What's God's Big Hangup With Homosexuality?

[Skwim]

Thousands of years ago it was so obvious that nobody even questioned the premise. Most guys think homosex is gross(at least other guys), and procreation really was crucial. Most people lived in little communities that were nearly always on the verge of obliteration. One bad harvest, or an invading tribe, or epidemic and the community was doomed. More babies was always better.

But things aren't like that now. Too many babies is the big threat to survival in the modern world. But even if there were a God who had changed His mind, He could never get a word in edgewise. Everybody is too busy rereading and preaching the stuff ancient warlords thought God meant.
Tom

So some of the guys who penned the Bible made up God's abhorrence and wrath toward homosexuality as a pretext to keep everyone pumping out kids. Hmmmm. . . . . . . best answer yet.


.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Most Christians know god personally. The Bible just confirms their belief unless they worship the Bible.

Nah. All I'm interested in is what Christians think is their God's reason for hating homosexuality. He leaves no clue whatsoever.

He leaves no clue? If so, why would you agree that "...god really distaste homosexuality" if he leaves no clue whatsoever?

I assume you already know why some Christians hate homosexuality.

1. They define it as a behavior and sexual promiscuity. That is expressively against god according to scripture

2. Some believe homosexual orientation doesn't exist. Meaning people choose to be LGBTQ. So whatever we do behind doors, even if it's just pecking each other on the cheek of of love is our choice and that choice is a sin.

3. Many still think (found out recently in another thread) homosexuality is illed and linked to sexual abuse as if homosexual behavior is some how connected to any person committing sexual assault. It's funny, actually. I think people who believe this need to do more asking actual homosexuals about what it means to be LGBTQ rather than scripture and "facts" that supposedly support their arguments.

According to the Bible, yes.

With that said, god detest homosexual behavior not homosexuality.

Unless you define homosexuality as a behavior, where does it say he hates homosexuality?

Through common sense. Sane beings don't go around saying,

1. "You must not do X. That is a terrible sin"
2. "If a man does X with another man they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death."
3. without considering X to be detestable.

Do you know why?

1. Homosexuality, to many christians, is an action not a sexual orientation (mentioned above). As such, sexual actions are only commited a. within marriage and b. between male and female.

Give it up man. It is what it is.

2. I don't know about other countries, but America doesn't do that. We may do riots, picket businesses, do protests (as I've seen the Church do) but not put people to death. That's back in the stone ages.

My point in "how do you know this" is do you know god personally?

Most christians know god apart from the bible? Unless it's an idol, god exists with and without the book itself. They just feel they know more about him personally through scripture.

Without scripture, do you know god?

If you do, how do you know? and has he told you personally that he hates homosexuality?

Christians can say whatever they want, but the real issue behind all these threads is, if you don't believe a god exist, you can't change scripture you can just ask why-why-why and how-how-how and every other christian will say something similar to what I said above.

Only christians I know who may agree would be LGBTQ Christians and christians who may not affiliate themselves with any church.

Also, broaden your argument a bit. Muslims believe it's wrong and so do the Jews. Maybe get a different perspective from them?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Well - Im not so sure what that so called "god" in the bible hang up is with homosexualiity - but despite what some try to say that god for sure absolutely despises them and wishes to utterly destroy them... Two cities renowned for male homosexual activity, utterly destroyed without any warning or chance of reprieve...Didnt even tell them to stop and "repent" - just said sod that they disgust me Im gonna destroy them all !!

As to a SPIRITUAL objection to the act - well isnt it obvious..??... Just think of the ACTUAL ACT ITSELF - of placing that intimate body part INSIDE that other DISGUSTING body part - and well - your own Soul will tell you just how abhorant that ACTUALLY is - at least - if you know and listen TO your Soul - then it WILL tell you clearly that that act itself is a complete no no - utterly DEGRADING yourself for "sexual pleasure" - focusing wholly on purely mortal physical sensations and pursuing them always at the direct cost of your Souls truth..

