What would convince you of God's existence?

[WanderingSoul]

To prove that God (or "God") exists, all you have to do is directly experience the obvious and just leave it as being such. [Clipped from Nowhereman]

I did a big clip from your last post; which, by the way, was rather thoughtful and philosophical. Even though I could not grasp all of what you were trying to say, I got the gist of it. It's refreshing to talk with someone who is willing to make an effort greater than a fancy quip, or a funny one-liner.

I clipped this one line above because it goes to the heart of the matter, for me. You said, "...all you have to do is directly experience the obvious and just leave it as being such."

Well, I agree with you. I'll go further, and say that there is only one way to know God: Personal experience. The miracle of revelation is the only way for one to know God, and I feel quite sure of this. In a revelation, God is known as self-evident truth; and that pretty much agrees with what you said above. There never will be an argument, or scientific proof God. If we are searching for a universal consciousness--a sentient being--then one must experience that sentience, not merely surmise its existence. And any God that was less than that--sentient--would be indistinguishable from nature, I say, and therefore unknowable. I could be wrong.

We can not discover God--God reveals itself to one; and that revelation--I declare--is a gift from God.

We can all drool over a delicious proof of God by the world's leading scientists, but unless that God grants us at least a convincing "hello," the proof will be worth no more than the paper it's printed on.

In an earlier post you said that what would convice you of God's existence would be if everyone was instantly converted to theism. (I'm paraphrasing) I'm not happy with my previous response to that post of yours. So let me offer this:

How would everyone know that they know God exists? How could they prove to themselves that they were true in the belief?

 

[ninerbuff]

Put a person with no arms and legs in front of me, have people pray to god for the arms and legs to "grow out" into place, and within a few minutes I see it happen right before my eyes.

If that happened, how could you doubt?

 

[WanderingSoul]

Nothing of the visual world exists to a blind man, as does nothing of the world of sound exist to a deaf man. Try explaining colour to a man who has never seen.

Things only exist to us because we have the organs to sense them with, what should make us doubt the existance of something we couldn't understand.

In regard to that last line, we have very little understanding of all we detect with our senses. Really, we are all infinitely stupid in our understanding. Yet, few but the insane would deny that existence exists, for example. It has not been proven beyond doubt how the universe came to be, but that fact does not cause us to deny its existence.

More specifically, in regard to God's existence...

I don't think a person needs to understand all that God was, is, or ever will be before they can know of God's existence. I know diddly of my neighbor's dog, but I can assure you, it exists every night at about midnight when I'm trying to sleep. If my neighbor's dog can make me aware of its existence, then so could a creator being make me aware of ITS existence.

The question I have is, what would convince one that God exists? I've said that a divinely caused revelation is the only means of knowing for certain of God's existence. But that's not enough for me. What would be the nature of such an experience? and how can the person who has had such an experience know that it was truly caused by god? How do they prove it to theirself?

 

[WanderingSoul]

Put a person with no arms and legs in front of me, have people pray to god for the arms and legs to "grow out" into place, and within a few minutes I see it happen right before my eyes.

If that happened, how could you doubt?

Gosh, you're sooo demanding.

But let me ask a serious question:

Why do you perceive that event as proof of God? It seems to be an argument from ignorance, to me. You saw people pray, and then an event that seems to defy logical explanation occurs. Great! But how does that prove the existence of a supreme being?

Some might argue that the real healing event was caused by the good-will of the prayers. Or that the person healed theirself.

My feeling is this: You seem to be trying to solve the mystery of one miracle by introducing another miracle: The miracle of God's existence.

But really, you haven't solved anything, you only made the problem more difficult.

 

[PolyHedral]

Put a person with no arms and legs in front of me, have people pray to god for the arms and legs to "grow out" into place, and within a few minutes I see it happen right before my eyes.

If that happened, how could you doubt?

Easily: it was nanomachines!

 

[WanderingSoul]

Does it actually matter? It might not be the Christian God, but it can make big booming voices from the sky!

The question is, how does the person know for sure that the voice is truly from God? You said later that the voice has to answer questions to be recognized as Gods, to paraphrase your words.

Let's run with this thing of yours. I'm interested to hear what kind of questions need to be answered before one can know the voice to be of God.

Really, I don't understand why God has to be limited to "verbal" communication to reveal its existence. We humans have developed so many different forms of communication with each other and the animal world; so why should the god of the universe be technologically handicapped? It seems so implausible to me.

 

[emptybe]

Honestly I don't know what, if anything, could convince me it's really God. :sorry1:

 

[WanderingSoul]

Honestly I don't know what, if anything, could convince me it's really God. :sorry1:

Scenario: Let's say you have cancer, and the doctor tells you, "You have one week to live."

Fortunately you are a spiritual person, and so you pray to God for healing. In the middle of the night, a beautiful, shimmering light wakens you and telepathically speaks:

"I am God, and I have heard your prayer. You are healed."

You then feel a surge of energy throughout your cancerous region, and guess what? you're healed! The doctor declares it a medical miracle.

Would you believe in God then? and if yes, then how do you know that the experience was truly of God? How do you prove that divine miracle to yourself and others?

 

[emptybe]

Scenario: Let's say you have cancer, and the doctor tells you, "You have one week to live."

Fortunately you are a spiritual person, and so you pray to God for healing. In the middle of the night, a beautiful, shimmering light wakens you and telepathically speaks:

"I am God, and I have heard your prayer. You are healed."

