When Cops Are Indistinguishable From Criminals

[Kfox]

So you agree to "defund the police"?

No I dont agree with defund the police. To have mental health professionals with the police is to increase funding; not decreasing it because it costs more to have a cop AND a mental health professional than the cost of a cop alone.
Defund the Police was such a bad idea that even a 3rd grader could see was stupid

 

[Kfox]

When in doubt about a danger shoot-the-civilian is a very bad policy.
Refusing to obey an order, so shoot-the-civilian is a very bad policy.

It depends on the situation. If your life is in danger, and the person refuses to obey, but instead acts in a threatening way, you may have no choice but to shoot or get shot.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think we had a discussion on this a while back, where you stated your opposition to releasing bodycam footage since it might show someone naked.

I don't recall that.
But I favor respecting the rights of the victim.

But in this case, she was the one who was naked and had been pressing the cops to release the video.

I'm aware.
It's her right.
I approve.

While I respect people's privacy, I think in this case, the damage was already done. She was already video-recorded, and presumably, the cops, lawyers, and judges saw it in private and had a good laugh over it. But I think the general public would be more sympathetic to her plight if they could see it for themselves.

It's her right.
I approve.

Anything the cops can see, the public should be allowed to see. Anything the government knows, the people have a right to know. Otherwise, the government shouldn't be allowed to know or see these things either. The government should be ruled by the people, not the other way around.

It's the right of the victim to limit viewing
of things that they want private, & have
no bearing on the case.
So blurring her "shame" is appropriate.

 

[Stevicus]

In high crime neighborhoods, most of the law abiding citizens want and need the cops there on patrol.

Do you live in a high crime neighborhood yourself?

I find it absurd to suggest that because waiting for someone to call, works for the fire department, it should also work for the Police.

That's how it seems to work in most cases. With most crimes, they usually arrive after the fact. That is, if they even bother to show up at all, as most police reports can be done by phone or online. They'll file the report and say "we'll let you know if we hear anything."

 

[Revoltingest]

Defund the Police was such a bad idea that even a 3rd grader could see was stupid

The problem was that is was a dumb slogan
rather than a real policy proposal (most places).
We could spend the same money on fewer but
better cops.
Policing should be treated as a high skill profession,
with better pay, rigorous vetting , lengthy training,
rigorous continuing education, & greater accountability.

100 years from now, I hope this conversation will happen....
Marge: Did your son become a cop?
Blanch: No, he couldn't finish the 4 year pre-cop program.
Marge: Why?
Blanch: The classes were tough. His grades weren't there.
Marge: Oh, that's too bad. What does he do now?
Blanch: He settled for being a neurosurgeon.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, if you are refusing to obey and are reaching for a weapon; you are a threat, and cops have a right to defend themselves against a threat.

they found out it was only a knife only after they shot him.

The Blackstone (1765) quote...
"It is better that Ten Guilty Persons Escape than One Innocent Suffer."

The cop version....
"It is better that Ten Innocent Civilians Die than One Innocent Cop Suffer."

Consider that being a cop is 25th on the list of 25 most dangerous
professions in Ameristan. Their fear, itchy trigger finger, & disregard
for lives of others are unwarranted.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't recall that.
But I favor respecting the rights of the victim.

I'm aware.
It's her right.
I approve.

It's her right.
I approve.

It's the right of the victim to limit viewing
of things that they want private, & have
no bearing on the case.
So blurring her "shame" is appropriate.

I think we agree that justice and the rights of the victim should be top priority. That's why I believe that greater transparency and more light on such cases would better bring about that justice and the pursuit of human rights.

 

[Revoltingest]

It depends on the situation. If your life is in danger, and the person refuses to obey, but instead acts in a threatening way, you may have no choice but to shoot or get shot.

Of course.
I recognize that policing can be very difficult.
But our problem is that many cops don't know the law,
don't know our rights, are violent thugs, are incompetent,
& aren't held accountable. So they make bad choices.
The solution...
- Fewer cops
- Better pay
- Thorough vetting
- Long rigorous training
- Careful & honest monitoring
- Comprehensive continuing education
- Transparency & accountability
- Not wasting police on for-profit traffic stops
- Augmenting cops with ancillary personnel, eg, social workers

 

[Revoltingest]

I think we agree that justice and the rights of the victim should be top priority. That's why I believe that greater transparency and more light on such cases would better bring about that justice and the pursuit of human rights.

