What's the Big Deal with Israel?

[metis]

I don't disagree, but to pretend like paying tax payer money to Israel, who will then spend the money on American goods (which is only true for a portion of the aid), the money of which is given to manufacturers, and not tax payers, is somehow a good deal for me, when I have no vested interested in Holy Dirtland, would be a bit disingenuous.

At the end of the day, it's an extra ten dollars a year I pay Israel to help them out, which, I don't mind helping out an ally. But, I would suspect that Israel to act less expansionist, and to work out a two-state solution. And I would appreciate it if we held the same standards to Gaza and the West Bank.

We get a lot more from Israel than just that, let me tell ya, and the feeling is mutual with their attitude towards us. When there, one often gets the feeling that Israel is America's 51st state we have such a presence there.

Foreign aid buys us things, and if there was no advantage to helping Israel out I doubt that we'd be doing what we're doing. American Navy personnel you'll see there on r & r. We have joint military projects, such as the Patriot missiles and an anti-tank rocket that we have jointly worked on. Intel has a huge facility there that's so protected that one can't get anywhere near it without a pass. We share intelligence with the Mossad and they with us. On and on and on.

You may not have an invested interest, but the U.S. does, as does Israel.

 

[metis]

Sure. Except usually, when we sell weapons to various countries, we don't give them money to buy the weapons first.

That's simply not true. When we provide a country with foreign aid, there are typically strings attached as to how and where those monies are to be spent. We have helped Jordan in this area, for just one example.

 

[Godobeyer]

"Some Muslims"
See there is your problem. And you won't understand it. Because what the Kuffar and most importantly the evil Yahudi do will always be worse for you.



Yeah yeah I know you have no problem with Jews, Algerians love Jews and all those crap that you like to tell.

i read in journal last years 800 Jews left Algeria and go to Israel

most Algerian don't love Jews (this is long stroy) ,it's not my problem that some people are generalize (as you do ) .

 

[Godobeyer]

First of all, my post was not in response to you but to FG. Secondly, you simply cannot in any moral manner whatsoever blame Jews for abusing Arabs but not blame Arabs for abusing and murdering Jews. Both sides have committed terrible acts at times, but we simply cannot justly accuse just one side. But what I read coming from you and FG the vast majority of the time is just putting the blame on Israel and Jews-- over and over and over again.

Listen, Israel exists, so rehashing what you or I think should have happened is a moot point. Therefore, let's deal with what exists.

My purpose here is not to say who is at fault, whether Bedouin, or Palestinian. What I am addressing here is the seemingly disproportionate reaction of the Israeli Govt. when it comes to meeting out punishment for a crime. If an Arab, (Bedouin or Palestinian whichever may be the case) stabs a Jewish person, the offending families home is destroyed. If its the other way around and a Jewish person commits a violent crime against a Palestinian, the Jewish families home is not destroyed. That just seems to me to be one sided, racially motivated justice to say the least

 

[metis]

i read in journal last years 800 Jews left Algeria and go to Israel

most Algerian don't love Jews (this is long stroy) ....

Did you ever stop to think that this is maybe why they left? I certainly wouldn't want to live there with so many people with your attitude.

 

[Tumah]

My purpose here is not to say who is at fault, whether Bedouin, or Palestinian. What I am addressing here is the seemingly disproportionate reaction of the Israeli Govt. when it comes to meeting out punishment for a crime. If an Arab, (Bedouin or Palestinian whichever may be the case) stabs a Jewish person, the offending families home is destroyed. If its the other way around and a Jewish person commits a violent crime against a Palestinian, the Jewish families home is not destroyed. That just seems to me to be one sided, racially motivated justice to say the least

What I am addressing here is the seemingly disproportionate number of posts you've made regarding Israelis destroying houses. When it comes to Arabs destroying Israeli lives though, you don't make so many posts. That just seems to me to be one sided racially motivated posting to say the least.

