What's the Big Deal with Israel?

[Godobeyer]

No, it isnt.
It is supported by whoever makes money from USA foreign policy. That could be a Korean company that supplies a USonian weapons manufacturing company.
Tom

whatever the funder , AIPAC is creat to support Israel citizens (not USA citizens) .
millions of Americans are homelless , how many Israeli are homelless ?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Call me a cynic if you want. But I think anti-Judaism had more to do with the "creation" of Israel than guilt.
Nobody wanted Jews around. By giving them a state the anti-Jews could absolve themselves of bigotry. Jewish people didn't have to stay in Christendom, they could go to Israel. Staying in France or the USA or wherever was freely choosing to stay in an anti Jewish culture and that absolved the bigots from responsibility. The Jews had a choice.

It also gave western powers a beach head near the oil fields of the gulf. After WWII, access to petroleum was known to be crucial to global power.
I don't think kindness and charity had a thing to do with the creation of Israel. Greed for wealth and power were the motivations.
Things haven't changed much either.
Tom

But the UN was involved!

 

[gsa]

Israel would not won any war without help of West .

Israel through AIPAC is using USA , and so it's look like Christians believe in Jesus (pbuh) , he is son of God and God in same time , it's really complicated and mixed roles, i can say Israel is using USA , and it's consider as USA (AIPAC) base in region .

Godobeyer, I like you. I think that you have good instincts quite a bit, based on what I have read, despite the vast political and geographical gulf that separates us. But just step back for a second and think about what you wrote: "Israel through AIPAC is using USA."

You really think that is true? I mean, one of the richest, most developed and militaristic countries in the world is being used by some tiny Mediterranean country of little to no geopolitical consequence? I know you don't really believe that.

 

[dust1n]

Israel would not won any war without help of West .

Israel through AIPAC is using USA , and so it's look like Christians believe in Jesus (pbuh) , he is son of God and God in same time , it's really complicated and mixed roles, i can say Israel is using USA , and it's consider as USA (AIPAC) base in region .

Not the case in 1948. We had an arms embargo against Israel and 5 Arab nations involved. AIPAC didn't exist yet.

"Following World War I, the Balfour Declaration of November 2, 1917 was a product of efforts by President Woodrow Wilson at the urging of Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. At that time, support for a Jewish state by the United States and American Jews was not popular.

Following World War II and the Holocaust, the United Nations General Assembly passed Resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, which devised a plan to partition the British mandate of Palestine. The Jewish community of Palestine accepted the plan, but the Arabs rejected it. Britain withdrew from mandatory Palestine on May 14, 1948, and Israel declared itself a State. Upon Israel's declaration of statehood, both the United States and the Soviet Union immediately recognized the state of Israel.

President Harry Truman, with the urging of his executive assistant, Clark Clifford, acted because he felt"it was the right thing to do." The Soviet motive was less altruistic. Because the government of Israel was controlled by the Labor Party, the Soviets believed Israel would become part of the Soviet Bloc and provide a Soviet entree into the Middle East. Israel chose the West and the Soviets were disappointed. The Soviets then courted favor with Arab countries and developed a hostile position to Israel.

Although the United States immediately recognized Israel, it also strictly enforced the Neutrality Act which prohibited the sale or transfer of any military weapons to Israel. The 1948 War of Independence established the state of Israel. No official assistance was provided by the United States. For the first 17 years of its existence, Israel did not receive any military or economic aid from the United States government. In 1948, individual U.S. citizens attempted to send arms to Israel in violation of the Neutrality Act. Some efforts were successful. Some efforts failed and individuals were prosecuted in federal courts. Some were treated sternly, and others were treated more sympathetically. (The first U.S. military weapons sold to Israel by the U.S. government were a few defensive Hawk antiaircraft missile batteries in 1964.)"

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/751#sthash.n5i49Wpd.dpuf

 

[columbus]

Israel would not won any war without help of West .

