When does theory become fact?

[Thief]

I never used time. Point to where I did. Please indicate that you equate spacetime with the claim that time exists by quoting my use of the term to indicate how thoroughly you don't understand what you are talking about.

You did say ...mass curves space time.....
It does nothing of the sort.

Space is real enough.
Mass is real enough.
So too gravity.

Time however is a measurement.
A cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.
It is a quotient on a chalkboard.
It cannot exist anywhere but there....and in your head.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

You did say ...mass curves space time....

Thank you for doing as I asked and indicating your "understanding" of physics. Space and time existed in classical physics, so any concept of spacetime that included time and space as real phenomena would be entirely consistent with spacetime. Only it isn't, because spacetime doesn't include time, but a space in which a particular dimension of that space is related to our conception of time, but no real phenomenon "time".

Space is real enough.

And you explain length contraction and nonlocality how?

So too gravity.

And we return to your baseless assertion, borrowed from the physics you distort in order to combine into some juimble of nonsense you defend by repetition and reliance on the physics research you mischaracterize & and misunderstand.

 

[Thief]

Thank you for doing as I asked and indicating your "understanding" of physics. Space and time existed in classical physics, so any concept of spacetime that included time and space as real phenomena would be entirely consistent with spacetime. Only it isn't, because spacetime doesn't include time, but a space in which a particular dimension of that space is related to our conception of time, but no real phenomenon "time".


And you explain length contraction and nonlocality how?


And we return to your baseless assertion, borrowed from the physics you distort in order to combine into some juimble of nonsense you defend by repetition and reliance on the physics research you mischaracterize & and misunderstand.

So you think time is a force?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

So you think time is a force?

No. Do you know what forces are (and can you demonstrate this)?

 

[Thief]

No. Do you know what forces are (and can you demonstrate this)?

I get the same discussion you get by means of science documentaries.
or are you more than the know-it-alls I've been watching?

I see no point in placating your argument.

At some 'point' ....Someone had to be First.
All of substance had a beginning.
Any discussion circumventing the 'point' will be 'pointless'

I suppose you cannot demonstrate an ability to choose.
Spirit first?...or substance?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you leaning to human that can only know science?
or human that can rationalize a belief in God?
then deciding which one is human and the other isn't?

Thief, as a rule, it is safe to assume that I don't use belief in God at all.

I don't really understand what you are asking, but what I did mean is that human life is much too finite for practical difference between scientific knowledge and Truth to be very big or significant.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I get the same discussion you get by means of science documentaries.

I don't watch science documentaries.

or are you more than the know-it-alls I've been watching?

No. You've probably watched those know-it-alls who have been my undergrad and graduate advisers, not me.

I see no point in placating your argument.

Do you see a point in your presenting something remotely resembling an argument?

At some 'point' ....Someone had to be First.
All of substance had a beginning.
Any discussion circumventing the 'point' will be 'pointless'

I notice the square-quote around "point". Given the enormity of this concept within mathematical biology, quantum physics, particle physics, classical mechanics, etc., how are you defining it?

 

[Thief]

I don't watch science documentaries.

No. You've probably watched those know-it-alls who have been my undergrad and graduate advisers, not me.


Do you see a point in your presenting something remotely resembling an argument?



I notice the square-quote around "point". Given the enormity of this concept within mathematical biology, quantum physics, particle physics, classical mechanics, etc., how are you defining it?

Well...I was attempting to demonstrate certainty....without the need for your discussion.
You actually think your sense of reality is greater than mine?

THAT would be the demonstration you are attempting.
But you are not willing to take that leap.
Tell me again.....is gravity real?
Do you really think it is required of me to make the demonstration?

 

[Thief]

Thief, as a rule, it is safe to assume that I don't use belief in God at all.

I don't really understand what you are asking, but what I did mean is that human life is much too finite for practical difference between scientific knowledge and Truth to be very big or significant.

ok...so maybe belief is actually a form of humility and doesn't require a large sense of self.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Well...I was attempting to demonstrate certainty....without the need for your discussion.
You actually think your sense of reality is greater than mine?

