Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
When I discovered the Unitarian Universalist Church. I'm still very thankful for that discovery, it saved my spiritual life.
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When did/do you get saved?
- Thread starter Heneni
- Start date
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Does universalism mean everyone will eventually be saved?
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but I come from the Unitarian side of the church. I disagree with Universalism in that if there is a Heaven there must be a Hell to balance it out. But then again, I don't believe in the traditional meaning of Heaven and Hell either so it kind of evens out in the wash.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Yeah, but I come from the Unitarian side of the church. I disagree with Universalism in that if there is a Heaven there must be a Hell to balance it out. But then again, I don't believe in the traditional meaning of Heaven and Hell either so it kind of evens out in the wash.
So as a universalist, everyone will eventually be able to post on this thread since all will be saved. What are people being saved from, and on what basis or grounds are they saved?
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned, I'm not a Universalist and unfortunately I don't really know. I don't think they have a single answer anyway as there is more than one flavor of Universalist. You can try the wiki Universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or maybe another UU will join this discussion. Also, if you're really interested, check out the UU DIR for more info. Unitarian Universalism - Religious Education Forum
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
Hey, I must be getting old too quickly. Didn't your religion title say Unitarian Universalist a few minutes ago? Does your flavor of religion change with the weather?
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Nope, it has always said Unitarian. In my facebook profile it says Unitarian Universalist because it's easier that way but here I like to be a little more specific.
As for Acts 10 - It is clear that God is working in a specific (almost unique) way for a specific purpose. He used the miraculous outpouring of the HS to show them that the Gentiles were heirs also of the grace of God.
Rom 10:10 - I agree that belief and confession are necessary actions. However, I believe that God has given us the Bible as a whole, and no single verse cancels out any other. Please explain how Rom 10:10 cancels out any verse linking baptism or repentance to salvation.
Belief - not sufficient by itself - see John 12:42
Confession - not sufficient by itself - see Matt 7:21
When we add these verses to other verses like Acts 22:16 or Acts 2:38 we see God's COMPLETE plan.
Furthermore, what would be the point of baptizing Cornelius if he was already saved? Wouldn't that seem ritualistic? The answer I commonly hear is that it is to show others that you are following Christ (outward expression of inner faith). If this is the case, why in Acts 16 was the Phillipian jailer baptized at midnight, when he could've waited until the next day (or seven years) so that more people could see him?
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
In Acts 16, do you believe the jailer was saved when he believed or when he was baptized? What was Paul's answer to the questions of "what must I do to be saved"?
I thought I had made myself clear, he was saved when he was baptized for the forgiveness of his sins. (unless you think you can be saved without your sins being forgiven?)
Again, this single verse does not cancel out other verses in the NT.
Muffled apparently believes you have to believe and confess.
I assume you believe you only have to believe?
What did Paul tell him to believe in? - the Lord Jesus
What is the correct response to hearing the word of the Lord? - The Philippian jailer was baptized at once.
In Acts 8, Philip preached to the Ethiopian. It reads "he told him the good news about Jesus. The eunuch's response was immediate baptism. Apparently, preaching Jesus (i.e. the gospel) leads one to be baptized immediately. This was held on the side of the road. Why didn't he wait until he got where he was going so he could be baptized in front of a large crowd?
You've still yet to answer the question as to why he was baptized at midnight?
Research of the term synecdoche might be in order.
Again, this single verse does not cancel out other verses in the NT.
Muffled apparently believes you have to believe and confess.
I assume you believe you only have to believe?
What did Paul tell him to believe in? - the Lord Jesus
What is the correct response to hearing the word of the Lord? - The Philippian jailer was baptized at once.
In Acts 8, Philip preached to the Ethiopian. It reads "he told him the good news about Jesus. The eunuch's response was immediate baptism. Apparently, preaching Jesus (i.e. the gospel) leads one to be baptized immediately. This was held on the side of the road. Why didn't he wait until he got where he was going so he could be baptized in front of a large crowd?
You've still yet to answer the question as to why he was baptized at midnight?
Research of the term synecdoche might be in order.
Christian Pilgrim
Active Member
The Conversion of Lydia
11 So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the [4] district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15 And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us
Acts 16
The Philippian Jailer Converted
25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them, 26 and suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone's bonds were unfastened. 27 When the jailer woke and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here.” 29 And the jailer [6] called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family. 34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.
Divisions in the Church 1 cor 1
10 I appeal to you, brothers, [1] by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
The Message of Salvation to All
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [3] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. - rom 10
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
I Will Put My Spirit Within You - Ezek 35
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Lord God, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.[1] 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you. 30 I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord God; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.