Where would Palestinian people be without the Kings of Oil getting $US dollars from westerners?
They'd be dead, that's what.
Without USA money there would be no Israel. But there would be no Palestinians either.

Westerners prevent Israel from blowing up all the Palestinian people. If the Muslims and Jews went to war the way their Scriptures describe the Palestinian people would all be gone. Because Jews are richer and can afford better weapons. Muslims put their trust in Allah, even though He has given the victory to Zionists many times. That is why Israel is so much bigger than it was in 1947. Muslims keep starting wars, and God (if there is one) keeps giving Israel the victories.
Tom

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, I like you. I think that you have good instincts quite a bit, based on what I have read, despite the vast political and geographical gulf that separates us. But just step back for a second and think about what you wrote: "Israel through AIPAC is using USA."

You really think that is true? I mean, one of the richest, most developed and militaristic countries in the world is being used by some tiny Mediterranean country of little to no geopolitical consequence? I know you don't really believe that.

Thanks gsa

you may ignore how much USA helping Israel in economy and military and including politic (VETO) ?

I find this article , but not sure if it's data is credible or not .

http://www.rense.com/general31/rege.htm

 

[Godobeyer]

Where would Palestinian people be without the Kings of Oil getting $US dollars from westerners?
They'd be dead, that's what.
Without USA money there would be no Israel. But there would be no Palestinians either.

Westerners prevent Israel from blowing up all the Palestinian people. If the Muslims and Jews went to war the way their Scriptures describe the Palestinian people would all be gone. Because Jews are richer and can afford better weapons. Muslims put their trust in Allah, even though He has given the victory to Zionists many times. That is why Israel is so much bigger than it was in 1947. Muslims keep starting wars, and God (if there is one) keeps giving Israel the victories.
Tom

Kings of Oil are busy with jihad in p***y , they don't care about poor Palestinians , they affraid from their God (USA) .
some joke about them , they said : kings of oil are praying to white house not Mecca .

do you think Palestinians should accept to live under Israeli occupation and abuse and racist, not in indepenedent country ?

I expect that there will be great war between Muslims and Israeli , but not after oil gone .

 

[Flankerl]

funded by Jewish Zionists and supporters of Israel , to support Israel in UN by politic (VETO) and support Israeli economy and military .

so i consider it as parasite of Israel inside USA , because not Americans whom profit from AIPAC , Israelis whom profit from AIPAC

So when are you going to whine about the Arab/Muslim/3rd World voting bloc which is supported by USSR/Russia?

Never? Okay then.

 

[Godobeyer]

Not the case in 1948. We had an arms embargo against Israel and 5 Arab nations involved. AIPAC didn't exist yet.

"Following World War I, the Balfour Declaration of November 2, 1917 was a product of efforts by President Woodrow Wilson at the urging of Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. At that time, support for a Jewish state by the United States and American Jews was not popular.

Following World War II and the Holocaust, the United Nations General Assembly passed Resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, which devised a plan to partition the British mandate of Palestine. The Jewish community of Palestine accepted the plan, but the Arabs rejected it. Britain withdrew from mandatory Palestine on May 14, 1948, and Israel declared itself a State. Upon Israel's declaration of statehood, both the United States and the Soviet Union immediately recognized the state of Israel.

President Harry Truman, with the urging of his executive assistant, Clark Clifford, acted because he felt"it was the right thing to do." The Soviet motive was less altruistic. Because the government of Israel was controlled by the Labor Party, the Soviets believed Israel would become part of the Soviet Bloc and provide a Soviet entree into the Middle East. Israel chose the West and the Soviets were disappointed. The Soviets then courted favor with Arab countries and developed a hostile position to Israel.

