What Would You Have Done?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

What you did was fine in my judgment, especially since you were uncomfortable making the comment you made and he was a good enough friend that you thought he could hear your objection.

I wouldn't have been offended, and I'm Caucasian. "White people's problem" translates to a problem only people of means and privilege might have of any color. It's more appropriately called rich people's problems.

It's analogous to the phrase "first world hunger" in the facetious sense, as in 'I'm hungry but not really. I just want something to eat because I'm bored.' My wife and I use the phrase, and it's self-deprecating, not bigoted.

THIS, from Seinfeld, is first-world hunger:

Elaine: Come on. Let's go do something. I don't want to just sit around here. Wanna get something to eat?
Jerry: Where?
Elaine: I don't care. I'm not hungry.

Back to white-people problems, here's a wealthy fictional band member discussing his new spin-off ban. He doesn't use the phrase, but the meaning is the same - it's good to have rich people's problems:

William Murderface: You know what my fear is? I just hope this doesn't become bigger than Dethklok. You know, that's, that'd be... that'd be something, you know.
Dick Knubbler: Well, uh, I will tell you this, that's a good problem to have. That's a problem you want to have. It's a good one.

I understand that what I say may come across as bitter

Not bitter as I use the word. A little cynical and pessimistic, but so am I in that regard, and so, in my opinion, a justified attitude.

 

[Secret Chief]

So, in my friend group, there's a guy who sometimes refers to anything he finds to be a minor gripe, fixation on a small inconvenience, etc., as "white people problems."

The last time he used that phrase was when we were talking about walking versus taking public transport, and he facetiously said, "I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

Since I realized it was apparently a reoccurring part of his vocabulary and not just a slip-up, I waited until we were alone and directly told him I would appreciate it if he didn't use the phrase around me and said that I found it racist. He asked me why. I said, "I have white friends, and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about them just as you and I don't appreciate overgeneralizations about Arabs. Many white people struggle to get by like most other people."

He said he would think about what I said and told me he wouldn't use the phrase around me. What would you have done in the same situation, though, bearing in mind that this is a close friend and directness is usual between us? I would have said the same thing if the phrase had been about any other ethnicity (aside from ours, since we sometimes joke about ourselves). In your view, was it better that I responded that way, or do you think I should have let it go?

I'd say I'm not really a fan of such overt racism so could they please knock it on the head. If he thinks it's funny, it isn't.

 

[The Hammer]

Having a racist friend can be vey uncomfortable. And we are all racists to some degree. Being aware of how one is racist is a start in dealing with it. You might try to use it on him some day. If he is complaining about something that could possibly be interpreted as being something associated more with his race or origin than others you could say "Sounds like an Arabian person's problem" Or " .. . . a black person problem".

Just be ready to run!!

Actually be ready to quickly point out that is what he sounds like a times with "white people problems".

This would be my approach. A little passive-aggressive, but seems to work sometimes.

 

[Secret Chief]

Having a racist friend can be vey uncomfortable. And we are all racists to some degree. Being aware of how one is racist is a start in dealing with it. You might try to use it on him some day. If he is complaining about something that could possibly be interpreted as being something associated more with his race or origin than others you could say "Sounds like an Arabian person's problem" Or " .. . . a black person problem".

Just be ready to run!!

Actually be ready to quickly point out that is what he sounds like a times with "white people problems".

I'm a bugger for doing this taste your own medicine stuff. Makes for a quick wake up call.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Hmm...sounds like a white people problem.

Is the problem white, or are the people white? This is why hyphens matter! It's a "white-people problem."

(It looks like I'm white and didn't know it, too!)

I was out all night and will respond to this thread tomorrow, but on re-reading my above post, I think it might come across as snark. That wasn't my intention at all; I meant it playfully. Just wanted to clarify this.

I appreciate your (@SalixIncendium's) and everyone else's input in this thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, all.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Is your friend white?
I ask cuz I've known some white people who
claim they aren't cuz they're Muslim, Spanish,
Mid-Eastern, or Mexican.
This would affect my response to them.

No, he's not white. He's an Arab.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, he's not white. He's an Arab.

Hmmm....I've met Arabs who sure looked white to me.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Hmmm....I've met Arabs who sure looked white to me.

I thought you were asking whether he was of an ethnicity typically associated with being white. If you're asking about skin color, he has light skin.

