What Would You Have Done?

[Debater Slayer]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

 

[Rival]

I would have confronted him. As you said, it's also an idealistic view of white people. I had to bike 7 miles to get to the welfare office when I was on welfare when I was a teenager (so 14 miles total per trip, once or twice every week); then when I moved I had to walk 2 and a half or so miles for the same reason. So around 5 miles there and back. Public transport is not guaranteed and is espec expensive in Britain. So I'm glad you pointed that out.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Hmm...sounds like a white people problem.

 

[Rival]

Hmm...sounds like a white people problem.

Sir, for the third time, a flat white or a latte???

 

[Debater Slayer]

I would have confronted him. As you said, it's also an idealistic view of white people. I had to bike 7 miles to get to the welfare office when I was on welfare when I was a teenager (so 14 miles total per trip, once or twice every week); then when I moved I had to walk 2 and a half so miles for the same reason. So around 5 miles there and back. Public transport is not guaranteed and is espec expensive in Britain. So I'm glad you pointed that out.

Yes, he was being facetious, but I found that the recurring usage of that stereotypical phrase was almost starting to sour conversations.

From what I've seen, some people mistake an overall higher standard of living in a country with a necessarily higher standard of living for a given individual. I think that jumps to too many conclusions and leads to premature assumptions.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Seriously, though, what he says is about him, not about you. By taking exception to it, you made it about you.

I probably would have left it. It's who he is, and changing what he says around you, as I see it, just throws a band-aid on the problem. Sure, he won't say it aloud around you, but that won't change him from thinking it around you.

People are who they are. You can say something about their behaviors, and they may adjust them when around you, but unless they're actually looking to change themselves and/or reach out to you to affect that change, they'll continue such behaviors elsewhere.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Seriously, though, what he says is about him, not about you. By taking exception to it, you made it about you.

I probably would have left it. It's who he is, and changing what he says around you, as I see it, just throws a band-aid on the problem. Sure, he won't say it aloud around you, but that won't change him from thinking it around you.

People are who they are. You can say something about their behaviors, and they may adjust them when around you, but unless they're actually looking to change themselves and/or reach out to you to affect that change, they'll continue such behaviors elsewhere.

You make good points, and that's why I mentioned that he and I are close friends. We usually take what the other says into account and think about it beyond merely adjusting a specific behavior around each other. If he weren't close to me, I would have probably just preferred his company less and not talked to him so directly.

He did say he would think about what I said, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Sir, for the third time, a flat white or a latte???

I don't know what that means!

 

[SalixIncendium]

You make good points, and that's why I mentioned that he and I are close friends. We usually take what the other says into account and think about it beyond merely adjusting a specific behavior around each other. If he weren't close to me, I would have probably just preferred his company less and not talked to him so directly.

He did say he would think about what I said, so we'll see how that goes.

I guess since you two are close, you know him pretty well. Do you think he's actually racist, or do you think he's just trying to be funny?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I guess since you two are close, you know him pretty well. Do you think he's actually racist, or do you think he's just trying to be funny?

Mostly the latter, although he has some overgeneralized views as well.

I'm largely of the opinion that certain things are generally harmful to normalize even if said in a supposedly humorous manner, though, and my friend group especially frown upon situations such as those when a group of men sit around and laugh at misogynistic jokes together. This is partially informed by our cultural background, since sexism is so common and pervasive in this country that such "jokes" more often than not express serious convictions on some level.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Mostly the latter, although he has some overgeneralized views as well.

I'm largely of the opinion that certain things are generally harmful to normalize even if said in a supposedly humorous manner, though, and my friend group especially frown upon situations such as those when a group of men sit around and laugh at misogynistic jokes together. This is partially informed by our cultural background, since sexism is so common and pervasive in this country that such "jokes" more often than not express serious convictions on some level.

In this case, I'll amend what I said previously to this: I'd probably mention to him that I wouldn't use such a remark around people, as there are those that might take exception to it. From there, I'd see what he does with it and decide if I'm prepared to accept whatever choice he makes.

Like I alluded to earlier, I'm not inclined to telling people how to live their lives unless they ask me. And even then, I hesitate to tell them what to do, but instead tell them how I would behave. This is why my daughter will typically come to me for advice when she has a decision to make rather than her mother, who will just flat out tell her what to do, even when advice isn't solicited.