From a spiritual perspective the homosexual act is entirely WRONG - no other words will suffice...It - the ACT itself - is all about sexual pleasure and has nothing to do with "love" at all (before any body starts here trying to confuse the issue) - the ACT itself is apurely sexual act that IS UTTERLY DEGRADING - and again , no other term fits it better or even comes close to an accurate description.....To the SOUL, this is a most base act indeed, and indeed, the Soul is totally ignored as the queer seeks out his sexual pleasure in that way...It has NOTHING to do with "love" or "relationship" at all despite what some may now try to claim - it IS all about the purely PHYSICAL circumstances and it IS all about gaining sexual pleasure and domination for the SAKE of sexual pleasure and domination.....There is NOTHING that can be considered as sacred, holy or spiritual within that act, nothing that could even be considered as "love" in that act, for it is wholly degrading to both people involved...

Now - some people will be up in arms now - slagging me off left right and centre no doubt - BUT - all you straight guys here - just THINK for a moment...Place your Self in a homosexual encounter and I GUARANTEE that your Soul will scream very loudly that it is wrong !!! Imagine the ACTUAL ACT and what is about to happen - a guy is about to mount you, penetrate you and have his way with you - still think its good ok and acceptable..??....Think about it...As he actually enters you, still think this is acceptable..??...Or you, about to penetrate another mans anus..?....Are you SURE thats what you really want to do..??.......THIS is what the tabboo here is REALLY About -your SOUL and its desires !!!

If you can go through with such acts then you clearly DO NOT EVEN KNOW YOUR SOUL AT ALL - and yes I will just state that very clearly - homosexuals are not spiritually aware - very base - purely physical concerns - and to my Soul - THAT is the real problem - homosexuals are spiritually ignorant, deaf and blind to their own Souls - and sadly - very sadly in this modern world - there seems to be this thing where they overwhelm society now, making it seem like its "normal" and "natural" - when actually - it is NEVER normal or natural at all and it is this whole issue - UNNATURAL BASE SEXUAL DESIRE that is the real spiritual taboo....Pursuing such base desires will inevitably drown out the Soul entirely and so that individual is self sabotaging their own spiritual journey and progression - making it acceptable in society in general, will likewise - obviously - sabotage our spiritual progression also - society Im afraid is going BACKWARDS now in terms of it s spirituality - not many people ACTUALLY listening tot heir own Soul - and even less that are then willing to stand up and speak their truth openly, and this is not a good thing at all....See the results ..??...A BROKEN society we have now - wholly dysfunctional - run by spiritually ignorant people who place such base physical concerns above the eternal concerns of spirit...This - open homosexuality being embraced as normal - unnatural things being defended and condoned as normal - this is a symptom Im afraid that tells us society as we would LIKE it to be, is all but finished and is fast getting out of reach for us......Too many spiritually ignorant people following political correctness - following herd mentality for the sake of acceptance - without actually paying attention to the crucial truth of Self...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Exactly!

To tell you honestly, at least those people in the pictures are pretty blunt and direct. If they don't hurt anyone, knocking people over the heads, and shoving things in people's faces, protests don't do harm just very annoying.

Subtle things like this: CURE bother me. Always the indirect things that cause a lot of mess that possess people's heads.

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity. And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."

- Pope Francis, The Name of God is Mercy​

Homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, and so forth are sexual orientations not tendencies. Yeah, I'm attracted to women but I have better things to do: pay bills, roller skate, take classes, go to Deaf community events and socialize. If I meet a woman, great! But not because I'm physically attracted to her, that's a plus! I hope Francis doesn't think we're aliens that we only have tendencies. Very disturbing. Puts into Catholics head that's what we have. Indirect indoctrination of the Catholic society.

CURE seems like a good intent and all.

EnCourage provides members with an understanding of the needs of individuals who experience samesex attractions and assists members to reach out to their loved ones with true compassion. EnCourage supports the work of Courage, the Roman Catholic apostolate to samesex attracted individuals who live chastely in fellowship, truth and love.​

But LGBT can't fall in love with the blessings of their own Church.

If you love our faith and also your loved one with samesex attractions, you do not have to feel confused or isolated any longer. Be welcomed by a group of committed Catholics who understand your sufferings and who will walk and pray with you on this journey.​

They feel people who have homosexual attractions may be confused and isolated because these people want support to either deal with their attractions in a healthy manner (as if physiological and biological attractions aren't healthy to specific people) and prevent tendencies to act on attractions (as some people like pansexuals don't focus on gender as a means to relate to someone they want to know well) but I dont know if the Church fully understands what many of these sexual identities mean.

