What would it take for you to change your faith to another?

[anonymous9887]

Well, it doesn't state it outright , though. It does not actually equate satan to the serpent in the Garden. so, could it be? Yes. Could it be a coincidence? Yes.

OK your right. But now what other serpents are mentioned in the bible, and what else could original serpent signify? Because we believe scripture interprets scripture.

 

[anonymous9887]

Well, it doesn't state it outright , though. It does not actually equate satan to the serpent in the Garden. so, could it be? Yes. Could it be a coincidence? Yes.

And actually if you go to the greek, it uses original, primitive is they key to identifying, is the more accurate.

 

[Desert Snake]

OK your right. But now what other serpents are mentioned in the bible, and what else could original serpent signify? Because we believe scripture interprets scripture.

It's a good question. When it says ''original'', we get to thinking of Genesis, however, the description of the serpent in the Garden, is hardly describing a being such as Satan.

 

[anonymous9887]

It's a good question. When it says ''original'', we get to thinking of Genesis, however, the description of the serpent in the Garden, is hardly describing a being such as Satan.

Well the greek word means original, primitive, ancient. And it's not like it's the serpent that committed the action, satan may have used the serpent or materialized as a serpent. Kind of like the serpent was the fallen angels instrument.

 

[Cephus]

Lol
I guess predicting cities getting taken over by a specific city before it happens is blind faith ok.
Isaiah 40:22 circle or sphere
Job 26:7 the earth hangs on nothing.
Job 9:8 I believe says you spread (Continually). As proven by science the universe continually expands.
LOL
Have a good day.

You need to go look at the ancient Hebrew conception of the universe, all of which fits the above, but is not at all representative of reality. When you understand the actual history of things, you don't fall for religious interpretations.

 

[anonymous9887]

You need to go look at the ancient Hebrew conception of the universe, all of which fits the above, but is not at all representative of reality. When you understand the actual history of things, you don't fall for religious interpretations.

Just because certain humans and the rebellious israelites at that, interpreted, or understood gods word in one way does not mean they are correct, the men that wrote these passages just jotted down what God wanted them too. If people decide to build their own theologies fine but it must all come from the bible. God is the revealer of secrets.

 

[Cephus]

Just because certain humans and the rebellious israelites at that, interpreted, or understood gods word in one way does not mean they are correct, the men that wrote these passages just jotted down what God wanted them too. If people decide to build their own theologies fine but it must all come from the bible. God is the revealer of secrets.

Yeah? Where is your evidence for that? And no, blind faith doesn't count. Your position is looking more and more foolish the more you talk.

 

[anonymous9887]

Yeah? Where is your evidence for that? And no, blind faith doesn't count. Your position is looking more and more foolish the more you talk.

Then answer how could the writer possibly know that the universe continually expands, and that the earth is circular and hangs on nothing? There were plenty of popular beliefs in their time, why didn't they write those ideas down?
Their is nothing in the bible that supports the ideas of the image you brought up of the Hebrew conception of the universe, none or please show me.

 

[Cephus]

Then answer how could the writer possibly know that the universe continually expands, and that the earth is circular and hangs on nothing? There were plenty of popular beliefs in their time, why didn't they write those ideas down?
Their is nothing in the bible that supports the ideas of the image you brought up of the Hebrew conception of the universe, none or please show me.

I already pointed out why they thought that way, that was their view of the world and their view of the world was wrong. But instead of accepting that they had a view of the world that was wrong, you are picking and choosing parts of the Bible that say things that can be applied to a modern view, while entirely ignoring the parts that cannot. That is blatantly dishonest on your part.

Something tells me you need to go look at actual Hebrew history. There's more to it than what's in the Bible.

 

[Akivah]

There simply is not anything to change your faith to another,why are you making this thread busy for nothing?

I'm correcting your error. And I don't need your permission to post to this thread.

 

[Akivah]

So you guys don't believe in the angel that disobeyed Yahweh? Who do you guys believe is the one who deceived Adam and eve?

Angels are not able to disobey G-d. All angels, including the satan, obey G-d to the fullest.

A talking snake spoke to Eve in Eden.

 

[Norman]

So then you must believe you have all 100% truth, and have figured out the scriptures.

Norman: Hi Paul, I was a Jew before I joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints. I have been a member of this Church now for 35 years. I believe
my Church teaches what is enough truth for me to keep me as a member all these years. I am assuming you are referring to the Bible? For awhile all I read was
the Old Testament. I now have been reading the whole bible for thirty five years. The great thing about reading the scriptures is that I get something new out of
them, every time I read them. I also read the Book of Mormon of which helps me to understand the Bible and the Bible to help me understand the Book of Mormon.
I believe this answered your OP?

 

[Saint_of_Me]

Incorrect. The Hebrew meaning is actually "accuser" or "hinderer".



This is not true of Judaism.

Really?

But "ha-satan" cum "Satan" is FROM the Torah!

That is, the Jewish Bible.