I'd like for SCOTUS to issue a clear ruling that recording
cops is a 1st Amendment right. While it is already recognized
as such, a ruling would inform many ignorant cops.

Body cams, dash cams, phone cams, & youtube are the
greatest civil liberty developments in the history of mankind.
(And in girlykind....& non-binarykind.)
They are the light that scatters the roaches.
And there is no better use of taxpayer money than
compensating government's victims for their loss.

 

[Kfox]

Do you live in a high crime neighborhood yourself?

Not anymore.

 

[Kfox]

The problem was that is was a dumb slogan
rather than a real policy proposal (most places).

It was more than just a dumb slogan, it was a dumb idea!

 

[Revoltingest]

Not anymore.

I briefly lived in inner city Baltimore.
It was bad before it went downhill.

 

[Revoltingest]

It was more than just a dumb slogan, it was a dumb idea!

Few people actually took it seriously.
Look around the country...where did it actually happen, eh.

 

[Kfox]

The Blackstone (1765) quote...
"It is better that Ten Guilty Persons Escape than One Innocent Suffer."

The cop version....
"It is better that Ten Innocent Civilians Die than One Innocent Cop Suffer."

Consider that being a cop is 25th on the list of 25 most dangerous
professions in Ameristan. Their fear, itchy trigger finger, & disregard
for lives of others are unwarranted.

It would be foolish to assume what you see cops doing on youtube, buzzfeed, or facebook represent what cops do everywhere.

 

[Revoltingest]

It would be foolish to assume what you see cops doing on youtube, buzzfeed, or facebook represent what cops do everywhere.

Of course it's not the same everywhere.
But consider that much wrongful cop action is never
recorded or documented. So youtube shows the tip
of the iceberg...especially before the age of ubiquitous
cameras. It's a problem worth addressing regardless
of how many civilians are abused, injured, & killed.

Consider the case of Daniel Shaver. The cop who
executed him after a game of Simon Says was found
not guilty. His department said he performed his duty
as he was trained. If this is how they're trained, then
training must radically change.
BTW, to murder people can be hard on the cop who
does it too. Shaver's killer retired early with full pay
on medical disability due to the stress of executing
an innocent man.

 

[Kfox]

Few people actually took it seriously.
Look around the country...where did it actually happen, eh.

It happened in my city (Seattle) the Mayor cut the police force by 20% (activists she was trying to appease wanted a 50% cut but the 20% was a compromise) and the murder rate jumped 61%. Now the Mayor is trying to increase funding back to where it was before. I mean seriously; who didn't see that one coming?

 

[Revoltingest]

It happened in my city (Seattle) the Mayor cut the police force by 20% (activists she was trying to appease wanted a 50% cut but the 20% was a compromise) and the murder rate jumped 61%. Now the Mayor is trying to increase funding back to where it was before. I mean seriously; who didn't see that one coming?

Politicians are often not the sharpest tools in the shed.
But most places weren't as knee jerky as Seattle. My
town (Ann Arbor) is even more liberal than yours, yet
they didn't defund at all.

I wonder....
If a Seattle surgeon killed a patient, would it fire 50%
of its surgeons as the solution?

 

[Kfox]

Of course it's not the same everywhere.

So why did you judge them as having itchy trigger fingers and a total disregard for the lives of others?

 

[Revoltingest]

So why did you judge them as having itchy trigger fingers and a total disregard for the lives of others?

Because that is such a common problem with cops.

Look at what happens to a man who is simply making
a phone call. The cop assaults him, & then lies on his
report that the victim actually attacked the cop.
Most good cops stand by when bad cops violate the
rights of civilians.
Without cameras the victim would've been imprisoned.
Cop culture has been to lie to put innocent people in
jail. This will change with ubiquitous cameras.

 

[Kfox]

Because that is such a common problem with cops.

How common is this problem that you judge them all this way?