Although the United States immediately recognized Israel, it also strictly enforced the Neutrality Act which prohibited the sale or transfer of any military weapons to Israel. The 1948 War of Independence established the state of Israel. No official assistance was provided by the United States. For the first 17 years of its existence, Israel did not receive any military or economic aid from the United States government. In 1948, individual U.S. citizens attempted to send arms to Israel in violation of the Neutrality Act. Some efforts were successful. Some efforts failed and individuals were prosecuted in federal courts. Some were treated sternly, and others were treated more sympathetically. (The first U.S. military weapons sold to Israel by the U.S. government were a few defensive Hawk antiaircraft missile batteries in 1964.)"

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/751#sthash.n5i49Wpd.dpuf

thanks for these information

just clear up this when " USA had an arms embargo against Israel " ?

how much AIPAC take from USA and give to Israel ?
otherwise , how much USA benefit from Israel ?

 

[Godobeyer]

So when are you going to whine about the Arab/Muslim/3rd World voting bloc which is supported by USSR/Russia?

Never? Okay then.

Russia sell to Arabs and 3rd world , don't give for free

 

[Flankerl]

Which part of voting bloc did you not understand?

Oh and the USSR gave the Arabs quite a lot for free. They did even send their pilots during wars.

 

[Aquitaine]

And you have to add the Russian Jews, the German Jews, The British Jews, The Indian Jews and the whole Jews
in the world are the Jews of Palestine, but the fact is that they're the thieves and they claim that they have the right
to steal from Palestine because few Jews were still living in Palestine.

Wasn't "Palestine" stolen by the Ottomon Empire prior?

 

[columbus]

Kings of Oil are busy with jihad in p***y , they don't care about poor Palestinians , they affraid from their God (USA) .
some joke about them , they said : kings of oil are praying to white house not Mecca .

I know.
Muslims seem more interested in what the USA is doing than what Muslims are doing. Why is that?
I think it is because without the Almighty Dollar muslim leaders would be toppled like straws. Allah does not care enough to support them as well as the USA does. That's why the USA is more powerful in the Muslim world than the mullahs.
I don't like this fact. I would rather have the USA get out of Muslim countries altogether, including buying their oil. But the Muslim leadership doesn't want that any more than ExxonMobil does.
The Muslim world is selling itself to the western greed merchants, a barrel at a time. And they use Islam to justify it, just as western powers use capitalism and democracy to justify their misdeeds.
Tom

 

[dust1n]

thanks for these information

No problem.

just clear up this when " USA had an arms embargo against Israel " ?

An arms embargo is basically when another country makes it illegal to trade arms with another country. So during the duration of the war, it was a crime for anyone in America to sell firearms to Israel, Jordan, Egypt, etc.

how much AIPAC take from USA and give to Israel ?

Oh, boy, that's a lot of information worth of research. AIPAC just gets money to give to politicans to support legislation to keep giving Israel money, basically. But, their influence in the matter is truly just a drop in the bucket, as our legislators mostly answer to arms manufacturers who have no problem seeing war anywhere in the world.

otherwise , how much USA benefit from Israel ?

That's hard to say. To our military, obviously a lot. Otherwise, we wouldn't be so invested in it. I suspect that Israel is America's first go to maintaining whether hegemony it has left in the Middle East. Intangible benefits as well. I mean, having an ally and interacting with the ally comes in handy in general, even though there are costs associated with it.

And people have different values, so I'd image people there case.

But at the end of the day, military policy is probably determined by some 10,000 families in America, 1,000 or something in Israel..

Established militarizes have means to more or less to act in their own interest in a number of ways.

I'm surprised anyone in Algiers even cares about Jews. I'd figure that looming humanitarian disaster in the NW in the country would be more pressing. Good on Algeria for helping the Sahrawi people for so long with minimum problems.

The whole 9/11 Afghan/Iraq war situation sort of changed everything as far as America's concerns in the ME.

