What Would Jesus Do?

[xkatz]

There's no evidence of that. Historical evidence even suggests the contrary: that a simple carpenter wouldn't have been able to read.

Even if he wasn't able to read, he would've known the Bible as it existed as an oral tradition as well at the time. What prevents a "simple carpenter" from becoming literate anyways? Also, from a Christian perspective he would know the Bible better than anyone else as God incarnate...

 

[xkatz]

So, you think that "go and sin no more" meant, "unless you don't sin anymore, you aren't welcome to converse/do business with me or any of my followers"?

Go and sin no more means honestly repenting through correcting your ways. It does not mean to be perfect, but it means to strive towards that. I admittedly cannot speak as to how that might affect how one does business with others, but as I see it business owners are entitled to control their businesses (but thats more relevant to politics than religion to me).

Further, Jesus changed a lot about the Old-Testament teachings, and we really have no idea what he did and did not say in the Gospels, as it is, at the very best, hearsay twice removed. So, I think that it is just as foolish to consider the lack of a passage as evidence that Jesus did not want change.

He actually changed little in terms of the ethos. Granted, he abolished the ritual law, but he did not abolish moral law.

 

[leibowde84]

There's no evidence of that. Historical evidence even suggests the contrary: that a simple carpenter wouldn't have been able to read.

I certainly cannot speak to this with any certainty, but I would assume that young children whose parents were very religious would have taught their children to read the Torah at an early age. And, assuming that there is any accuracy in the Gospels, it can be assumed that Jesus was big on religion. So, maybe it is reasonable to assume that he could at least read fairly well. Keep in mind, the Jews were a lot bigger on education than anyone else was at the time. Even the Romans were behind the times in that respect.

 

[Mycroft]

Even if he wasn't able to read, he would've known the Bible as it existed as an oral tradition as well at the time. What prevents a "simple carpenter" from becoming literate anyways? Also, from a Christian perspective he would know the Bible better than anyone else as God incarnate...

What evidence do you have to suggest that what he was orally told was accurate? I can say any old thing I like to someone who can't read...

Mostly it would have been the Roman occupation that would have prevented him becoming literate in his time (had it ever existed at all). Plus, traditions that dedicate people to their craft would have left little time for reading. Skills were not as decentralised as they are now: carpenters did not learn to read. That, at least, his a historical fact.

 

[leibowde84]

Go and sin no more means honestly repenting through correcting your ways. It does not mean to be perfect, but it means to strive towards that. I admittedly cannot speak as to how that might affect how one does business with others, but as I see it business owners are entitled to control their businesses (but thats more relevant to politics than religion to me).

He actually changed little in terms of the ethos. Granted, he abolished the ritual law, but he did not abolish moral law.

People had this control over their businesses until the Civil Rights Act was passed. At that point, businesses that were open to the public could not discriminate for various reasons. I think it is obvious that sexual orientation should be added to that list.

 

[Mycroft]

I certainly cannot speak to this with any certainty, but I would assume that young children whose parents were very religious would have taught their children to read the Torah at an early age.

How? The parents would have been just as illiterate. And reading the Torah in such times would have been forbidden except for people of the clergy.

 

[xkatz]

And reading the Torah in such times would have been forbidden except for people of the clergy.

(CITATION NEEDED)

 

[xkatz]

People had this control over their businesses until the Civil Rights Act was passed. At that point, businesses that were open to the public could not discriminate for various reasons. I think it is obvious that sexual orientation should be added to that list.

I think it would be appropriate to have a separate thread for this subject to avoid derailment.

 

[metis]

It's highly unlikely that Jesus actually read Torah as there were so few available, and they were pretty much only found in places such as the Temple, synagogues, and various rabbinic schools. What's more likely is that Jesus, as well as many others, heard verses covered on Shabbat and some other days, paraphrased them in his teachings, and then the early church authors quoted the verses from where the paraphrases came from.