You then feel a surge of energy throughout your cancerous region, and guess what? you're healed! The doctor declares it a medical miracle.

Would you believe in God then? and if yes, then how do you know that the experience was truly of God? How do you prove that divine miracle to yourself and others?

Might make me think but it could of just been a dream and the energy of my prayer actually healed me.

 

[WanderingSoul]

Might make me think but it could of just been a dream and the energy of my prayer actually healed me.

Exactly.

So what's the answer? If such an intimate experience, that even defies medical explanation cannot convince one of God's existence, Then what hope is there?

How does the human brain reach the mountain top of total acceptance of God's existence? where they know, that they know...that they know...

Is it even possible for our brains to comprehend the reality of God's existence?

(I believe it is possible, I'm just asking)

 

[Penumbra]

If there existed a god that cared one way or another whether I believed in it, then I would believe in it. It wouldn't be a difficult matter. It could tailor an appropriate set of proofs to fit each individual person.

A god that wants people to believe in it but does this bad of a job making itself known is pretty weak and likely shouldn't be given the title of a god. A god capable of making itself known but for whatever reason doesn't feel like it is fine I guess, but the question becomes less relevant.

 

[cottage]

I'm short on time today, but I still want to start a new thread with these 2 questions:

What would you consider proof of God's existence?

And...

Do you believe that your "proof" would convince the majority of rational thinking people?

Thanks!

Proof? My reply is simply this: ‘for God to prove his existence to me’. No further explication is necessary on my part. What possible evidence might count as proof is not for me to say, since it is not for me to describe how God might go about convincing me he exists. Evidence of x is by no means the necessary equal of proof, but where we have proof of x we have the required evidence for x. My argumenttakes this form:God doesn’t have to exist, but may exist. If God exists he may be omnipotent. If God exists and is omnipotent then at no time is he not omnipotent for then he would not be God. If God exists and is omnipotent he must be able to prove his existence, for otherwise he would not be omnipotent and he could not be God. Therefore an omnipotent God must be able to prove his existence. It doesn’t follow from the above that God must prove his existence, only that he must have that ability, for to say otherwise would contradict his omnipotence.

It may of course be the case that God, for reasons of his own, doesn’t choose to prove his existence to me. Nevertheless, having assented to unconditionally accept proof, it is now for God to show me unequivocally that he exists. But even if the proof is entirely sufficient for me to belief in God, it doesn’t follow from my belief that ‘God exists’ is true.

 

[Thief]

All these postings...and yet....the universe is moving.

Nothing moves without cause.

The singularity went 'bang' for nothing?

 

[Onkara]

If there existed a god that cared one way or another whether I believed in it, then I would believe in it. It wouldn't be a difficult matter. It could tailor an appropriate set of proofs to fit each individual person.

A god that wants people to believe in it but does this bad of a job making itself known is pretty weak and likely shouldn't be given the title of a god. A god capable of making itself known but for whatever reason doesn't feel like it is fine I guess, but the question becomes less relevant.

One explanation is that God is playing a form of 'Hide and Seek'. God is here but hidden, She hides so that you go out in search for Her, or deny Her or say She doesn't exist. Because God is omnipresent, omnipresent and omnipotent the game serves just for Her entertainment. It makes for a good search if She seems to not exist. God also reveals Herself to conclude the game or for the game to take on a fresh angle, a new 'level'.

 

[1AOA1]

One explanation is that God is playing a form of 'Hide and Seek'. God is here but hidden, She hides so that you go out in search for Her, or deny Her or say She doesn't exist. Because God is omnipresent, omnipresent and omnipotent the game serves just for Her entertainment. It makes for a good search if She seems to not exist. God also reveals Herself to conclude the game or for the game to take on a fresh angle, a new 'level'.

So it's a hider playing games?

 

[jmvizanko]

All these postings...and yet....the universe is moving.

Nothing moves without cause.

The singularity went 'bang' for nothing?

And god does not need a cause why exactly?

 

[chinu]

What would you consider proof of God's existence?

Similarly somebody asked, What would you consider the proof of your True Father's existence ? (means truly who is your father, how will you proove)

The answer was, we can match the D N A test.

Similarly in case of "God" we can match the D N A which is called "LOVE",
God is "Love" and we all are drop of that "Love".

But how can we test there is "Love" inside us ?

Don't you "Love" anything or anybody !!! ?

Do you believe that your "proof" would convince the majority of rational thinking people?

This is fresh,
So, Now! what do you think rational thinking people ?

_/\_Chinu.

 

[Onkara]

So it's a hider playing games?

God, yes. Because God created mankind. Creator and creation are always linked, so in order to hide that connecting link the hide and seek game is afoot. We are always searching for a way back home, back to our origin: God (or call it what you will).

 

[Nerthus]

We are always searching for a way back home, back to our origin: God (or call it what you will).

All we know is this life and this world. I have never gone out searching for a way back home, but I don't know what that is.

Life is now, and that is all we know. I don't want to waste the time I have searching for a way back.

 

[Onkara]

All we know is this life and this world. I have never gone out searching for a way back home, but I don't know what that is.

Life is now, and that is all we know. I don't want to waste the time I have searching for a way back.

I wasn't implying that God is different from life, there is no duality. If you are not searching then you will find you are already home.