So, remind me again how this is not a part of Judaism?

And, there is this..............http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/do-jews-believe-in-demons/

 

[Saint_of_Me]

In all reality I think that the major factor in changing your beliefs is a sincere open mind. Not someone that says he is, but in reality he just wants to win debates and argue. Someone that says I'm comfortable with what I believe, but I'm open to listening because of the fact that my views could be wrong. It's all a person's heart condition.

Yeah, man, I'm all for having an open mind.

It's just that I don't want to have it so far open that my brains fall out.

Which seems to me to be the requisite in order to believe some of the absurdities that are so prolific in the Bible.

You know....tripe like this.....http://www.ranker.com/list/top-20-bible-passages-to-use-against-fundamentalists/ivana-wynn

 

[anonymous9887]

Norman: Hi Paul, I was a Jew before I joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day saints. I have been a member of this Church now for 35 years. I believe
my Church teaches what is enough truth for me to keep me as a member all these years. I am assuming you are referring to the Bible? For awhile all I read was
the Old Testament. I now have been reading the whole bible for thirty five years. The great thing about reading the scriptures is that I get something new out of
them, every time I read them. I also read the Book of Mormon of which helps me to understand the Bible and the Bible to help me understand the Book of Mormon.
I believe this answered your OP?

Yes you said nothing can change your faith. But so I'm assuming you have done a lot of research on the mormans.
Have you looked into the new findings regarding the book of Abraham?

 

[anonymous9887]

Yeah, man, I'm all for having an open mind.

It's just that I don't want to have it so far open that my brains fall out.

Which seems to me to be the requisite in order to believe some of the absurdities that are so prolific in the Bible.

You know....tripe like this.....http://www.ranker.com/list/top-20-bible-passages-to-use-against-fundamentalists/ivana-wynn

Like I was mentioning to a guy on this thread isaiah finished in 730 B.C. which is widely accepted by scholars. How is it possible that he made predictions regarding Cyrus and babylon taking over many cities and the book specifies which ones. Also isaiah 40:22 the earth a circle or sphere Job 26:7 the earth hangs on nothing another passage in job chapter 9 says the heavens keep expanding.
How would these men know, and why would they put these things while there was many popular beliefs in their time?
Someone had to give them this information.

 

[Cephus]

Yeah, man, I'm all for having an open mind.

It's just that I don't want to have it so far open that my brains fall out.

Which seems to me to be the requisite in order to believe some of the absurdities that are so prolific in the Bible.

You know....tripe like this.....http://www.ranker.com/list/top-20-bible-passages-to-use-against-fundamentalists/ivana-wynn

I love how the theists want atheists to have an open mind when they refuse to do so. We have to be open to them being right, they are absolutely not open to being wrong themselves.

 

[anonymous9887]

I love how the theists want atheists to have an open mind when they refuse to do so. We have to be open to them being right, they are absolutely not open to being wrong themselves.

We are definitely open, like a said a prediction from isaiah saying that Cyrus would take over babylon is a good prediction over 100 yrs in advance, as well as Egypt and Assyria were also predicted and accurate and so was greece and the Roman Empire predicted. But no that means nothing. Lol

 

[Saint_of_Me]

I love how the theists want atheists to have an open mind when they refuse to do so. We have to be open to them being right, they are absolutely not open to being wrong themselves.

LOL....I agree. Like the religious zealots and biblical fundamentalists who have no proof of ANYthing outside of their bible, and then they run back to it and claim "It must be so cause my bible tells me it is!!"

Wow.

I am continually amazed how many simply ignore us when we show them scientific proof that refutes their beliefs. Like the Young Earthers, saying ALL those hundreds of different types of radio-metric dating methods that show the Earth to be Billions of years old are WRONG. (never mind that, if they are all wrong, how is it that they agree with each other on the ages? Instead of being all over the place like something that was truly inaccurate and faulty would be.)

 

[Akivah]

But "ha-satan" cum "Satan" is FROM the Torah!

You are quoting, but are incorrectly translating. You stated correctly, that the Hebrew text reads ha-satan. But then incorrectly translated that Hebrew phrase as a name (Satan). The Hebrew phrase actually translates as "The satan". Not a name, but a title...The accuser.

So, remind me again how this is not a part of Judaism?

And, there is this..............http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/do-jews-believe-in-demons/

I didn't say this wasn't part of Judaism. I did say that the Satan is not a foe of G-d's. As your own linked article says:

Belief in demons, though not very pronounced in Jewish life and thought, is still prevalent, in a semi-comical way, at the level of folklore. Even some of the learned feel compelled to accept, perhaps not too seriously, belief in demons because this belief is implied in the Talmud in many places.

{snip}

Needless to say, sophisticated Jewish thinkers who did believe in the existence of demons did not think of these as little devils with forked tails breathing fire but as spiritual forces which God has unleashed in the world for purposes of His own, or as harmful psychological processes which take place in the human mind.

Thus, these are folklore and all very peripheral to Judaism.