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought you were asking whether he was of an ethnicity typically associated with being white. If you're asking about skin color, he has light skin.

"White" typically refers to race, ie, Caucasian.
So now I can answer the titular question....
I'd ask "Are you unaware that you're white?".

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I thought you were asking whether he was of an ethnicity typically associated with being white. If you're asking about skin color, he has light skin.

I think that people of European descent are what a lot of other folks typically view as being "white," as whiteness (I think) is associated these days with Western civilization. I believe that race itself is more of a social construct than something based on actual science.

@Heyo, I know that phrase as "people with first world problems," too.

Edited to add: I forgot to answer your question! What would I have done?

I don't know whether I might have considered your friend's joking to be "racist," but if a friend of mine said:

"I can walk without complaining. I'm not a white guy."

I would've responded: "Oh, you call THAT walking? Now I'm afraid to see what you call dancing."

 

[Debater Slayer]

"White" typically refers to race, ie, Caucasian.
So now I can answer the titular question....
I'd ask "Are you unaware that you're white?".

The thing is that we (Arabs) typically don't think of ourselves as "white" or define our ethnicity based on skin color. It's a way of classification that makes little sense in the context of many countries outside the US.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I was out all night and will respond to this thread tomorrow, but on re-reading my above post, I think it might come across as snark. That wasn't my intention at all; I meant it playfully. Just wanted to clarify this.

I appreciate your (@SalixIncendium's) and everyone else's input in this thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, all.

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't 100% certain if it was intended as humor, or if you took exception to my funny.

I didn't rate it just in case it was the latter, as I didn't want to exacerbate what I thought might have been a negative reaction.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The thing is that we (Arabs) typically don't think of ourselves as "white" or define our ethnicity based on skin color. It's a way of classification that makes little sense in the context of many countries outside the US.

Now you've piqued my curiosity. Is there any inclination toward racism based on skin color in the Arab community?

I ask, because some years ago, I was surprised to learn that there is racism based on skin color in the Asian community. I don't recall the exact circumstance, but it was the Asian supervisor that was behaving toward an Asian employee badly, and when asked why, he said he didn't care for him much, and when asked why he felt that way, he pointed to his own arm, essentially saying he didn't like the color of his skin. Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact ethnicity of either.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't 100% certain if it was intended as humor, or if you took exception to my funny.

I didn't rate it just in case it was the latter, as I didn't want to exacerbate what I thought might have been a negative reaction.

No, I definitely took no exception to it. When I have a personal rapport with someone, I also have a strict personal rule not to express objection to anything they post in a snarky or passive-aggressive manner, so I would have told you in a serious, friendly, and direct tone instead of a snarky one if I had taken exception.

It was just an attempt at humor, but I've deleted it because I can see how it could come across completely differently from how I intended it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No, I definitely took no exception to it. When I have a personal rapport with someone, I also have a strict personal rule not to express objection to anything they post in a snarky or passive-aggressive manner, so I would have told you in a serious, friendly, and direct tone instead of a snarky one if I had taken exception.

It was just an attempt at humor, but I've deleted it because I can see how it could come across completely differently from how I intended it.

Full transparency, my post wasn't intended to be snarky nor passive-aggressive. It was just a grab at the opportunity to be humorously ironic.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Now you've piqued my curiosity. Is there any inclination toward racism based on skin color in the Arab community?

I ask, because some years ago, I was surprised to learn that there is racism based on skin color in the Asian community. I don't recall the exact circumstance, but it was the Asian supervisor that was behaving toward an Asian employee badly, and when asked why, he said he didn't care for him much, and when asked why he felt that way, he pointed to his own arm, essentially saying he didn't like the color of his skin. Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact ethnicity of either.

Yes, there's definitely a lot of racism in the Arab world, unfortunately, and in the Gulf in particular, it exists on a legal level and not just on a social one.

