What's your position on the morality of altering ones state of mind recreationally?

[Alex_G]

I am quite firmly in the anti-drug camp, with a vengeance, and having entered the inscription queue twice for emphasis. The very existence of psychoactives bothers me greatly. It takes the utmost effort for me to have respect for anyone that I know to be an user of anything from marijuana or alcohol up. Even tobacco is difficult at times. I actually have more respect for suicidal people.
I like to think that I feel so because to me there is no more precious thing than one's own mental balance. Wanting to intentionally upset it is quite absurd to my sensibilities.
Come to think of it, the existence of psychoactives and of people who want to use them is one of the reasons why I don't believe that there is a creator god. It seems obvious and intuitive to me that a creator god wouldn't allow that to be.

I don't think I make any distinctions between myself and others in this regard. I find psychoactive drug use demeaning by definition. It is not a personal or relative thing far as I am concerned.

It is true that the five main precepts of Sila do advise against drug use, but this is more a matter of my chosing the faith by that criteria than of it convincing me.

My gut feeling is that I must have misunderstood the question, quite frankly. It sounds like asking why red is considered a different color than blue.

To anyone who wants to be respected as a sensible and sentient being, and to anyone who is connected in any significant way to any of those.

Which is to say, to everyone.

Far as I can tell, to reach mental and corporal states that they enjoy, to find relief from certain unpleasant or just boring mental states, and as part of some kind of rituals of social bonding or of identity search.

Firstly thanks for posting, (as I thank everyone). I can very much relate to where you’re coming from, this sense of respect for yourself both body and mind, quite a purist approach to life.

I wonder, as you use the term ‘balance’ which I liked, if people use some substance in a way as to alleviate pressures and discontent in their lives, say for example as mild an example as having a few beers on the weekend, helping to loosen their social awkwardness, and disengage from the pressures of the week, to what balance might you be referring to? In a sense one could see the drug use as balancing or countering an already unbalanced life?

Not that that’s necessarily good of course, but just to point out the less than ideal lives that people live, the coercion and power of surrounding culture and society that could render some (if not many) far from ‘balanced’ as they might have been in a better world. The drive to try certain substances as not so much greed for pleasure, or even simple escapism (although that can be the case), but rather listening to the distant voice of their true self, a yearning to break free from the day to day forces that turn people into those tame conventional creatures, utterly muted and constrained from being free spirits. In doing so could they not be seen as acting in the name of their true balanced self, rather than it being simply random irresponsible abuse and misuse?

I think, in so far as why people do it, that it itself is not the root problem, the illness to be cured by simply adding yet another rule of prohibition to people’s lives, but rather that it’s a symptom of an ill and broken society. That people are so constrained, coerced and warped into some ‘standard citizen’ version of themselves that all that burying down of one’s own free nature bubbles up in the desire to break free, even if temporarily, and in many cases through the use of such substances.

That if we could alleviate these sorts of insidious coercive pressures from the way we live as a society, then many of the problems we encounter such as 'over' use of substances and so forth, might improve in kind.

Some thoughts I had, not to be taken as some direct challenge to you or anything, but just bouncing them off your reply for discussion and consideration.

 

[Me Myself]

That's true, it does depend on the drug. I meant the more intense drugs should stay illegal. Marijuana is illegal in most states- but although it does cause health problems, so does alcohol. I am undecided on whether it should be made legal nationally or not, however.

Alcohol causes way more problems than marijuana, and I understand so does cigarrette.

 

[ChristineES]

Alcohol causes way more problems than marijuana, and I understand so does cigarrette.

I heard it causes less problems than alcohol. But I heard that it has more cancer causing chemicals than cigarettes. No one I know ever died directly from pot, but I do know people have died of complications of alcohol abuse and alcohol poisoning.

 

[LuisDantas]

Firstly thanks for posting, (as I thank everyone).

You're welcome.

I can very much relate to where you’re coming from, this sense of respect for yourself both body and mind, quite a purist approach to life.

I think of myself as something of a lover of mental health. "Purist" is probably accurate too.

