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When did/do you get saved?
- Thread starter Heneni
- Start date
Heneni
Miss Independent
I sort of agree...
If our salvation depends on us choosing jesus, then he would have to get on the cross everytime someone chooses him.
Instead he chose us, and we were placed IN him to be saved that day on the cross. We were chosen before the foundation of the world, to be placed in him.
We work out our salvation here on earth, therefore making good use of the grace that god extended to us. We use this grace to grow spiritually.
If we were saved on the cross then god will draw us to him in this life time and we will start to live the christian life. We are then awakened to god. If we are unfaithful to him, he remains faitful to us, he can remain faithful, because he does not change his mind on who he saved.
If we choose jesus today and tomorrow we dont choose him then yesterday we were saved and today we would not be and then a week later we might be saved again. And so our salvation would depend on our choice. And since it doesnt depend on our choice of jesus, but rather his choice for us, then we are assured that whatever god started in us, he will bring to completion.
heneni
jacobweymouth
Active Member
You are saved when you ask for salvation in prayer.
"Call upon the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved"
"Call upon the name of the Lord, and thou shalt be saved"
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
How so?
So you're saying it was all decided before any of us was ever born, and that if we weren't one of those Jesus had previously picked, we're just out of luck?
What do you mean by "we work out our salvation"? What exactly is there for us to work out, and what happens if we don't do our part?
Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly. It sounds like you're saying that when it gets right down to it, we really can't make a decision as to whether to to believe in Jesus Christ at all, and that whether we do or don't is not our choice.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
And yet Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." From that, it sounds like we have to ask for salvation and then obey God's commandments.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Salvation is a rescue opperation. Its should not be confused with having a relationship with the rescuer.
Hopefully when somebody saves you, youd like to get to know him, and in fact i believe that is what happens for all that were saved on the cross.
Noah did not have a catalogue of hip gods to choose from. He did not say...i pick god QB4444, model 70. God picked him. God picked him to save him and his family. God chose us, we did not choose god.
After noah was rescued/saved he did not say...now i will pick god or choose god.
Salvation is a rescue. And whoever was saved by jesus on the cross put their faith in him to save them, just like noah had to put his faith in god to not make his massive boat sink to the bottom of the ocean and become fish food.
This earth can be likened to a ship sailing through the universe. But when the water came, the ship sank, and the earth was submerged under the water, and noah's was above the water. Hence jesus calls his disciples fishers of men, because the last time men perished they went under the water.
Heneni
Hopefully when somebody saves you, youd like to get to know him, and in fact i believe that is what happens for all that were saved on the cross.
Noah did not have a catalogue of hip gods to choose from. He did not say...i pick god QB4444, model 70. God picked him. God picked him to save him and his family. God chose us, we did not choose god.
After noah was rescued/saved he did not say...now i will pick god or choose god.
Salvation is a rescue. And whoever was saved by jesus on the cross put their faith in him to save them, just like noah had to put his faith in god to not make his massive boat sink to the bottom of the ocean and become fish food.
This earth can be likened to a ship sailing through the universe. But when the water came, the ship sank, and the earth was submerged under the water, and noah's was above the water. Hence jesus calls his disciples fishers of men, because the last time men perished they went under the water.
Heneni
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is a non-sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise. I chose Jesus because He rose from the dead and becasue God is faithful. Even if I had chosen Him because of the cross it would not have been because he repeated the action for me but because He had already gone to the cross once and for all time.
I will grant that I could not choose Jesus as my savior if He were not a savior but that is like saying I couldn't choose to eat chicken soup if it were spaghetti soup because it would have to be chicken soup for me to choose it as chicken soup.
This is pretty obvious. Jesus would not be a savior if He did not choose to save us and so we couldn't choose Him as one because He wouldn't be an option.
If we were saved on the cross we wouldn't have to go through the process nor would anyone be sinning now. The preseent reality reveals how errant this concept is. Not only that, I met someone on the internet who justified their sin by saying they were saved on the cross. A person can't be saved from sin and justify that sin they are still committing at the same time.
What are you saying then? That God compels us to be saved? Would that were the case, there would be no sin in the world. The fact tht there is sin in the world reveals that God is still allowing choice. If it were possible for a person to choose Jesus as Savior and then reject Him as Savior there would be no way for Him to return to salvation because he had already sampled both and made his decison. For example if a person steals (sin), they know what that is like including jail time etc but if a person is saved from stealing then they know what that is like so if the person decides that stealing is better, then they have made the choice knowing both what salvation and lack of it are like.
Now sometimes you have people who think they want to be saved becasue they don't like the wages of sin but they never really are coming to God becasue they are convinced that sin is bad but only the consequences are bad. Such people never were saved to start with because sin still had a place in their heart.