 

[metis]

This is not true.
I, like dust1n and most USonians, have no real interest in what happens in the ME concerning Israel. A bunch of Jewish people moved there and are unhappy about the results.
I would rather see the USA invest in Taiwan, another little democracy that is under fire.
Or support any fledgling democracy that tries to do well by the people.
Why should I be forced to subsidize Zionists?
Tom

Do you have a concern of what happens in the Middle East at all? Europe? Asia? Africa? Latin America? We provide aid of all sorts to countries throughout the world, but pretty much no foreign aid is just given out with nothing coming back in return of one type or another.

And why would you aid Taiwan but not Israel? I'm for aid to Taiwan, and we've supplied some, but why not Israel? Is Taiwan so much more important than Israel whereas we can just ignore the latter?

 

[columbus]

Do you have a concern of what happens in the Middle East at all? Europe? Asia? Africa? Latin America? We provide aid of all sorts to countries throughout the world, but pretty much no foreign aid is just given out with nothing coming back in return of one type or another.

Yes, I care about all those places. But less about Israel than most. Because Israel doesn't need humanitarian aid and Africa doesn't get much humanitarian aid. I want the USA to stop giving away death and destruction, and start giving more food and medicine.
Israel does not need my tax dollars the way starving children do. If you want to give Bibi cash go ahead. But don't take mine at IRSpoint and give it to him.

And why would you aid Taiwan but not Israel? I'm for aid to Taiwan, and we've supplied some, but why not Israel? Is Taiwan so much more important than Israel whereas we can just ignore the latter?

Taiwan is a small island of democracy under threat of the Chinese superpower. I want them to continue to exist. They don't get gazillions of US tax dollars or a guaranteed US veto on the UN security council. Why does Israel?
Tom

 

[metis]

Yes, I care about all those places. But less about Israel than most. Because Israel doesn't need humanitarian aid and Africa doesn't get much humanitarian aid. I want the USA to stop giving away death and destruction, and start giving more food and medicine.
Israel does not need my tax dollars the way starving children do. If you want to give Bibi cash go ahead. But don't take mine at IRSpoint and give it to him.

Taiwan is a small island of democracy under threat of the Chinese superpower. I want them to continue to exist. They don't get gazillions of US tax dollars or a guaranteed US veto on the UN security council. Why does Israel?
Tom

Taiwan without a doubt has a potential U.S. veto to watch their back.

Are you against all foreign aid to any country that uses at least some of its money for defense purposes? How about your "hard earned tax dollars" going to protect us here in the States? Should I be forced to "take mine at IRSpoint and give it to" our leaders for military defense and not just "food and medicine"?

If you were to be for non-violence, I could appreciate your position, but I've not picked up those "vibes" from you previously. We have had a long tradition in this country to try and work with and assist our allies, and I don't think deserting them is in our or their best interest-- unless you believe in non-violence of course. Do you? If so, I can very much respect that.

 

[columbus]

Taiwan without a doubt has a potential U.S. veto to watch their back.

"Without a doubt"?
I'm not seeing this. I have the distinct impression that trade consideration is foremost and "democratization" is in the back seat. What makes you think that a Chinese republic like Taiwan will get the sort of support that Israel gets right now?
Communist China is worth multi billions in profit and democratic Taiwan is not. What makes you think we have their back?
Tom

 

[columbus]

Are you against all foreign aid to any country that uses at least some of its money for defense purposes

No.
But I don't want to spend money supporting another countries military, then claim we can't afford to feed poor people or doctor sick people.
Which is what we do.

If a people can pay for a nuclear arsenal and air force and such, they need my financial support less than people who can't feed the kids.
But Israel gets my money and South Sudan doesn't.
Tom

 

[columbus]

Are you against all foreign aid to any country that uses at least some of its money for defense purposes

No.
But I don't want to spend money supporting another countries military, then claim we can't afford to feed poor people or doctor sick people.
Which is what we do.

If a people can pay for a nuclear arsenal and air force and such, they need my financial support less than people who can't feed the kids.
But Israel gets my money and South Sudan doesn't.
Tom