Fleeing war, poverty, African migrants face racism in Egypt

Egypt has long been a refuge for African migrants, but racist harassment is reportedly on the rise.

www.aljazeera.com

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scenearabia.com

Migrant workers in Qatar face ‘structural racism’ says UN report

World Cup host heavily criticised over discrimination and ‘coercive conditions’ experienced by labourers from south Asia and Africa

www.theguardian.com

Migrant workers face racism, hate and lack of health care across the Gulf and neighbouring countries - Gulf Centre for Human Rights

This post was written by Khalid Ibrahim, executive director of the Gulf Center for Human Rights (GCHR), an independent, nonprofit organization that promotes freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly in the MENA region. Migrant workers in the Gulf region and neighbouring countries...

www.gc4hr.org

These are just a few articles discussing the subject. When my family lived in a Gulf country, we also experienced some racism in the form of heavily discriminatory laws against foreigners, although it targeted other Arabs, Africans, and Asians rather than people with powerful passports (e.g., Americans and British people). The problem is quite prevalent, and there's a lot of racist and xenophobic rhetoric in the media of some Gulf countries. Some Egyptians also engage in xenophobic and ultra-nationalist demonization of Syrian and Sudanese refugees.

Whether a specific community in an Arab country exhibits racism depends on the community itself. That's highly variable, although I would say most average Arabs are not racist or concerned at all with what ethnicity someone else is.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Full transparency, my post wasn't intended to be snarky nor passive-aggressive. It was just a grab at the opportunity to be humorously ironic.

Thanks for clarifying. I did take it as a good-natured, humorous comment.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I have more time to post now, so I can respond to more posts.

You make a good point, and if discussing openly has worked for you historically, that's great.

But I guess years of experience has taught me to skip the over the drama of what, in my experience, is usually a temporary solution. I've had similar situations over the years, and have had such discussions, which do, in the short term, seem to work, but over time, resentment for not accepting another for who they are, or the ability to remain consistent in a changed behavior, has eventually come to the forefront and has led to eventual distancing anyway.

That makes sense given your experience, and I think it's highly contextual whether talking to people about such concerns is helpful or productive. It seems to me that the answer to that depends on the person, one's relationship to them, what the concerns are, and how the concerns are expressed, among other things.

Personally, if I do or say something to which a close friend takes exception, I deeply appreciate direct communication from them about it. Close friendships are almost sacred to me in terms of the mutual level of dedication, commitment, and goodwill that I look for and strive to have in them, so distancing without trying to talk about concerns is something I wouldn't do to a close friend or want them doing to me.

I understand that what I say may come across as bitter, but it's not intended to. It's only where experience has led me.

It doesn't come across to me as bitter; just perhaps a bit jaded based on past experiences (and I'm using "jaded" neutrally here, not as an implication of anything negative or positive about your perspective).

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think you addressed it very well although, apparently, your friend didn't want to address the issue of his heart. He obviously respects you in as much as he said he wouldn't do it in front of you. Much like when people don't cuss in front of me out of respect of who I am and who I represent.

He said he would consider what I said, and I don't see him as a racist. Based on my experience with him, I find him a well-meaning person who just has some overgeneralized beliefs like the one I mentioned.

Probably what to do depends on the gravity. Sometime silence in front of other people is understood as "I agree with his/her position". If grave enough I implement the "If you are going to do this publicly, I am going to address it publicly for the benefit of those who are being badly influenced". In other words, sometime silence promulgates the poison into people who are lukewarm and so it must be publicly corrected to prevent that

I definitely agree that silence sometimes implies or at least seems to imply approval or agreement. In that situation, he made the comment in front of me and two other close friends, so we all knew each other and wouldn't think anyone's silence implied approval of such a comment. That was also part of why I waited until we were alone to talk to him about it, since I wanted to bring his attention to it rather than embarrass him or put him on the spot. I think that approach is generally better with well-intentioned people who are open to introspection and direct communication.

When it comes to talking with a friend or well-intentioned person about anything that could come across as critical, a general rule I follow is that compliments are okay to make in public, but potentially critical feedback is best kept private.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Having a racist friend can be vey uncomfortable. And we are all racists to some degree. Being aware of how one is racist is a start in dealing with it. You might try to use it on him some day. If he is complaining about something that could possibly be interpreted as being something associated more with his race or origin than others you could say "Sounds like an Arabian person's problem" Or " .. . . a black person problem".

Just be ready to run!!

Actually be ready to quickly point out that is what he sounds like a times with "white people problems".

I can see how it would be better in some situations to put a racist comment into perspective by highlighting how awful it wound sound to the person who made it if it were about another group. Thankfully, in my friend's case, he does try his best to avoid attitudes that are racist, sexist, etc., and he's not resistant to communication to the point where someone else would need to respond to him so bluntly.