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Dezzie
Well-Known Member
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Heneni
Miss Independent
Non-sequitur. Yikes...is that like another word for BS?
That is a non-sequitur...or something like that. You did not chose jesus. If you did, tomorrow you might unchoose him by acting like a sinner. If you are unfaithful, he remains faithful. He can remain faithful, because he saved you. You did not save him.
Did you choose to be a sheep?
Did you choose to be chosen? If you chose jesus, then your salvation is due to your 'good' choice, and therefore you are saved by your own good works and can therefore boast in your good choice. God had to give you grace before you placed your faith in jesus to save you. Else you could boast about putting your faith in jesus to save you as well.
Whoever the father chose, he gave to jesus to be saved. And everybody that the Father has given jesus, will in no way be lost. Its not because we are righteous people that we can boast about our salvation. It is because while we were still sinners, bent the wrong way, he saved us.
All glory and praise belong to the father. If there is any 'good' in any of us, it is because of god. Its his good work in us that make us good. Jesus said there is none good but the father. That is because he only saw the good works of his father as being commendable. If we do the same we have to understand that any good work that god does in us..is completely because of his good will towards us. We are not good of our own. The only good things in us..is the work of god in us.
There is no such thing as the sinners prayer. For jesus to 'come into your heart'
The seed of god remains in his children and so that seed is not removable anymore than you can remove your DNA out of you.
A sheep does not change into a wolf.
The shephard has chosen his sheep and they listen to his voice. If you are chosen to be a child of god you WILL follow the shephard. You might try running of into ditches, but when the wolf shows its teeth, you will be bleeping for jesus. There will be no sheep who remain in ditches as long as jesus is the shephard. He will leave the 99 and go after the ONE.
He is faithful. Even if we are not. There are other choices we have. We can choose to come really close to god or not. We can desire fellowship or not. We can become sons and daughters who know and understand the heart of god, or we can be sons and daughters who are not too sure.
Draw close to god as a son...and he will draw close to you.
Salvation is a gift....relationship is a desire for fellowship. To conform into the image of jesus means what? What was the only significant, world changing, death defying thing jesus did? He loved his father. That is conforming into the image of jesus. To love your father in heaven, like Jesus loved him.
The signs and wonders that are suppose to follow us, wont follow, until our love for god has been perfected like jesus's was. And that in my opinion, is the only thing we desire. To be perfected in our love for god. Love for god will then perfect anything else...it will fix disobedience, it will sin, it will fix just about anything in us that needs fixing. Jesus was perfect because the love for his father was perfect.
Now...who gets to love god the father, like jesus did? Anybody that hungers and thirsts for Him.
Heneni
It was interesting to note not one person gave scripture to prove what God's plain is for salvation. So, I shall give some verses and let the reader make up their own mind.
Isaiah 64:6 *¶But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Galatians 2:16 *Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 5:1 *¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9 *Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Galatians 3:24 *Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 5:15 *But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 *And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:18 *Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
I hope the above may be a blessing to someone.
Tomlane
Isaiah 64:6 *¶But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Galatians 2:16 *Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 5:1 *¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9 *Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Galatians 3:24 *Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 5:15 *But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 *And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:18 *Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
I hope the above may be a blessing to someone.
Tomlane
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Hi Friends, Consider this. It seems that in reality the only way a mortal man can tell another mortal man that he is truly saved. is # 1 He would have to be able to read anothers true heart. or # 2 he would have had to of seen the book of life. Mortal man has done neither. Those who endure till the end will be saved
Muffled
Jesus in me
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Non-sequitur. Yikes...is that like another word for BS?
That is a non-sequitur...or something like that. You did not chose jesus. If you did, tomorrow you might unchoose him by acting like a sinner. If you are unfaithful, he remains faithful. He can remain faithful, because he saved you. You did not save him.
Did you choose to be a sheep?
Did you choose to be chosen? If you chose jesus, then your salvation is due to your 'good' choice, and therefore you are saved by your own good works and can therefore boast in your good choice. God had to give you grace before you placed your faith in jesus to save you. Else you could boast about putting your faith in jesus to save you as well.
Whoever the father chose, he gave to jesus to be saved. And everybody that the Father has given jesus, will in no way be lost. Its not because we are righteous people that we can boast about our salvation. It is because while we were still sinners, bent the wrong way, he saved us.
All glory and praise belong to the father. If there is any 'good' in any of us, it is because of god. Its his good work in us that make us good. Jesus said there is none good but the father. That is because he only saw the good works of his father as being commendable. If we do the same we have to understand that any good work that god does in us..is completely because of his good will towards us. We are not good of our own. The only good things in us..is the work of god in us.
There is no such thing as the sinners prayer. For jesus to 'come into your heart'
The seed of god remains in his children and so that seed is not removable anymore than you can remove your DNA out of you.