What's also irritating about Christianity and mainly what I learn from the Church is a transgender female (male to female) let's say, can't date someone of her opposite sex because the Church doesn't see her heart and how she and how she feels god sees herself as a female but the Church sees her as biologically male. If CURE supports people, they should support how people identify themselves beyond sexual attraction. They should support (which means accept and respect) people's gender identity and if a male sees himself as a woman, by gosh, their Church should see her as a woman.

So, I understand where you come from. But you can't change anything; so, all we can do is talk around the issue but how do we address it, really?

 

[Fredx10]

God would never use a stupid word like "terrible." And the "LGBT" alphabet soup is an insult to individuals.

 

[Kemosloby]

It's like they say in that movie, FUBAR. When something goes beyond repair, you just got to junk it.

 

[omega2xx]

While God may tolerate homosexuals (He never really comes out and condemns such people), according to the Bible it's clear He detests homosexual acts, both male and female. He even wants men who engage in homosexuality to be put to death. Three passages in particular address His distaste. (If there are other direct scriptural references feel free to share.)

Leviticus 18:22 (ERV)
22 “Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!

Leviticus 20:13 (ERV)
13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Romans 1:24, 26-27 (ERV)
24 People wanted only to do evil. So God left them and let them go their sinful way.

26 Because people did those things, God left them and let them do the shameful things they wanted to do. Women stopped having natural sex with men and started having sex with other women. 27 In the same way, men stopped having natural sex with women and began wanting each other all the time. Men did shameful things with other men, and in their bodies they received the punishment for those wrongs.​

Currently, it's estimated that from 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the population identify as LGBT.* With the current world population now hitting close to 7.5 billion, and considering God's attitude in Leviticus 20:13, this means there are between 112 - 635 million people (homosexuals) He feels are better off dead.

Pretty drastic of a loving god if you ask me. So the question arises: Just what the heck does God find so abhorrent about homosexual activity? He certainly doesn't leave any clue. Perhaps He may doth protest too much?

Anyone care to take a stab?

Even a cave man can understand that someone who does not exist, can condemn anyone.

However, since you are wrong in both statement as usual, let me ask you why you use the ESV? Is it because good translations are above your reading comprehension level or you thought mistranslated word would help you make your case? The words are not "a terrible sin," it is "abomination." Then in Lev 18:24 God says "do not defile yourselves with these things. Is that no condemning what they do.

Why did you not include I Cor 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God" Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, not idolaters, not adulterers, not effeminate nor homosexual ...will inherit the kingdom of God.

Lets not forget 2 Pet 2:6 - If God condemned the cities for their homosexual conduct, did that not include those who committed the acts?

One easy suggestion; instead of using the "Easy to deceive version," get a real Bible. If it is beyond you reading comprehension level, I will be glad to help you understand what it says.

When the Bib l says "God so love the world..." do you see and * saying except for homosexuals?

When the Bible says, God is patient, not desiring any to perish but for ALL to come to repentance, is there an * excluding homosexuals?

*The demographics of sexual orientation and gender identity in the United States have been more accurately studied in the social sciences in recent decades. In the first large-scale government survey measuring Americans’ sexual orientation, the NHIS reported in July 2014 that 1.6 percent of Americans identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent identify as bisexual. In a Williams Institute review based on an June–September 2012 Gallup poll, approximately 3.4 percent of American adults identify themselves as being LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender). An earlier report published in April 2011 by the Williams Institute estimated that 3.8 percent of Americans identified as gay/lesbian, bisexual, or transgender: 1.7 percent as lesbian or gay, 1.8 percent as bisexual, and 0.3 percent as transgender. The 2011 Williams Institute report also states that 8.2 percent of Americans reported that they had engaged in same-sex sexual behavior, and 11 percent reported some same-sex attraction. Studies from several nations, including the U.S., conducted at varying time periods, have produced a statistical range of 1.2 to 6.8 percent of the adult population identifying as LGBT. Online surveys tend to yield higher figures than other methods,[4] a likely result of the higher degree of anonymity of Internet surveys, which elicit reduced levels of socially desirable responding.
Source: Wikipedia


.