The choice is mine to accept them for who they are with their faults, or to distance myself from them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

In this case, I'll amend what I said previously to this: I'd probably mention to him that I wouldn't use such a remark around people, as there are those that might take exception to it. From there, I'd see what he does with it and decide if I'm prepared to accept whatever choice he makes.

Like I alluded to earlier, I'm not inclined to telling people how to live their lives unless they ask me. And even then, I hesitate to tell them what to do, but instead tell them how I would behave. This is why my daughter will typically come to me for advice when she has a decision to make rather than her mother, who will just flat out tell her what to do, even when advice isn't solicited.

The choice is mine to accept them for who they are with their faults, or to distance myself from them.

I can see where you're coming from, but I see distancing as an absolute last resort when it comes to close friends. They also have the same view. If they or I have concerns, we directly and openly discuss them instead of distancing without trying to talk things through.

It's not that any of us tries to tell another how to live their life; it's just that we know there are boundaries when in each other's company. In my opinion, talking to a close friend to clarify boundaries or point out a problem with specific comments is different from giving unsolicited advice when they just want to talk about a difficulty or decision they're dealing with.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I can see where you're coming from, but I see distancing as an absolute last resort when it comes to close friends. They also have the same view. If they or I have concerns, we directly and openly discuss them instead of distancing without trying to talk things through.

It's not that any of us tries to tell another how to live their life; it's just that we know there are boundaries when in each other's company. In my opinion, talking to a close friend to clarify boundaries or point out a problem with specific comments is different from giving unsolicited advice when they just want to talk about a difficulty or decision they're dealing with.

You make a good point, and if discussing openly has worked for you historically, that's great.

But I guess years of experience has taught me to skip the over the drama of what, in my experience, is usually a temporary solution. I've had similar situations over the years, and have had such discussions, which do, in the short term, seem to work, but over time, resentment for not accepting another for who they are, or the ability to remain consistent in a changed behavior, has eventually come to the forefront and has led to eventual distancing anyway.

I understand that what I say may come across as bitter, but it's not intended to. It's only where experience has led me.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

I believe your response was both appropriate, necessary, and, coming from you, not at all surprising.

 

[Kenny]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

I think you addressed it very well although, apparently, your friend didn't want to address the issue of his heart. He obviously respects you in as much as he said he wouldn't do it in front of you. Much like when people don't cuss in front of me out of respect of who I am and who I represent.

Probably what to do depends on the gravity. Sometime silence in front of other people is understood as "I agree with his/her position". If grave enough I implement the "If you are going to do this publicly, I am going to address it publicly for the benefit of those who are being badly influenced". In other words, sometime silence promulgates the poison into people who are lukewarm and so it must be publicly corrected to prevent that

 

[Heyo]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

I know that phrase as "first world problems" and it's mostly used by first world people criticising other first world people.
I also think of Arabs as Caucasian = white.
And, within my circle of friends, we know that, no matter how (self-)deprecating a statement is, there is no bad will connected to it. We make jokes about stereotypes, we don't stereotype. (Which might be hard to discern from the outside.)
So, from my totally different environment, I wouldn't even have thought about it being racist. Maybe I'm insensitive.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

I'd think he is free to have those opinions, i wouldn't hold it against him, but that said, I'd probably point out that some but not all white people are bad.

I'm guessing he had bad experiences with white people and probably is justified to a degree depending on how bad said experiences were.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

Is your friend white?
I ask cuz I've known some white people who
claim they aren't cuz they're Muslim, Spanish,
Mid-Eastern, or Mexican.
This would affect my response to them.

 

[sun rise]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

+1 for your comment and +1 for his reply.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Having a racist friend can be vey uncomfortable. And we are all racists to some degree. Being aware of how one is racist is a start in dealing with it. You might try to use it on him some day. If he is complaining about something that could possibly be interpreted as being something associated more with his race or origin than others you could say "Sounds like an Arabian person's problem" Or " .. . . a black person problem".

Just be ready to run!!

Actually be ready to quickly point out that is what he sounds like a times with "white people problems".