What's Wrong With Suffering?

[sandy whitelinger]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

 

[sayak83]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

Suffering is defined as those experiences and events that are distressing in valence for a person experiencing them. Thus they are negative experiences (pain, trauma, depression, anxiety, stress, meaninglessness etc.). It's their negative, bitter qualia that makes them unwanted and hence bad as experienced. That's what makes them wrong as we wish our experiences to have positive, sweet qualia.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It can cause death, which is the opposite of a long and happy life.

 

[`mud]

What kind of suffering ?
Too many drinks the night before ?
Hot sand on a blazing hot beach ?
Sunburn from a blazing sun on that same beach ?
The loss of a close and dearly loved one ?
A terrible loss on the stock market ?
And on and on and on.....
More explicit please....
What does God have to with any of this `suffering`, He doesn't cause it.
Unless one is a biblist, then it is God that is responsible for everything !
Take an advil, then a beer....then prayer a lot !

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Suffering is defined as those experiences and events that are distressing in valence for a person experiencing them. Thus they are negative experiences (pain, trauma, depression, anxiety, stress, meaninglessness etc.). It's their negative, bitter qualia that makes them unwanted and hence bad as experienced. That's what makes them wrong as we wish our experiences to have positive, sweet qualia.

What makes them negative?

According to the dictionary definition suffering is the state of undergoing pain, distress or hardship.

And why can't suffering be sweet?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

What kind of suffering ?
Too many drinks the night before ?
Hot sand on a blazing hot beach ?
Sunburn from a blazing sun on that same beach ?
The loss of a close and dearly loved one ?
A terrible loss on the stock market ?
And on and on and on.....
More explicit please....
What does God have to with any of this `suffering`, He doesn't cause it.
Unless one is a biblist, then it is God that is responsible for everything !
Take an advil, then a beer....then prayer a lot !

Suffering in general. All of the above.

 

[JesusMyFriend]

First I shouldn't think God allows suffering, but when it happens he can only show his love to us and help us through difficult times, that's all.
Second, I guess it depends on what suffering you are talking about. But I really don't understand your question of "what's wrong with suffering?". Maybe you mean to say that it is normal? Then I agree.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It can cause death, which is the opposite of a long and happy life.

Is death bad?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

First I shouldn't think God allows suffering, but when it happens he can only show his love to us and help us through difficult times, that's all.
Second, I guess it depends on what suffering you are talking about. But I really don't understand your question of "what's wrong with suffering?". Maybe you mean to say that it is normal? Then I agree.

People condemn God because of suffering in the world. This implies that suffering is an evil. Why is it evil?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

People condemn God because of suffering in the world. This implies that suffering is an evil. Why is it evil?

Nobody bats an eye if a parent allows the temporary pain of, for example, getting a blood test. Because the positive net benefit of the test outweighs the suffering. The problem is where people have illogical and unreasonable ideas about what constitutes acceptable amounts of suffering. If a parent watches their child drowning, and does not aknwledge the suffering of that child is not to the child's benefit and help them out, we would call that criminal neglect. If the parent let the child drown because 'they chose to play next to the pool' or 'Because they didn't love me enough to warrant my involvement' we would call that child abuse. Because the suffering involved doesn't in any way balance with benefit.
And that's how many see the Abrahamic God. See: Problem of Evil

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Nobody bats an eye if a parent allows the temporary pain of, for example, getting a blood test. Because the positive net benefit of the test outweighs the suffering. The problem is where people have illogical and unreasonable ideas about what constitutes acceptable amounts of suffering. If a parent watches their child drowning, and does not aknwledge the suffering of that child is not to the child's benefit and help them out, we would call that criminal neglect. If the parent let the child drown because 'they chose to play next to the pool' or 'Because they didn't love me enough to warrant my involvement' we would call that child abuse. Because the suffering involved doesn't in any way balance with benefit.
And that's how many see the Abrahamic God. See: Problem of Evil

Very eloquently stated. You seem to have started with the presumption that suffering is bad. Why?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Very eloquently stated. You seem to have started with the presumption that suffering is bad. Why?

Suffering is by definition a negative effect. That doesn't mean there can't be positive effects associated with an action or state which causes suffering, but where positive effect doesn't outweigh negative effect, then there is more negative. More bad than good.
For example, exercise causes muscle tearing, which is bad. Exercise also causes muscle strengthening after a period of muscle healing, which is good.
But there are limits to what the body can heal. Too much tearing is bad, because there is no net benefit.

 

[Sunstone]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

That's a very curious question to ask given that just about any rational, observant person who has ever suffered (which includes all of us) can simply observe for themselves what's wrong with suffering. Suffering isn't one of those things that cannot be observed firsthand, and it isn't one of those things that only happens to some of us, but not to all of us. So why would one pretend there's a need to ask? You seem in posts in this thread to admit that you have an ideological reason for denying that suffering is bad.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I put this in the Religious Debate section because I often hear that God is bad because He allows suffering. Alright, pony up. What's wrong with suffering.

Why? Is it broken?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well in God's defense we all are not innocent children.

It wouldn't matter if it was a noninnocent adult in this scenario. If someone is drowning I would not hesitate to assist. If I did not assist when I could, I would be allowing their unnecessary suffering through my inaction. To me trying to blame the suffering if the drowning man on himself or others to excuse my neglect would just be scapegoating and passing the buck.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Suffering is by definition a negative effect.

Show me that definition.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Suffering is bad because it makes people turn from God...

Hogwash. Makes me turn toward Him.

Yet I fail to see how that inherently makes suffering bad. I suffer from a small bladder. Ef God, right.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

That's a very curious question to ask given that just about any rational, observant person who has ever suffered (which includes all of us) can simply observe for themselves what's wrong with suffering. Suffering isn't one of those things that cannot be observed firsthand, and it isn't one of those things that only happens to some of us, but not to all of us. So why would one pretend there's a need to ask? You seem in posts in this thread to admit that you have an ideological reason for denying that suffering is bad.

So we don't like suffering. Does that make it bad? I don't like pissing but ignoring it is problematic.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Why? Is it broken?

Works just fine. I'm suffering your answer.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Show me that definition.

Mirriam Webster defines suffer as to sustain loss or damage in transitive verb form.
To sustain loss or damage are both negative effects. Taking something away from the whole.