The number of homosexual is irrelevant.

 

[omega2xx]

For me personally its easy, the hang up belonged to those who wrote those words, maybe they had a guilty conscious ?.

How do we know your own religion is accurate?

 

[savagewind]

Even a cave man can understand that someone who does not exist, can condemn anyone.

 

[Tony Arthur]

God doesn't despise homosexuals; the nameless men who wrote the Bible according to their own mores and prejudices did. Since sexuality is a spectrum, from homo-to heter-sexual, since we all start off embryonically as female and some of us develop into males as foetuses, and if we assume that God knows this (as the creator) and was ok with it (since he looked on his creation and saw that it was good), it would be ridiculous to believe that he abhorred people at one end of that spectrum, who are perfectly natural in their own preferences according to their placement on that spectrum that he created.

The Bible is not the word of god, that is patently obvious, and so inferring what god feels from it is pointless. All it really tells us is something about the state of mind of the people who wrote it.

 

[savagewind]

Is it because good translations are above your reading comprehension level

.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Thousands of years ago it was so obvious that nobody even questioned the premise. Most guys think homosex is gross(at least other guys), and procreation really was crucial. Most people lived in little communities that were nearly always on the verge of obliteration. One bad harvest, or an invading tribe, or epidemic and the community was doomed. More babies was always better.

But things aren't like that now. Too many babies is the big threat to survival in the modern world. But even if there were a God who had changed His mind, He could never get a word in edgewise. Everybody is too busy rereading and preaching the stuff ancient warlords thought God meant.
Tom

That and I think that another goal is to out-procreate warring tribes to transform the world through reproduction and education instead of war. Its a fact that people die of old age, so whoever reproduces the fastest gets to determine the future. Who is to say that one more child won't make the difference? Maybe that one extra child will result in peace 100 years sooner.

 

[Blastcat]

What's Skwim's big hang up with sacred scripture he doesn't believe in, knows he can't change, but keeps making threads on?

It must be very difficult for some people to have their cherished religious beliefs exposed for what it really is. Some people when so challenged, attack the person instead of dealing with the difficult issues.

 

[Blastcat]

What's your big hangup with God????

I think he is referring to how many religious people seem to hate LGBT. Apparently, some of them refer to verses in the Bible such as
Leviticus 20:13. God seems to want to kill men who engage in gay sex.

It's not so much a hang up with God that we are supposed to be discussing, but God's hang up with gays.

 

[Blastcat]

I call these types Bible-Thumping non-believers.

Why?

 

[Rival]

It must be very difficult for some people to have their cherished religious beliefs exposed for what it really is. Some people when so challenged, attack the person instead of dealing with the difficult issues.

I'm not attacking anyone. He can think what he likes about my beliefs, I don't care. I just don't understand why he feels the need to make thread after thread about the same topic. Is he expecting different answers every time?

 

[Blastcat]

For a man of the offspring of Abraham to lie with other men would result in a curse on the purpose of God to cause a son to be born in Israel.

Do you mean that if a man has sex with another man that no sons at all would be born in Israel? Men would not have sex with women ever again if they have sex with a man? Not all men want to have sex with other men.

Why do you think that gay men prevent heterosexual men from having sex with women?

 

[Blastcat]

I'm not attacking anyone. He can think what he likes about my beliefs, I don't care. I just don't understand why he feels the need to make thread after thread about the same topic. Is he expecting different answers every time?

Right.

Why would anyone want to write about religions?

Especially agnostics and skeptics like myself?

Good question.

I'm sure that you must know some of our answers, surely.
If you would like mine, just ask.

 

[Rival]

Right.

Why would anyone want to write about religions?

Especially agnostics and skeptics like myself?

Good question.

I'm sure that you must know some of our answers, surely.
If you would like mine, just ask.

No, I understand exactly why atheists and agnostics care to discuss religion. It's not a problem. That is what we are here for. But going through the same topic, in this case homosexuality, over and over and over, with the same person, becomes very tiresome.

 

[Blastcat]

I do not know how to do that.

You just got to the point.
We all understand.

Your original post was a mess.. that sounded all religiousy.