 

[BSM1]

Even if he wasn't able to read, he would've known the Bible as it existed as an oral tradition as well at the time. What prevents a "simple carpenter" from becoming literate anyways? Also, from a Christian perspective he would know the Bible better than anyone else as God incarnate...

There was no Bible when or even years after Jesus existed in any form.

 

[Domenic]

Is the bible really the word of God? I believe in God the father, YHWH, his son, our Lord Jesus. And the scrolls religion claim they copied to make the bible. But, is the bible the word of God?

Yesterday I sat with a very good friend who is a Muslim. As we all know they have their own book of God. My friend and I agree, there is only one true God. We also agree the Muslim God, and the Christian God is the same God. I said to my friend, “Before you believe your book, you must first prove it came from God.” He replied, “Have you proven the bible as being from God?” “The bible is not from God,” I replied. “The bible was written by men who claim they made it from the scrolls…each Christian(sic) religion has their own bible, and none of them match the scrolls 100%...so no, I do not believe the bible is from God…it is the scrolls that are from God.” “Christians say the bible is inspired from God,” asked my friend in confussion. I said to my friend, “I could write a bible, and make whatever changes I want to, yet it would not be inspired from God.”

“Can you prove the scrolls are from God?" asked my friend. “Yes, I said. “That is the only reason I believe all the scriptures in the scrolls. They can be proven.”

 

[Mycroft]

But hey, he was Jesus. Why didn't god simply download the Torah directly into his brain?

 

[Awoon]

Jesus gave an example of what to do in a bake shop, or any other situation when confronted with a situation of a sinner.

Two gay people want a baker to make them a wedding cake. The Christian feels doing so would be saying he approves. What would Jesus do?

When people wanted to stone a women for a sin, Jesus picked up a stone, held it out, and said: “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.”

We are all sinners. Is your sin less than mine? or mine less than his, or his less than hers?

What kind of juror would you be?

 

[Domenic]

What kind of juror would you be?

Well, I went to jury duty one time. When asked that question I replied, "I know both sides may lie, withhold truth, and play attorney games with the court...so I would base my feelings on proven facts...The attorneys for both the State, and defendant rejected me. I would not want to be a juror...I can't judge others. I leave all the judging to God. I can't even judge myself.

 

[Domenic]

We are all born with a basic feeling of right, and wrong...some feel it is okay to do wrong because that wrong was done to them...that is what a child does. When adults do it, it is called sin.

 

[Nakosis]

The question more likely is what would Paul do?

"1 Timothy 1:8-11New International Version (NIV)
8 We know that the law is goodif one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me."

In my experience, Christians refer to the teachings of Paul.

Purely my opinion, but I think what Jesus taught was to esoteric for most.

 

[BSM1]

We are all born with a basic feeling of right, and wrong...some feel it is okay to do wrong because that wrong was done to them...that is what a child does. When adults do it, it is called sin.

Right and wrong are subjective judgement calls that each of us has to constantly make. Fortunately most of us make the choices that causes the least amount of harm.

 

[JoStories]

"Widespread evidence from the early church fathers affirms that Peter passed on reports of the words and deeds of Jesus to his attendant and writer, John Mark."

When you quote something, you must cite it or you are committing plagiarism. Who stated this quote? And if we are talking about current Biblical scholars, none agree that Mark wrote the gospel of mark. The book is credited as being anonymous and likely had several authors.

 

[JoStories]

Well you need to take a closer look at what the vast majority of modern scholars say on that question.

Exactly what I just told that poster. I have read some biased apologists who believe as that poster does but not too many give them credibility.

 

[JoStories]

We are all born with a basic feeling of right, and wrong...some feel it is okay to do wrong because that wrong was done to them...that is what a child does. When adults do it, it is called sin.

No, actually it is not called sin. Sin is a man made concept that is a tenet of your faith. I don't believe in it as it is made to have someone tap dancing trying to live up to insurmountable odds. I believe in choices, some make good ones, some bad. Nearly all choices have consequence but sin, you can have it. It's silly, IMO.