jewish scripture and of NT, the scripture of the Christians.
Just read Quran, Please
Regards

I've read the Quran, several translations in fact. The people who wrote the Quran came into the project with a biased perspective, not an impartial, critical thinking perspective. They had an agenda when they started.

 

[paarsurrey]

What would a reformed Islam look like?

It would be reasonable and peaceful as the Ahmadiyya Islam is. Right? Please
Regards

The beauty of this reformation by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is that he has given no new core teachings, he just takes us back to the time of Muhammad when Quran was revealed and lets us understand the truth mentioned in it , which is relevant to our times as it was then .
One could differ with me with good reasons and arguments if any.
Regards