What's the matter with birth control?

[Quiddity]

There's more to the story of Onan, though: in that case, God specifically commands Onan to impregnate his brother's widow, so it would seem to me that it's defiance of God that's the problem there, not the specific method that Onan used to defy God. I mean, Lot's wife was cursed for disobeying God by turning her head, but we don't infer from this that neck movement is bad in general.

The penalty for refusal to continue the family of your brother was public humiliation.

Deut. 25:

8Thereupon the elders of his city shall summon him and speak to him. If he persists in saying, “I do not want to marry her,” 9* his sister-in-law, in the presence of the elders, shall go up to him and strip his sandal from his foot and spit in his face, declaring, “This is how one should be treated who will not build up his brother’s family!” 10And his name shall be called in Israel, “the house of the man stripped of his sandal.”

It was not death.

Unless of course one wishes to say God made an exception here because it was God directly giving the order? But that opens up a whole can of worms.

 

[arcanum]

Well not trying to be denigrating to Catholicism but I think some of the rational behind it, besides digging up old testament stories to justify it, is if the church encouraged the use of birth control there would be less Catholics.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

It is my understanding that the Catholic church still bans birth control methods. What is the reasoning behind this?

Competition. This is a hold over from the time when it was important to have more people to protect your lands and people from invaders. Also, at this time infant mortallity was high so having more babies was a good thing. These things are built into our psyches at an almost instinctual level making it hard for some to see the intellectual side.

 

[Falvlun]

Jumping back to the OP...


They give their rationale in the Papal encyclical Humani Generis. My take on the argument:

We can infer from the design of human beings that God intended sexuality and reproduction to be linked. Therefore, it goes against God's intended order to have sexuality without reproduction (the possibility of it, at least) or reproduction without sex.


Seeing how the same argument could be used to argue that treadmills and non-walking modes of transportation defy God's will as well (since they break the link between walking and locomotion apparent in God's "design"), I don't think it passes muster.

Great point. Or what about eating Oreos or other delicious things without much nutritional value? This too unlinks the purpose of eating from its "intended" function. And yet, you don't see so much hullabaloo over Girl Scout Cookies.

Competition. This is a hold over from the time when it was important to have more people to protect your lands and people from invaders. Also, at this time infant mortallity was high so having more babies was a good thing. These things are built into our psyches at an almost instinctual level making it hard for some to see the intellectual side.

This was kinda my feelings too-- back in the day, it was important (or at least, more important than it is now) to have as many kids as possible. But their anti-birth control has been reaffirmed well into the modern age. I don't think it can hold water anymore.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't think it can hold water anymore.

Lots of things we do out of tradition don't hold water anymore. The tie was created to hid the buttons on a shirt. It isn't necessary any more but we still wear them. Why? Tradition over common sense.

 

[waitasec]

here's a thought...
maybe it's the fact that we can control certain things gives credence to the notion our control offends god...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

here's a thought...
maybe the notion of having control, in this case birth control, offends god?

More like the idea of an individual having control offends the priesthood. IMHO

 

[waitasec]

More like the idea of an individual having control offends the priesthood. IMHO

that's more along the lines of what i meant to say... i realized after i hit "submit reply" i didn't express what i was saying...i mean thinking... hee hee

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Thankfully passing genes doesn't always work quite like that since dumb parents are likely to have smart children.

Yeah, look at all the geniuses coming out of the trailer parks.

 

[idav]

Yeah, look at all the geniuses coming out of the trailer parks.

Ouch. Well I just meant it has a lot to do with whether you had smart grand parents. There could be hidden smart genes as other hidden traits that just pop out of seemingly nowhere. Either way people in general are pretty sharp, not that we always use it for anything. And for some weird reason people like killing brain cells and calling it a good time.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Ouch. Well I just meant it has a lot to do with whether you had smart grand parents. There could be hidden smart genes as other hidden traits that just pop out of seemingly nowhere. Either way people in general are pretty sharp, not that we always use it for anything. And for some weird reason people like killing brain cells and calling it a good time.