I don't know about that. I do know that you base a lot of your understanding of reality on physics notions you don't understand.

Tell me again.....is gravity real?

I asked you to define what you mean by gravity. If by gravity you mean attraction between objects with mass, then this is obviously and trivially wrong. If it is something else, you haven't indicated you are aware of what this could be, let alone what it is.-

 

[Thief]

I don't know about that. I do know that you base a lot of your understanding of reality on physics notions you don't understand.


I asked you to define what you mean by gravity. If by gravity you mean attraction between objects with mass, then this is obviously and trivially wrong. If it is something else, you haven't indicated you are aware of what this could be, let alone what it is.-

and you are now evading the obvious.
Whether I can demonstrate what gravity is...to your satisfaction .....is not the point.

I can say with out doubt....gravity is real.

If you wish to agree...now is the opportunity.

Or you can make the demonstration to the contrary......take that leap.

 

[LuisDantas]

ok...so maybe belief is actually a form of humility and doesn't require a large sense of self.

Belief in God, you mean?

It does vary. For some people it is incredibly arrogant, to the point of obscenity. For others it is just part of how they are and ego does not become a problem. I assume there are humble believers as well, but they don't seem to be very easy to spot.

 

[Thief]

Belief in God, you mean?

It does vary. For some people it is incredibly arrogant, to the point of obscenity. For others it is just part of how they are and ego does not become a problem. I assume there are humble believers as well, but they don't seem to be very easy to spot.

So far....in the many discussions I've had here.
It is the non-believer who would raise the flag of arrogance and demand proof....
all the while knowing.....faith requires no proving.

I have no difficulty reasoning toward God.
It does however, require setting myself aside and allowing the consideration.....Someone Greater....than me.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

and you are now evading the obvious.

The obvious was shown to be incorrect a century ago.

Whether I can demonstrate what gravity is...to your satisfaction .....is not the point.

Maybe not. I would say that to the extent your posts in this thread are of any worth whatsoever or even could theoretically be of worth is related to you knowledge of the concepts you refer to. As you have demonstrated a thorough lack of said knowledge as well as a fairly fundamental misunderstanding, this allows us to gauge the extent (which is between minimal and less than nothing) your posts offer on these particular subjects.

I can say with out doubt....gravity is real.

I believe you. I do believe you have no doubt. However, I have read your justification for such a belief and thus am able to gauge that your belief that is "with out doubt" is simply dogma based on polluted understanding of what apparently amounts mostly to documentaries.

 

[Thief]

The obvious was shown to be incorrect a century ago.

Maybe not. I would say that to the extent your posts in this thread are of any worth whatsoever or even could theoretically be of worth is related to you knowledge of the concepts you refer to. As you have demonstrated a thorough lack of said knowledge as well as a fairly fundamental misunderstanding, this allows us to gauge the extent (which is between minimal and less than nothing) your posts offer on these particular subjects.


I believe you. I do believe you have no doubt. However, I have read your justification for such a belief and thus am able to gauge that your belief that is "with out doubt" is simply dogma based on polluted understanding of what apparently amounts mostly to documentaries.

And now you are at the edge of proving......go for it.
Show us you great wisdom and demonstrate what you say.
Prove to the world that Thief does not know the nature of gravity.......Go take that leap.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

And now you are at the edge of proving......go for it.
Show us you great wisdom and demonstrate what you say.
Prove to the world that Thief does not know the nature of gravity.......Go take that leap.

Ok. Is the value of gravitation an odd number, even number, or prime number?

 

[LuisDantas]

So far....in the many discussions I've had here.
It is the non-believer who would raise the flag of arrogance and demand proof....
all the while knowing.....faith requires no proving.

You seem to have paid poor attention then.

 

[Thief]

You seem to have paid poor attention then.

Shallow assessment on your part.

 

[Thief]

Ok. Is the value of gravitation an odd number, even number, or prime number?

Let's be practical.....just nod your head.....gravity is real.
If you insist otherwise.....take the leap.
If you survive....let everyone know the result.
If you don't survive we can read the printed report later on.

 

[LuisDantas]

Shallow assessment on your part.

What else could I think?