Brainwashing, eh.
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When Cops Are Indistinguishable From Criminals
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
I agree.
Heyo
Veteran Member
If this keeps happening, I'll have to change forums. Whenever too many people agree with me too often, I feel I might be in a bubble.
Worry not...I have many revolting/offensive/wrong opinions.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I know, we share some.
Sounds like the opposite of Tacitus' quote: “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.”
I guess it's a chicken-egg question. Does the state need more laws because it's unhealthy and full of problems? Or does the presence of extra laws cause the problems to begin with?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
We have rights to protect us from the pigs but the ignore those rights, neglect to act on thise rights, and harass, fine, falsely imprison, beat, rape, amd murder with impunity (interesting and infuriating fact, it is NOT illegal in most states for pigs to have sex with those they have detained). We HAVE those rights. The pigs need to learn to respect those rights.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Excessive laws are the problem. Like drug laws. Thise created so many problems I hesitate to say it solved anything, especially since Uncle Sam himself was a crack dealer.
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
Why are we assuming that the cops in that case weren't doing what they were told to do? It's quite possible that they were acting by the book, and the book just happened to be terrible and not very good at dealing with situations like this.
That's true, although I think the drug laws are a direct result of corruption.
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
As far as I have read/heard, it allowed the police to crack down hard on potentially armed groups of people of color, as well as hippies and other counterculture groups, without any negative media backlash.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That goes back much further than the official War on Drugs, going hack at least to the early 20th century, with a great example of the racism behind drug laws coming from US Senator Harry Anslinger who said "darkies smoke marijuana to think they're as good as white folk." Jazz was also demonized in connection with black people, the "devils weed," and always drug using groups (such as the Chinese and opium) are a risk to white women because they nefariously use their drugs to lure the women in to be ravaged, defiled, and made to do sexual things no proper woman would do.
Heyo
Veteran Member
When you study how those laws came into being, thinking becomes knowing. Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 - Wikipedia
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
What is your definition of murder?
What is your definition of manslaughter?
What is your definition of dreadful accident?
That's the legal definition I want....... not your idea, ok?
About your description of this one incident......
The 'cops' are briefed on a job before they go. And because they work in America they can expect any property to have lots of guns. If somebody starts trying to kill them on entry it can affect their immediate viewpoint............. so the worst accusation against them could be manslaughter, I reckon.
I know this incident was very bad, but your 'cops' face death-on-duty every day and this builds up in to trauma which your country doesn't seem to recognise or provide for. You want perfect decisions from people doing a job (all the time in danger) and your opinion of that performance will always be decided in your armchair with 20-20 vision.
None of those law enforcers, police, sheriffs, whoever, murdered anybody in that home entry, Revolting.
Heyo
Veteran Member
US law isn't as clear cut as you think it is. You can be sentenced for murder even if you weren't at the scene (e.g. as the get-away driver in a bank robbery gone south).
You can also be charged for murder when you didn't plan to kill someone but arranged for the possibility. (E.g. when you go to a meeting with your ex, which you have reason to believe will get emotional, and you bring a gun.)
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
OK..... I get those kinds of crimes....
But if a law enforcer can be ordered to enter a building suddenly, and believes that bad people might be within, and he gets shot at, and he returns shots ............. any death could only be manslaughter, surely? Indeed, the officer/s could well be cleared of any crimes.
This was a mess!
In this location (I have read) the police broke in wearing plain clothes, no uniforms. That's not the individual's faults but the system's.
No proper armoured police were used....... just plain clothes!!!.
The police claim that they banged on doors and called out. Walker claims they didn't.
See Walker's claim that he 'called 911, grabbed a gun and fired.....' just like that...... Nah!
A mess! The police authority needs sorting out with its tactics, obviously, but the individual police officers were acting under instructions. I certainly would not join such a police force that might send me in to danger at any moment, and then have me convicted of murder if I make a bad mistake.