A sheep does not change into a wolf.
The shephard has chosen his sheep and they listen to his voice. If you are chosen to be a child of god you WILL follow the shephard. You might try running of into ditches, but when the wolf shows its teeth, you will be bleeping for jesus. There will be no sheep who remain in ditches as long as jesus is the shephard. He will leave the 99 and go after the ONE.
He is faithful. Even if we are not. There are other choices we have. We can choose to come really close to god or not. We can desire fellowship or not. We can become sons and daughters who know and understand the heart of god, or we can be sons and daughters who are not too sure.
Draw close to god as a son...and he will draw close to you.
Salvation is a gift....relationship is a desire for fellowship. To conform into the image of jesus means what? What was the only significant, world changing, death defying thing jesus did? He loved his father. That is conforming into the image of jesus. To love your father in heaven, like Jesus loved him.
The signs and wonders that are suppose to follow us, wont follow, until our love for god has been perfected like jesus's was. And that in my opinion, is the only thing we desire. To be perfected in our love for god. Love for god will then perfect anything else...it will fix disobedience, it will sin, it will fix just about anything in us that needs fixing. Jesus was perfect because the love for his father was perfect.
Now...who gets to love god the father, like jesus did? Anybody that hungers and thirsts for Him.
Heneni
Baaaah humbug. I chose to be lead by the shepherd instead of wandering off and getting lost.
Everyone is chosen.
I suppose you are referring to Eph 2:8,9. Let's look at it. Grace gave me the option to be saved. The Jews didn't (and still don't) have that option. However grace could not compel me to be saved, it could only provide me a choice. What shall I boast in? That my choice is good? The choice is good because God is good. Did I have to work? Not in the least. Now if I had to shop for clothes that would be work trying to make a choice but the choice between good and evil is a no brainer. I received the free gift of faith once and was almost saved but I decided not to act on that faith (I didn't choose to receive Jesus as Savior). Faith without works is dead. When I finally did choose to be saved it was through faith but only because I acted on faith. So I am now justified by faith and live by faith but that is because I chose to do so.
Ga 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga 3:11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith;
Ro 5:19 For as through the one mans disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.
There is a fine distinction to this verse. It isn't in present or past tense. It is in future tense. It is not all that are made righteous either but only many. What separates those made righteous from those not? Choice.
You will not be able to find any evidence for this. You might put your trust in this verse: Ro 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren, but all this is saying is that God knows the choices we will make not that He is making them for us.
No kidding. It is because of who we were created to be that we have a choice. If we were wolves we would have no choice.
Heneni
Miss Independent
You must be very chuffed with yourself then that you chose god and he did not choose you. Since you chose god, do you expect to get some sort of return on investment?
heneni
Heneni
Miss Independent
Well said.
I also believe that we were saved, are being saved, and will be saved.
heneni
Muffled
Jesus in me
Of course but everything in its time: Eph 1:14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of Gods own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The prodigal son goes home not because he is smarter than anyone else or because his father sent him a letter but because he is so humbled by his own foolishness and dissipation and poverty that he would rather be a servant of his father knowing the servants are treated well. It was the father's choice to welcome him as a son.
What then is there to be proud of? The choice was one made out of desperation and hope since at that time no one knew the father would act that way towards his son.
If I have restored a broken relationship with my Father in Heaven, it is because I was the one who broke it. My Father has always been faithful.
Acts 22:16 ...Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.
"Calling on his name" as shown here FROM THE BIBLE clearly is defined as being baptized for the remission of sins.
Therefore, prayer does not in the biblical sense mean "calling on his name".
The only person in the NT who was told to pray for the forgiveness of sin was Simon the sorcerer. This was after he had already been "baptized (Acts 8:13) INTO Christ" (Galatians 3:27)
smitten508
Member
The "sinners" prayer is only as salvific as the intent of the one praying it... Saved then is a decision to follow Christ and make a declaration that he is your Lord and Savior.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Great question. My answer would be John chapter 3. We cannot give ourselves the new birth; therefore, a sinner's prayer is an invention from the 2nd Great Awakening and Charles Finney. You have to study Mister Finney's theology to understand what I posted.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
I think the mighty Catholic Saint Augstine would disagree with your posting. IMO, I believe if Saint Augustine was born in the 16th century, he would be protesting alongside with Luther, Calvin, and the other Protestant Reformers.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I prayed for Jesus to be my Lord and Savior seven years before I was baptized. Not only was my prayer answered verbally but at the time of my prayer I also received the fruit of the Spirit.
However the Bible reports an instance of salvation that came by way of preaching:
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
Then we have this verse that does not include baptism:
Ro 10:10 for withtheheart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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