Sadly, some, perhaps many, will find this poll difficult.
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Whatever else might be argued, this much is true: ...
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
I think part of the problem is that the response is also a war crime against citizens who aren't Hamas. I'm not sure what Israel could do to eliminate Hamas given they are sing citizens for cover, but many of the bombings and lack of options for citizens to ensure their safety is morally questionable. I've avoided watching coverage just because it makes it hard for me to feel sympathetic for Israel. What's happening in Gaza is horrible.
"Unqualified condemnation" is the mind killer.
It suggests eschewing the question "Why?".
Condemn barbarism, but not in an "unqualified" way.
I see it in so many, including here on RF.
"We're righteous. They are evil."
It's all they focus upon.
They're blind to the underlying reasons that inspire
continued violent resistance & reaction to Israeli
oppression of Palestinians.
To actually solve the problem of no one there living
in peace, first accept that everyone there should
live in peace, justice, & prosperity in their own country.
Toward this end, stop demonizing.
Ask the singular important question...
"Why".
Craft a durable long term solution from understanding
& accepting as valid, the answers to that question.
It suggests eschewing the question "Why?".
Condemn barbarism, but not in an "unqualified" way.
I see it in so many, including here on RF.
"We're righteous. They are evil."
It's all they focus upon.
They're blind to the underlying reasons that inspire
continued violent resistance & reaction to Israeli
oppression of Palestinians.
To actually solve the problem of no one there living
in peace, first accept that everyone there should
live in peace, justice, & prosperity in their own country.
Toward this end, stop demonizing.
Ask the singular important question...
"Why".
Craft a durable long term solution from understanding
& accepting as valid, the answers to that question.
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Well that is a growing problem with any extremist, from Hamas. to putin, to ISIS, to MAGAs. How do we live with those who are unwilling to compromise in the slightest, and prefer to kill everyone and destroy everything versus compromising?
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I think, maybe find something you do agree on and work towards that or work around them as best you can. I'm open to listening to alternatives if anyone has them.
Belief that the other will never compromise is
to give up on negotiation & compromise.
That means abandoning the possibility of peace,
& committing to endless war until one side is
utterly destroyed.
Give peas a chance...or something like that.
I've much experience in negotiating with tenants.
What works?
First, set emotion aside.
Second, hear them out.
Third, validate their perspective...their feelings.
Fourth, recognize merit in their claims.
Then reasoned negotiation can begin. No one
gets everything they want. But all get the best
overall outcome possible.
This has never failed me.
I don't just brand them "wrong!", & fight it out.
In court (the civilian equivalent of war), usually both
parties have already lost. Only the lawyers win.
idea
Question Everything
I see education as the best medicine for all.
What if instead of being pushed to South Gaza, they were invited into Israeli homes? 2 Palestinians for every 7 Jews in the area. If every 7 Jews took in 2 Palestinians - shared food, ate together, read together, put their children in school together. Bring Palestinians across the boarder - take away guns etc. of course, and put all the effort into personal, real connection between everyone.
Turn the other cheek some say...
I used to think Jews were against racism...
condemnation, not barbaric revenge.
What if instead of being pushed to South Gaza, they were invited into Israeli homes? 2 Palestinians for every 7 Jews in the area. If every 7 Jews took in 2 Palestinians - shared food, ate together, read together, put their children in school together. Bring Palestinians across the boarder - take away guns etc. of course, and put all the effort into personal, real connection between everyone.
Turn the other cheek some say...
I used to think Jews were against racism...
condemnation, not barbaric revenge.
I will never validate the "feelings" of those who feel justified in murdering babies and raping women. To compare murderers and rapists who want to murder all the Jews in Israel in a new holocaust to a tenant dispute? Never and never and never and again never. Your sobriquet is totally well chosen @Revoltingest
I will note that I don't endorse all of Israel's tactics while endorsing their aim of destroying a group of people whose aim is to murder all the babies in Israel, rape all the women and to finally murder all the Jews.
Orbit
I'm a planet
All Palestinians are not Hamas.
GAZA: 3,195 children killed in three weeks surpasses annual number of children killed in conflict zones since 2019
The number of children reported killed in Gaza in just three weeks has surpassed the annual number of children killed across conflict zones
What Palestinians Really Think of Hamas – Arab Barometer
www.arabbarometer.org
Then you'll be doomed to never understand
why the weak lash out against oppressors
as they do.
If it's wrong to murder babies in Israel, it should
also be wrong for Israel to bomb babies (& others).
Does that balance ever intrude on your need for
vengeance against Palestinians?
Israel murders more Palestinians than vice versa.
But your caring only about Israel reinforces my
theme in the other thread that Christians & Jews
don't value Muslim lives.
What makes you think the Palestinians actually want a two state solution? Both Hamas and the PA have consistently demonstrated the opposite?
Alien826
No religious beliefs
I utterly condemn what Hamas did. But I have a problem leaving it at that as would be implied if I just voted "yes". Voting "other" suggests that I don't condemn it, and I would have to go to great lengths to explain what I meant in the text section of then thread. In short, like so many polls, this one lacks nuance and is skewed in favor of a particular point of view.
Here's something I heard recently. "It's like kicking a dog over and over then being outraged when it bites you". That's too simplistic too, but I don't want to spend hours going into the history of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
Here's something I heard recently. "It's like kicking a dog over and over then being outraged when it bites you". That's too simplistic too, but I don't want to spend hours going into the history of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
Various reports of its popularity over the decades.
Here is one...
That's a statement with a question mark.
What do you mean?
The hamas attack was a war crime, the Israeli response is also a war crime. Two wrongs don't make a right.
A cure was suggested many years ago by the now deceased master of creative thinking Edward De Bono.
He was asked how to resolve the Arab/Israeli conflict , his answer was send them Marmite (for those who don't know, marmite is a yeast extract spread)
The logic... A lack of zinc makes men irritable and belligerent. You get zinc in yeast, which is fine for your average lover of Mother's Pride bread. But in the Middle East, the bread is unleavened. Ergo, the great man says, Marmite is the answer to easing the way to peace.
His solution was not acted on
A cure was suggested many years ago by the now deceased master of creative thinking Edward De Bono.
He was asked how to resolve the Arab/Israeli conflict , his answer was send them Marmite (for those who don't know, marmite is a yeast extract spread)
The logic... A lack of zinc makes men irritable and belligerent. You get zinc in yeast, which is fine for your average lover of Mother's Pride bread. But in the Middle East, the bread is unleavened. Ergo, the great man says, Marmite is the answer to easing the way to peace.
His solution was not acted on
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Alien826
No religious beliefs
Read this. There are people there that have been working towards peaceful co-existence for some time, and are still doing so in spite of recent events. It gave me some hope. It's a long read, but the main thrust is easy to see.
Hope for Palestinian-Jewish Partnership here is not Lost, I Pray
From the blog of Haviva Ner-David at The Times of Israel
blogs.timesofisrael.com
They really need bacon.
It soothes inflamed emotions, & fosters brotherhood....& sisterhood....& other good kinds of 'hood.
And it's much better than marmite
It's also very likely that few Chinese restaurants offer decent pizza, but neither observation has anything to do with the poll.