----------------------------------------------
One report:-
Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, were asleep in their apartment when just before 1 a.m. on March 13 three plainclothes officers with the Louisville Metro Police Department arrived to execute a search warrant in a drug case.
Walker called 911, grabbed a gun and fired, (shooting an officer in the leg. He had a license to carry and kept firearms in the home, and Taylor was unarmed.
At a March 13 news conference, police Lt. Ted Eidem said officers had knocked on the door several times and “announced their presence as police who were there with a search warrant.” After forcing their way in, they “were immediately met by gunfire,” Eidem said.
But the lawsuit by Taylor's family says that police did not knock or identify themselves before they busted into the apartment.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yes, this was a mess and I don't envy those who have to sort it out.OK..... I get those kinds of crimes....
But if a law enforcer can be ordered to enter a building suddenly, and believes that bad people might be within, and he gets shot at, and he returns shots ............. any death could only be manslaughter, surely? Indeed, the officer/s could well be cleared of any crimes.
This was a mess!
In this location (I have read) the police broke in wearing plain clothes, no uniforms. That's not the individual's faults but the system's.
No proper armoured police were used....... just plain clothes!!!.
The police claim that they banged on doors and called out. Walker claims they didn't.
See Walker's claim that he 'called 911, grabbed a gun and fired.....' just like that...... Nah!
A mess! The police authority needs sorting out with its tactics, obviously, but the individual police officers were acting under instructions. I certainly would not join such a police force that might send me in to danger at any moment, and then have me convicted of murder if I make a bad mistake.
----------------------------------------------
One report:-
Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, were asleep in their apartment when just before 1 a.m. on March 13 three plainclothes officers with the Louisville Metro Police Department arrived to execute a search warrant in a drug case.
Walker called 911, grabbed a gun and fired, (shooting an officer in the leg. He had a license to carry and kept firearms in the home, and Taylor was unarmed.
At a March 13 news conference, police Lt. Ted Eidem said officers had knocked on the door several times and “announced their presence as police who were there with a search warrant.” After forcing their way in, they “were immediately met by gunfire,” Eidem said.
But the lawsuit by Taylor's family says that police did not knock or identify themselves before they busted into the apartment.
"Just following orders" is no excuse and if it were, the one giving the order should be persecuted. In any way this wasn't an accident, it was at least neglect homicide, by the officers, their commanding officer or both.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
That's a kind of manslaughter....... not murder, then.
The system needs to be sent to prison, then.
But the officers.......... nobody yet (to my knowledge) has ever acknowledged that US law enforcement officers are all suffering from post and present traumatic stress disorders caused by the huge risks that they operate within.
Put a person under daily traumatic stress caused by 'clear and present gun danger' and see what you get........ you get people who can knee-jerk their decisions and actions instantly........ and then everyday people who never faced such situations themselves can sit in their armchairs and make judgements using 20-20.
If I was instructed to break in to a property in course of my work (by a judge) and was met with gunfire and my mate going down hit beside me, this might make a big difference to my immediate actions. Don't forget..... I would have lived in trauma for (maybe) years.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I didn't say it was. In fact, that case is so convoluted that it is hard to pin the blame and find the sentence. It is only clear that no sentence would be a grave injustice.
Yep. But not in the US. Send it somewhere where rehabilitation is a top priority. That system is also rotten, and for a long time. But some people have woken up.The system needs to be sent to prison, then.
It hasn't been mentioned in the discussion, yet. And yes, police officers are under stress and that stress is mostly home grown. Officers are made to fear the public in their training and those who can't cope with the stress are hired anyway or if they develop symptoms later are kept working instead of send to a psychiatrist.
An officer who snaps under stress can't be made responsible - but his commanding officer can. When you send out an unstable individual, you are responsible for everything that individual does.
In short: a person is dead, somebody has to pay for that. If that doesn't happen people will sense that the law isn't working properly. And that will make them disregard the law themselves.