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What's so bad about "woo-woo" beliefs?

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
There's a distinction here, I think. People who are at all astute realize that professional wrestling is fake and exaggerated for entertainment purposes. That it is, I hope, the common understanding.

So also, stage magic or individuals performing sleight of hand take advantage of the fact that our senses can easily be fooled into thinking something is happening that cannot, such as sawing in half a box containing a woman and then her being "put back together." We know, unless we are children too immature to discern that what happened to the woman cannot actually have occurred, that this is an illusion skillfully performed for entertainment. Same thing as pro wrestling.

There is so much ignorance about occult practices that some of us feel it useful and helpful to change the spelling precisely because we get tired of being asked, "Oh, what kind of tricks can you do? Card tricks?"
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
After reading this thread, it seems to me that magick with a k is a way to manifest one's own will in the world, in a way that is completely natural to humans, and does not involve things that humans can't do, like change the weather.

It's more along the lines of making oneself confident enough to accomplish ordinary tasks, or to feel and think optimistically in order to be more healthy, physically and pyschologically.

That said, these things can be accomplished without magick, which (sorry to be blunt) simply sound like stage props that help one get into a mindset that they can actually accomplish these things.

The stage props, imo, really are just so much woo. I can't complain about what's being obtained by the woo, however, so if you need woo to be confident and optimistic, then enjoy and happy magicking! :)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There's a distinction here, I think. People who are at all astute realize that professional wrestling is fake and exaggerated for entertainment purposes. That it is, I hope, the common understanding.

So also, stage magic or individuals performing sleight of hand take advantage of the fact that our senses can easily be fooled into thinking something is happening that cannot, such as sawing in half a box containing a woman and then her being "put back together." We know, unless we are children too immature to discern that what happened to the woman cannot actually have occurred, that this is an illusion skillfully performed for entertainment. Same thing as pro wrestling.
Right... and as I said, this doesn't make us go looking for new words for wrestling, so I don't see why it should make us go looking for new words for magic.

There is so much ignorance about occult practices that some of us feel it useful and helpful to change the spelling precisely because we get tired of being asked, "Oh, what kind of tricks can you do? Card tricks?"
Heh... I'm into auto racing, especially rallying. It's fairly common that when you tell someone you're going to a rally, they say "really? What are you protesting?"

A very small number of people spell it "rallye" to make the distinction, but I think that's silly, so I don't do it (unless I'm going to one in Quebec, since that's how you do spell the word in French).
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
After reading this thread, it seems to me that magick with a k is a way to manifest one's own will in the world, in a way that is completely natural to humans, and does not involve things that humans can't do, like change the weather.

It's more along the lines of making oneself confident enough to accomplish ordinary tasks, or to feel and think optimistically in order to be more healthy, physically and pyschologically.

True enough...as I use and perceive it.

However, there ARE people who do magick who genuinely believe they can shift weather patterns and do things that most of us "just know" people can't do.

My husband says he once observed some weatherworkers doing whatever they do on a storm that was coming right at the campground where people had gathered for feasting and workshops. The stormfront split and sent dark clouds neatly around both sides of the site. Subsequent reports indicated that there had been heavy rain around the campground but only light rain at its edges.

Now, maybe that was a natural fluke, but he said it seemed to occur in direct response to the ritual workings done by these people. He couldn't conceive of any other cause for the storm to divide as if split by a wedge not far from the campground.

A thirdhand story, so make of it what you will.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
True enough...as I use and perceive it.

I went for a walk and was thinking of some analogous practices that are used to focus ones mind and teach self control.

On the positive end is the meditation practices along the lines of Buddhism. I'm not sure why I can view meditation with more respect-- I don't classify it as "woo"-- than I do magick. Perhaps because I can understand how meditation might physiologically work as a calming, focusing, confidence-boosting technique and I don't quite see how magick works, besides as a placebo sort of effect.

The less flattering comparison that came to mind were various superstitious beliefs and practices, things like 7 years bad luck for breaking a mirror, or wearing "lucky" socks every game to boost your ability.

We have a tendency to believe these sorts of things because we're not very good at distinguishing between simple correlation and actual causation.

Additionally, which is even more apt to the comparison to magick, there is self-fullfilling prophecy and confirmation bias. If you think that the 13th floor is bad luck, maybe you'll sleep poorly in your hotel room simply because you expect to. And then you'll attribute it to the fact that you were on the 13th floor, rather than the more probable cause that you had been stressing about it. Or maybe you hadn't really believed it about 13th floors until you got food poisoning that night in that hotel, and you start to think maybe there is something to that 13th floor thing.