33 “Thus says the Lord God: On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt. 34 And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by. 35 And they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the Lord; I have rebuilt the ruined places and replanted that which was desolate. I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it.
37 “Thus says the Lord God: This also I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for them: to increase their people like a flock. 38 Like the flock for sacrifices, [2] like the flock at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts, so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”
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Solveigh79
New Member
IT is a FAITH WAlk, like so many have said here, first you have to believe that GOD raised Jesus, the Bible says that there was about 500 witnesses that saw Jesus after he was crucified. Saved from what some of you say, saved from a burning hell, saved from condemnation buy a JUST and HOLY GOD! We have to right to come to him but because of what Jesus did, which was to suffer and die a horrible death for all of us we have hope through CHRIST. May your minds be renewed by the word of God, may your hearts be strenthened and uplifted. I have to pray every single day, Lord please have mercy on me, I know I am not where I need to be with you! Paul said, not that I have apprehened - he knew he wasn't there yet. He knew it was a process, ongoing until the very end. Our hope should be to see Him as he really is at the very end. Be Blessed!
Muffled
Jesus in me
It doesn't cancel out the linking but it does reveal that the linking is not a necessary requirement if Baptism is left out.
This isn't really the case. Salvation is by grace through faith. I would define faith as putting your trust in belief. Grace by itself can do nothing until belief is acted on by faith. Confession is a work that ought to be a fruit of salvation but there was nothing in John 12:42 that said those Jews weren't saved becasue they didn't confess Jesus. As for Mat 7:21 He is simply saying that a false confession will not save you. He is also saying that a belief that doesn't result in faith is not a true belief. (The old wheelbarrow on a tightrope across Niagara Falls story).
Because Jesus commanded His apostles to do so, duh.
A testimony does not have to be public as long as it is heard by someone. You cab ask the question about why they didn't wait but the text will not provide you with an answer and any answer that you suggest is mere specultaion. If I were to speculate, I believe that the Phillipian jailer was really excited about his salvation since it was such an earthshaking event.
What's the old wheelbarrow on a tightrope across Niagara Falls story?
Muffled
Jesus in me
Of course. You can't really be saved from sin until you believe that you need to be saved from it. For me that happened in 1967 and I was saved in 1971. Deciding to do what is right doesn't hurt but the Jews were already doing that much. I had to admit that I wasn't able to do what is right without a savior.
The baptism of John was unto repentance. My dausghter ws baptized by the Mormon church on that basis even though she didn't receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. The baptism that Jesus requires is a baptism of testimony of faith in Jesus as Savior.
Muffled
Jesus in me
A man claims that he can wheel people across Niagara Falls on a tightrope. He asks the crowd gathered there if they believed he could do it and they all shout, yes! So then he asks who is the first to volunteer to get in the wheelbarrow? Not one person is willing to get in that wheelbarrow and be wheeled across Niagara Falls on a tightrope.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Faith in God is putting trust in God.
I didn't see anything in John 12 about authorities believing but there were many, who witnessed the resurrection of Lazarus, believing in Jesus. However there is no guarantee that they believed He was Savior. They might have simply believed that He was a prophet as the Muslims do. For a person to really believe in Jesus, he would have to believe in the primary message of Jesus which is the gospel of life.
It is the first opportunity to proclaim that Jesus is Lord by being obedient to a commandment. A person is not saved from sin if he is committing sin.
Are you trying to insinuate that works save a person? A person who is obedient one day can return the next day and sin. Having done a good work the previous day did not save him from sin on the next day. Believing in God's saving grace however is going to work every day because it does not depend on his ability to keep from but on the ability of Jesus to save from sin. Am I obediant? It is not because I try harder but because Jesus works obedience in me. However I can still step away from the saving grace of Jesus and try to run my own life but I will surely sin if I do.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Heneni,
There are several steps toward salvation. The Holy Scriptures tell us what is required.
Consider John 17:3, which says it means our everlasting life to take in knowledge of the only true God and of the one He sent forth, Jesus Christ.
We must turn around from our old course of life, and put on the new personality from God, Heb 12:2, Eph 4:22-24. After you learn about God, His son and His purposes, you must dedicate yourself to God in prayer, and then Get baptized, Matt 28:19,20, 1Pet 3:20,21. You must have faith in the Ransom sacrifice of Jesus, Gal 2:16, Acts 13:38,39, Heb 10:28,29.
Then you must live a life that is acceptable to God, Heb 13:18, 2Cor 13:5. It is only the ones who are faithful to death that have salvation, Matt 10:22, 24:13.
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