When And How?

[Jimmy]

There are several possibilities, and hence beliefs, as to when, how, and why (if any such) what we experience as existence came to be. In the past (long ago), our ancestors would hardly have even contemplated such questions (just inventing various easily understood variations), and in the future (if we survive), our descendants will likely have better knowledge than we have currently - but even then, the truth might not be forthcoming. For us now, we are not really in a position to have the true answers, and hence will likely choose one explanation (out of many) for various reasons - usually that which makes sense to us with the knowledge and abilities we have. For me, the honest answer is we don't know but some explanations are less likely than others - especially those relying on old religious textual material. We do seem to have sufficient evidence to justify beliefs as to the age of our current universe but anything beyond that is open to speculation - but then I am not a physicist or astrophysicist.

Thanks for sharing

 

[Jimmy]

Let me help you out a bit.

There are spectrums of beleif/speculation about what you stated, and some beleifs though claimed to be different in some form of fashion fall into the following groups.

1. Beleif that the universe/reality always existed, beyond the realm of what humans can define in English as always.
2. Beleif that the universe/reality always existed, within the realm of what humans can define in English as always.
3. Beleif that the universe/reality in its current format did not always exist. Possibily predated by something else.
4. Beleif that the universe/reality in its current format did not always exist, and nothing that can be defined by English verbage can describe what nothing meant.
5. Beleif that the universe/reality in its current format did not always existed, and it was created by something that is beyond itself being created.
6. Beleif that the universe/reality in its current format did not always existed, and it was created by what English speakers describe as a god.
7. Beleif that the universe/reality in its current format did not always existed, and it was created by what English speakers describe as a gods, in the plural. One of these gods created the others and in turn they created universe/reality.
8. Beleif that no one, human, knows how the universe/reality came about.
9. Beleif that someone, human, knows how the universe/reality came about.
10. Claim that some human/humans were informed by the source of reality/creation small details about how things were created. Said source does not fit within the English term god.
11. On going research into how the universe/reality came about with no personal/religious assumptions about what the findings are.
12. etc. etc. etc.

Thank you but I only see the 2 camps

 

[Jimmy]

Well, as a skeptic it is unknown to me, how the universe is in the objective sense of being in itself, so I don't know if it started or not, has always been here or not or any other version of how it is as such.

I hear ya

 

[Jimmy]

There is a third...and likely many more. Not everyone fits neatly into your two proposed boxes. I don't.

I only see two.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So there’s two camps in life. The first camp are people that believe God created the universe and all of existence. In the other camp are people that believe that the universe and existence has always been here. The key questions here, if you’re in the first camp, are when did existence come to be and how? That’s where all the religions come in and offer up different viewpoints. Truly, there was only one way imo.

You have to bear in mind that there's also a 'camp' that it's not privy to conclusions and are waiting and researching for the adequate information to surface if it ever does with no opinion.

There's also others who see such questions as incorrigible and unanswerable and think nothing of the matter except the here and now.

 

[Jimmy]

You have to bear in mind that there's also a 'camp' that it's not privy to conclusions and are waiting and researching for the adequate information to surface if it ever does with no opinion.

There's also others who see such questions as incorrigible and unanswerable and think nothing of the matter except the here and now.

I don’t place those people in a camp. See post 8,9, and 10

 

[SalixIncendium]

I only see two.

Hopefully you’ll one day have the ability to remove the blinders.

 

[Jimmy]

Hopefully you’ll one day have the ability

I’ve talked to many. No ones convinced me yet. Either existence has always been here or not imo. It’s quite simple.

 

[Revoltingest]

So there’s two camps in life. The first camp are people that believe God created the universe and all of existence. In the other camp are people that believe that the universe and existence has always been here. The key questions here, if you’re in the first camp, are when did existence come to be and how? That’s where all the religions come in and offer up different viewpoints. Truly, there was only one way imo.

I'm in the camp that we're ill equipped to even
define what the "universe" is. Thus it's simply
not knowable.
Do universes that we observe come & go?
Would those together constitute a universe?

 

[Jimmy]

I'm in the camp that we're ill equipped to even
define what the "universe" is. Thus it's simply
not knowable.
Do universes that we observe come & go?
Would those together constitute a universe?

Universe and all of existence…

 

[Revoltingest]

Universe and all of existence…

Can you describe all that is
known & not yet known, or
not even knowable?

 

[Jimmy]

Can you describe all that is
known & not yet known, or
not even knowable?

Infinite material space. Just more stars, black holes and planets etc. it’s straightforward imo. Nothing that mysterious.

 

[Revoltingest]

Infinite material space. Just more stars, black holes and planets etc. it’s straightforward imo. Nothing that mysterious.

You'd say with certainty that nothing
else exists...no multi-verse...no other
universes?

 

[Jimmy]

You'd say with certainty that nothing
else exists...no multi-verse...no other
universes?

I think there’s just one. A lot of people believe in many. Either way it’s still all of existence which is infinite in space.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think there’s just one.

That doesn't sound like certainty.

 

[Jimmy]

That doesn't sound like certainty.

Did you know that one can think something and know it’s true?

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you know that one can think something and know it’s true?

Just by belief.
Color me highly skeptical.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I’ve talked to many. No ones convinced me yet. Either existence has always been here or not imo. It’s quite simple.

You dropped "universe" from the equation. It is my understanding that existence is eternal. The universe...not so much.

This is why you hear terms like one previously used in this thread; "the universe came into existence."

Existence is the substrate on which the universe appears. The terms concepts should not be conflated.

 

[Jimmy]

That doesn't sound like certainty.

So anyway, what camp u fall in?

You dropped "universe" from the equation. It is my understanding that existence is eternal. The universe...not so much.

This is why you hear terms like one previously used in this thread; "the universe came into existence."

Existence is the substrate on which the universe appears. The terms concepts should not be conflated.

my initial post said the universe and all of existence. That covers it all including those who think the universe is all of existence, such as myself. So either the universe and all of existence has always been here or not. It’s one or the other in my opinion.

 

[Jimmy]

You dropped "universe" from the equation. It is my understanding that existence is eternal. The universe...not so much.

This is why you hear terms like one previously used in this thread; "the universe came into existence."

Existence is the substrate on which the universe appears. The terms concepts should not be conflated.

OK, so if somebody believes the universe came into existence and that existence is the eternal substrate then they fall in camp 2.

Like I said in my original post, camp 2 are people who believe the universe and all of existence has always been here. Yeah, sure, the semantics of it is that they may believe that the universe popped into existence along the way. But it still remains they’re in camp 2.