Never mind the fact that you seem to ignore the fact that Hamas and the PA are encouraging their people to terrorize Jews and without a similarly persuasive argument on the Israeli side against doing so, Israelis run the risk of increased terror attacks. Since Israeli dissuades their people from terror attacks, there is much less need to take such aggressive action. Destroying houses is not revenge for terror, it is a method the Israeli government uses to dissuade future terrorists. And all this I've already said to you before.

 

[metis]

My purpose here is not to say who is at fault, whether Bedouin, or Palestinian. What I am addressing here is the seemingly disproportionate reaction of the Israeli Govt. when it comes to meeting out punishment for a crime. If an Arab, (Bedouin or Palestinian whichever may be the case) stabs a Jewish person, the offending families home is destroyed. If its the other way around and a Jewish person commits a violent crime against a Palestinian, the Jewish families home is not destroyed. That just seems to me to be one sided, racially motivated justice to say the least

That would be all fair and dandy if it wasn't for the fact that you and FG simply do not hold the "Palestinians" and other Arabs and Muslims to anywhere near the same standard. Instead of assigning them some of the culpability they deserve, all you two do is to blame Israel and Jews for everything. You two could be the poster-children of why the Middle East is the way it is.

Until people like you and I are willing to work for peace, there simply will be no peace.

 

[dust1n]

We get a lot more from Israel than just that, let me tell ya, and the feeling is mutual with their attitude towards us. When there, one often gets the feeling that Israel is America's 51st state we have such a presence there.

Foreign aid buys us things, and if there was no advantage to helping Israel out I doubt that we'd be doing what we're doing. American Navy personnel you'll see there on r & r. We have joint military projects, such as the Patriot missiles and an anti-tank rocket that we have jointly worked on. Intel has a huge facility there that's so protected that one can't get anywhere near it without a pass. We share intelligence with the Mossad and they with us. On and on and on.

Yea, seems like a big waste of money. War goods follow the law of diminishing returns. Spending exponentially more money on smaller and smaller upgrades to the same weapons system so that we have an edge over the countries we just sold our old weapons to, is a waste of taxpayer money, and the "R&R" is a giant brain drain sucking up all the intellectuals to help the war effort, as opposed to, like, any other efforts, again, for the benefit and income of a very small group of Americans.There are also costs associated with it, like, making more enemies in the world for no reason.

You may not have an invested interest, but the U.S. does, as does Israel.

Right, but I'm not really interested in the perceived self-interest of the military community in America, or the security firms, or the intelligence agencies. I have serious reservations about whether the Army's self-interest and the average American's self-interest, in any way overlap at this point.

 

[columbus]

You may not have an invested interest, but the U.S. does, as does Israel.

This is not true.
I, like dust1n and most USonians, have no real interest in what happens in the ME concerning Israel. A bunch of Jewish people moved there and are unhappy about the results.
I would rather see the USA invest in Taiwan, another little democracy that is under fire.
Or support any fledgling democracy that tries to do well by the people.
Why should I be forced to subsidize Zionists?
Tom

 

[Skwim]

The above is outdated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Military_Financing#By_country

Scroll down to "by country"

From 2003 to 2007 Iraq was the largest beneficiary of FMF, since then it is Afghanistan.[2] Until 2003 it was Israel. Other countries in the Middle East and Greater Middle East (including Pakistan, Jordan, and especially Egypt) are among the other major recipients of FMF funds.

I would personally not funnel $ into Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, or any of the terrorist countries. I would rather see it go to Israel.

My source has a publishing date of Nov. 11, 2015, 6:55 AM. Your linked source has figures from 2008.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Part of USA overwhelming support for Israel is also connected to our grandparents WWII experience. One of my grandfather's flew a plane and one was a mechanic. At the end of the war after the holocaust was known more widely everyone wanted to do try and do something for all the Jews. I think support for the new country seemed like the natural thing to do and still does.

 

[Godobeyer]

What I am addressing here is the seemingly disproportionate number of posts you've made regarding Israelis destroying houses. When it comes to Arabs destroying Israeli lives though, you don't make so many posts. That just seems to me to be one sided racially motivated posting to say the least.