I wonder, as you use the term ‘balance’ which I liked, if people use some substance in a way as to alleviate pressures and discontent in their lives, say for example as mild an example as having a few beers on the weekend, helping to loosen their social awkwardness, and disengage from the pressures of the week, to what balance might you be referring to?

The connection between what one experiences and what one feels. Even when psychoactive medicine is doubtlessly needed, it hinders that connection and "discalibrates" it.

In my experience that may sometimes be a lesser evil, but it is never good.

In a sense one could see the drug use as balancing or countering an already unbalanced life?

In one sense, yes. A very immediate, arguably biased or at least restricted sense.

Not that that’s necessarily good of course, but just to point out the less than ideal lives that people live, the coercion and power of surrounding culture and society that could render some (if not many) far from ‘balanced’ as they might have been in a better world.

That is certainly true, and a major reason why people use drugs at all.

I happen to think that it is also a major reason to avoid using them with a passion. The problems that make them appealing must be perceived and challenged, solved.

Accepting drugs as self-medication, as a legitimate recreational activity, or even as a plain escape is IMO destructive. It masks the symptoms of serious problems without actually contributing to any solutions. Meanwhile, the problems continue to grow unchallenged or even unperceived.

The drive to try certain substances as not so much greed for pleasure, or even simple escapism (although that can be the case), but rather listening to the distant voice of their true self, a yearning to break free from the day to day forces that turn people into those tame conventional creatures, utterly muted and constrained from being free spirits. In doing so could they not be seen as acting in the name of their true balanced self, rather than it being simply random irresponsible abuse and misuse?

What does drug use have to do with listening to oneself?

I'm at a loss even imagining what you are talking about.

I think, in so far as why people do it, that it itself is not the root problem, the illness to be cured by simply adding yet another rule of prohibition to people’s lives, but rather that it’s a symptom of an ill and broken society. That people are so constrained, coerced and warped into some ‘standard citizen’ version of themselves that all that burying down of one’s own free nature bubbles up in the desire to break free, even if temporarily, and in many cases through the use of such substances.

I guess I just don't believe that it is at all possible. It sounds more like science fiction than anything else.

That if we could alleviate these sorts of insidious coercive pressures from the way we live as a society, then many of the problems we encounter such as 'over' use of substances and so forth, might improve in kind.

I agree, quite emphatically in fact. Which is one of my main reasons to want to see drugs stop being used.

Some thoughts I had, not to be taken as some direct challenge to you or anything, but just bouncing them off your reply for discussion and consideration.

Thanks. Do you think you can clarify some of my doubts above? By PM if need be?

 

[LuisDantas]

I heard it causes less problems than alcohol. But I heard that it has more cancer causing chemicals than cigarettes. No one I know ever died directly from pot, but I do know people have died of complications of alcohol abuse and alcohol poisoning.

I don't know that being nonlethal makes pot better than tobacco, though. I have met people that were utterly ruined in part by relying on it. And I amcertainly not about to say that what brings no risk to survival itself should be considered safe.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Relative, depends on the rug

 

[Me Myself]

Relative, depends on the rug

Priceless

 

[Quintessence]

When it comes to the use of psychoactive drugs - the class that it seems the OP wishes to focus on - my rules are pretty simple.

Use for religious or medical purposes only, and only where legal in your nation of residence. Use for recreational purposes or as a coping strategy is strongly discouraged, but it's not like I can control what people do.

I'd say my religious beliefs enter into it insofar as use of psychoactive substances has a long history in Pagan traditions. Such usages should be protected on the grounds of religious freedom, though religions that use such substances often encounter difficult legal battles (consider the case of peyote). When psychoactive substances are used primarily in a religious or medicinal context, they tend to be treated with more respect as they are connected with the sacred, rather than cast as a 'getaway' or 'fashionably risque' habit. Risk of addiction and misuse is low given the cultural associations with the sacred.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

yes, i think that each drug should be researched first before legalizing, researched to see what effects it causes/could cause on the human brain both psychoactive and biolgical health. and recreational use imo is okay

 

[Alex_G]

Thanks. Do you think you can clarify some of my doubts above? By PM if need be?