Do you think these may be the case with magick? And if so, does it really matter to you, since it is still ultimately effective at doing what you want it to accomplish in your life?

However, there ARE people who do magick who genuinely believe they can shift weather patterns and do things that most of us "just know" people can't do.

My husband says he once observed some weatherworkers doing whatever they do on a storm that was coming right at the campground where people had gathered for feasting and workshops. The stormfront split and sent dark clouds neatly around both sides of the site. Subsequent reports indicated that there had been heavy rain around the campground but only light rain at its edges.

Now, maybe that was a natural fluke, but he said it seemed to occur in direct response to the ritual workings done by these people. He couldn't conceive of any other cause for the storm to divide as if split by a wedge not far from the campground.

A thirdhand story, so make of it what you will.
Cool story! Though, of course, I find it much more likely that it was a fortuitous coincidence rather than something brought about by human actions.

I have my own story. When I was 14, I accidentally left my Bible at a campground in Florida. I loved that Bible; it had been my mother's before me, and had all my notes and highlighted passages in it. That night, we experienced a couple of those brief, drenching torrential downpours that burst into existence during Florida summers. I prayed and prayed and prayed that my Bible would not be destroyed, before I could rescue it the next day. The next morning, I go to find it. It is sitting right where I left it. The ground around it is all wet to the touch, and you can still see the raindrops on the blades of grass. But my Bible is bone dry. There is not a sign of dampness on its pages.

At the time, of course, I thought God had heard my prayers. He had performed a miracle and protected His Word. There was no other explanation.

But maybe it was magick. Maybe it was a miracle but my prayers had nothing to do with it. Or maybe it was positioned just right under a tree, and the leaves and it's leather binding protected it.

The beliefs we currently hold, or are predisposed to, are what's going to determine which explanation we assign to uncommon or coincidental events. :yes:
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
We have a tendency to believe these sorts of things because we're not very good at distinguishing between simple correlation and actual causation.

Additionally, which is even more apt to the comparison to magick, there is self-fullfilling prophecy and confirmation bias....

Do you think these may be the case with magick? And if so, does it really matter to you, since it is still ultimately effective at doing what you want it to accomplish in your life?

I think it quite possible that what you listed...maybe even superstition or magical thinking of the self-deluding sort...could be what happens.

Doesn't really matter that much to me except occasionally it grates on my skeptical intellect that I'm doing stuff that may be no more at bottom than pretending there's a Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy.

The beliefs we currently hold, or are predisposed to, are what's going to determine which explanation we assign to uncommon or coincidental events. :yes:

Oh, sure. Which is why I tend to react with a "Well, THAT was certainly unusual/different/interesting" when I get some image or physical reaction by means of ritual work.

Believe that there's some supernatural element involved? Sometimes, like many humans, I really would like such an assurance, but I don't know that my deciding it was supernatural wouldn't be my own imagination or wishful thinking coloring what was actually faulty perception or coincidence.

As the king said in The King and I, " 'Tis a puzzlement."
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I liked this post enough to risk getting sucked back into this nonsense.

After reading this thread, it seems to me that magick with a k is a way to manifest one's own will in the world, in a way that is completely natural to humans, and does not involve things that humans can't do, like change the weather.

It's more along the lines of making oneself confident enough to accomplish ordinary tasks, or to feel and think optimistically in order to be more healthy, physically and pyschologically.

That said, these things can be accomplished without magick, which (sorry to be blunt) simply sound like stage props that help one get into a mindset that they can actually accomplish these things.

The stage props, imo, really are just so much woo. I can't complain about what's being obtained by the woo, however, so if you need woo to be confident and optimistic, then enjoy and happy magicking! :)

You definition of magic(k) is completely correct, except the fact that the 'k' is optional haha. It is simply a psychological practice that involves absolutely nothing supernatural. However, you said that it can be accomplished without magic(k), but that is not necessarily true. In my opinion there is a significant difference between simply making yourself confident and practicing magic(k). That is the use of ceremony, ritual, symbolism, etc, things very specific to the practice of magic(k). Personally I do not practice such things, I have never found them helpful and think they are quite silly to be honest, but it is a personal choice and seems to work for most. I'm more about the mental than the physical, and doing rituals and using symbolism does not aid me in the slightest. I greatly prefer meditation as I feel it is more health mentally that blurring the lines between fact and fiction.
 
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