Never mind the fact that you seem to ignore the fact that Hamas and the PA are encouraging their people to terrorize Jews and without a similarly persuasive argument on the Israeli side against doing so, Israelis run the risk of increased terror attacks. Since Israeli dissuades their people from terror attacks, there is much less need to take such aggressive action. Destroying houses is not revenge for terror, it is a method the Israeli government uses to dissuade future terrorists. And all this I've already said to you before.

there is no country in world when someone commit a crime , the gouvernment destroy the home of his family .

i just consider this a general punishement , it's extra over the Torah teaching " eye for eye" it's become " eye for eyes"

 

[Godobeyer]

Did you ever stop to think that this is maybe why they left? I certainly wouldn't want to live there with so many people with your attitude.

you have them , now you had chance to interview them .and ask them why they left .


sometimes i discuss with my friends, and i said to them , that there are good Jews beside bad Jews , and Israel don't represent all Jews .

my attitude is against the abuse of Palestinians by Israel settlements , not JEWS

 

[Tumah]

there is no country in world when someone commit a crime , the gouvernment destroy the home of his family .

i just consider this a general punishement , it's extra over the Torah teaching " eye for eye" it's become " eye for eyes"

There is also no country in the world that is as advanced as Israel when it comes to protecting itself from terrorism. So that would kind of go hand in hand.

Of course, what the Torah teaches is irrelevant, since the people in question don't abide by the Torah. So not really sure what the purpose of that remark is...

 

[Godobeyer]

There is also no country in the world that is as advanced as Israel when it comes to protecting itself from terrorism. So that would kind of go hand in hand.

Of course, what the Torah teaches is irrelevant, since the people in question don't abide by the Torah. So not really sure what the purpose of that remark is...

Israel without USA is nothing , it's just big base of USA in region .

Israel is only racist country in world , and only country when someone (I mean ARAB) commit a crime , the Israel punish him and his family

 

[Godobeyer]

My post was largely a response to two different opinions about AIPAC I have read on RF recently.
@Godobeyer thinks AIPAC is funded by Jewish Zionists.

funded by Jewish Zionists and supporters of Israel , to support Israel in UN by politic (VETO) and support Israeli economy and military .

so i consider it as parasite of Israel inside USA , because not Americans whom profit from AIPAC , Israelis whom profit from AIPAC

 

[columbus]

At the end of the war after the holocaust was known more widely everyone wanted to do try and do something for all the Jews.

Call me a cynic if you want. But I think anti-Judaism had more to do with the "creation" of Israel than guilt.
Nobody wanted Jews around. By giving them a state the anti-Jews could absolve themselves of bigotry. Jewish people didn't have to stay in Christendom, they could go to Israel. Staying in France or the USA or wherever was freely choosing to stay in an anti Jewish culture and that absolved the bigots from responsibility. The Jews had a choice.

It also gave western powers a beach head near the oil fields of the gulf. After WWII, access to petroleum was known to be crucial to global power.
I don't think kindness and charity had a thing to do with the creation of Israel. Greed for wealth and power were the motivations.
Things haven't changed much either.
Tom

 

[dust1n]

Israel without USA is nothing , it's just big base of USA in region .

Well, I wouldn't say nothing. I mean Israel did win it's own War of Independence more or less on its own...

 

[columbus]

funded by Jewish Zionists and supporters of Israel ,

No, it isnt.
It is supported by whoever makes money from USA foreign policy. That could be a Korean company that supplies a USonian weapons manufacturing company.
Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

Well, I wouldn't say nothing. I mean Israel did win it's own War of Independence more or less on its own...

Israel would not won any war without help of West .

Israel through AIPAC is using USA , and so it's look like Christians believe in Jesus (pbuh) , he is son of God and God in same time , it's really complicated and mixed roles, i can say Israel is using USA , and it's consider as USA (AIPAC) base in region .