Ah ye np. I guess what i was getting at with that bit was trying to frame people as perhaps being in a state of imbalance in their lives via societal pressures, and so the drive they have in which they attempt to break the cycle of this societal life through an appeal to drugs could come from an innate desire to be balanced, in the way that you mention.

It was an attempt to take your respect for 'balance' and show its possible presence in the actions of some of these people, in an attempt to maybe modulate your described loathing/lack of respect for all people who engage in such things.

i.e. You respect balance and as such it motivates your anti drug position, and also motivates your total lack of respect for those that do engage in it. So to perhaps show these people in a light that suggests they are in fact working with the same motive as you in seeking balance, just that their method is what varies you might consider lessening your contempt for them.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

firstly my heart has to go out to all the people who have to endure the tortureous life of living the concequences of drug or alcahol abuse , or those trying to help or protect others from the consequences of all forms of adiction , watching ones family (or any human being) being destroyed , and ones loved ones or any inocent bystander being abused by one person in the clitches of addiction whether it is alcahol drugs or what ever , .... is no joke , ...it destroys lives and not just those of the adict .

ok some of you think it is cool ? ...some that it is life inhancing ? ... and some of you are fortunate not to have had bad experiences or long lasting consequences , ....

but please look around you , and be honnest how many people have you met that have seriously screwed up their lives and the lives of others around them ?

unfortunately there are too many casualties , some end up dead but before they finaly kill their own bodies they do untold damage to others around them , who dont die , who have to live in the wake of such fatalities .
then there are those who after relitavely short periods of use develop psychotic dissorders which stay with the person and their family for life .

sorry it is no joke , ....and you cant outlaw it any more than you can dancing ! but re evaluating our attitudes and educating the future generations , ..yes !

so I am sorry but my attitude is that before you start thinking of indulging in any form of potentialy dangerous substances , do others a favor contemplate the selfishness of the action .

I accept that many think this is a pretty staunch attitude ? .... yes it is !

if you want to dellude your selves that you are on a path to enlightenment , stop and think about it a little carefully many others have accived as much if not more without assistance .

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Who could sit through a Cubs game?

Good question.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

I'm anti-drug. I've personally experienced the effects of drugs, and regardless of anyone's claim that some drugs are harmless, they've never experienced withdrawal or bad trips, or ended up in hospital having collapsed unconcious. I have.

 

[SageTree]

So if it is illegal anywhere in the US it is treated as illegal in the US per forum rules?

Interesting...

You should start an Site Feedback thread.

I can mostly just guess.

 

[SageTree]

Wait a second, how can we discuss and support gay marriage and not legal use of marijuana? What is the difference between the two?

My guess would be one is illegal and the other isn't not legally recognized, but not a criminal offense.

However... another good SF question.

 

[Me Myself]

My guess would be one is illegal and the other isn't not legally recognized, but not a criminal offense.

However... another good SF question.

Yeah some others also told me, didnt saw that, though it should have been obvious

I any case, the thing is that the poll option "pro drugs" would be technically directly against forum rules so... This kind of thread is kind of very limited...

I mean ñi have notng against the topic and would love to exore it furtherm but
I understand it is not really possible in RF.

Thats my understanding on it at least :ninja:

 

[SageTree]

I think that even saying 'pro' isn't saying 'YO SMOKE THAT !!!'



Intelligent, respectful, more objective approaches in conversations have generally be okay here.

 

[Me Myself]

I think that even saying 'pro' isn't saying 'YO SMOKE THAT !!!'



Intelligent, respectful, more objective approaches in conversations have generally be okay here.

I think the rules say you cannot "support" it.

 

[SageTree]

If you think it's a violation, report it and bring it to the attention of the other mods.
So far none of the mods in this thread think it's an offense to the rules at this point.

Peace.

 

[Me Myself]

If you think it's a violation, report it and bring it to the attention of the other mods.
So far none of the mods in this thread think it's an offense to the rules at this point.

Peace.

Supporting ilegal drugs is not a violation of the not support ilegal acts rule?

Its just I want to talk abut it... But I am just not following what can I say or not.

So I do can support...? i am sorry I am lost