Killing brain cells is a tradition going back 8000 years at the very least, probably further.

History of beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Beer is one of the world's oldest beverages, with the history of beer dating back to 6000 BC, and being recorded in the written history of Ancient Iraq. The earliest Sumerian writings contain references to beer. A prayer to the goddess Ninkasi known as "The Hymn to Ninkasi" serves as both a prayer as well as a method of remembering the recipe for beer in a culture with few literate people.

 

[waitasec]

Ouch. Well I just meant it has a lot to do with whether you had smart grand parents. There could be hidden smart genes as other hidden traits that just pop out of seemingly nowhere. Either way people in general are pretty sharp, not that we always use it for anything. And for some weird reason people like killing brain cells and calling it a good time.

i think most people have the potential...
i also think the circumstances of someone's upbringing has a lot to do with it too. there are people who come from slums and rise above it, but unfortunately people are also inclined to go the easy way and never challenge the status quo

natural selection...

 

[cablescavenger]

The key is that the catholic church wants you to feel guilty about wanting to have sex so you need the priests to make you feel better.

If you want to organize your family in some rational way, you need to not produce children much of the time. If you are not allowed birth control, you will have to abstain from sex most of the time and will wind up having what the senile perverts in the Vatican call "impure thoughts". That will produce the feelings of guilt that the priests feed upon.

My view is that it is about growth, growing numbers, members, revenues etc. and at one time it was necessary for war.

If you limit births you faith will not grow as fast as the opposition, and has a good chance of dying out along with the revenues that come along with it.

I believe there have been religions that promoted abstinence from sex, that died out lol

 

[idav]

Killing brain cells is a tradition going back 8000 years at the very least, probably further.

History of beer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No doubt. And these days it's much needed when your team loses the NFC championship.

 

[Me Myself]

I believe there have been religions that promoted abstinence from sex, that died out lol

Not jainism certainly

 

[idav]

i think most people have the potential...
i also think the circumstances of someone's upbringing has a lot to do with it too. there are people who come from slums and rise above it, but unfortunately people are also inclined to go the easy way and never challenge the status quo

natural selection...

I agree and luckily our average IQ will always be 100 whether or not we get smarter.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

It is my understanding that the Catholic church still bans birth control methods. What is the reasoning behind this? And, if you are a Christian, do you or don't you accept that reasoning?

Also, I was curious if other religious traditions banned birth control, and what their reasons were as well.

It just seems to me that we have been quite fruitful, and we have certainly multiplied, to the point where humans are no longer able to be good stewards of the Earth.

Additionally, birth control allows families to better raise children they already have, by better organizing their finances and time. What is the problem with this?

The way I see it, if you're of the maximize worldly pleasure, minimize consequences mindset, then yes; being pro-life is all kinds of wrong at every level. I suspect this is the major reason why you see a problem with banning birth control devices in the first place.

 

[Falvlun]

The way I see it, if you're of the maximize worldly pleasure, minimize consequences mindset, then yes; being pro-life is all kinds of wrong at every level. I suspect this is the major reason why you see a problem with banning birth control devices in the first place.

So, what is your reason to oppose birth control? Also, I was not aware that this was an LDS position-- is it, or is it just your personal take?

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about abortion; I'm talking about things like the pill, or condoms, that prevent conception from occurring. I'm also talking about it not just in light of teenagers who want to have sex without repercussions; I'm talking about the newlyweds who financially aren't quite ready for a family, or the couple who already has 2 kids, and would prefer to concentrate their resources on them, rather than more kids.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

One more thing to consider is that for the priesthood to embrace birth control would mean admiting they were wrong in the past. If they do that then what else might they have been wrong about? They don't want to open that can of worms.

 

[Falvlun]

One more thing to consider is that for the priesthood to embrace birth control would mean admiting they were wrong in the past. If they do that then what else might they have been wrong about? They don't want to open that can of worms.

Well, the Catholic church has embraced heliocentrism and evolution, despite past stances. As lumbering as such a large organization steeped in cherished tradition can be, it still has been able to change.