When does theory become fact?

[Thief]

Can you explain - in your own words - what gravity is, thief?

How about....something not yet proven.

Or maybe you are willing to prove gravity to my satisfaction.
The requirement is.....take a leap....make it a serious one.
If you survive post your results.

Or perhaps you are willing to concede......gravity is real....and I don't have to prove it.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Or maybe you are willing to prove gravity to my satisfaction.

So, according to you, gravity is a fact which means by definition it is true, but you don't consider it proven. Correct?

The requirement is.....take a leap....make it a serious one.

Falling objects don't prove gravity. Out of curiosity, according to your conception of gravity, would the tides instantly change if the moon were to explode or vanish? Why or why not? Is gravity a field, and if so, can you define a field? Is there anything you can offer other than a half dozen or more posts about taking a leap to indicate you have the faintest idea what you are talking about?

 

[Thief]

So, according to you, gravity is a fact which means by definition it is true, but you don't consider it proven. Correct?


Falling objects don't prove gravity. Out of curiosity, according to your conception of gravity, would the tides instantly change if the moon were to explode or vanish? Why or why not? Is gravity a field, and if so, can you define a field? Is there anything you can offer other than a half dozen or more posts about taking a leap to indicate you have the faintest idea what you are talking about?

I'm waiting for any participant here to be foolish enough to say....gravity is not real.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I'm waiting for any participant here to be foolish enough to say....gravity is not real.

Gravity is not real.

 

[Thief]

Gravity is not real.

Take a leap.

 

[Yerda]

Is your statement a fact or just a theory?

Working hypothesis.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Take a leap.

To indicate that objects fall? How will this show that it isn't the effect matter has on the curvature of spacetime?

 

[Thief]

To indicate that objects fall? How will this show that it isn't the effect matter has on the curvature of spacetime?

So now you see no difference between matter and the force that draws them together?
(you really need to drop that spacetime noun...it isn't working for you)

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

So now you see no difference between matter and the force that draws them together?
(you really need to drop that spacetime noun...it isn't working for you)

I'll agree it isn't working, but only because you clearly don't understand it, otherwise you wouldn't have asked whether or not I saw a "difference between matter and the force that draws them together".

 

[Trantorfuzz]

So if I understand correctly Facts don't have to always be true. They could be facts today but slightly different tomorrow. Well if that's how you define facts, I can't argue.

Differentiate *statements of fact* from facts themselves.

A fact, i.e. an actual state of affairs, is true at some point in time by definition.

A *statement of fact* merely purports to be true. Some statements of fact are most likely true. (e.g. The speed of light in a vacuum is a constant.) Some statements of fact are false. (e.g. Dropping an anvil on one's foot is a reliable tooth-whitening technique.)

Also, not all facts, i.e. actual states of affairs, obtain eternally. Many obtain only for a limited time. For example, the fact that the Earth orbits the sun was not always the case, since there was a time before either body existed.

I can't put it any more plainly than that.

 

[gnostic]

How about....something not yet proven.

Or maybe you are willing to prove gravity to my satisfaction.
The requirement is.....take a leap....make it a serious one.
If you survive post your results.

You are evading a simple request.

You keep writing that gravity is "real" or "fact", but refuse to give definition of what is gravity.

Saying it is real, and not actually describing what it is, suggest to me you don't really understand gravity. After all, scientific theory is about explaining what it is and how it work.

 

[LuisDantas]

How the mighty have fallen. They can't even accept that gravity exists anymore.

 

[gnostic]

What I really don't understand is why some people who understand what a scientific "theory" is, and yet make claim what it is or isn't?

Those who say "it is just a theory" ...show levels of their ignorance...or worse, their dishonesty.

Most branches and fields of science required empirical evidences to support or verified their theories to be true.

There are some fields of science that cannot be tested or have evidences, but do have mathematical or logical proofs, like superstring theory or M-theory.

Empirical science less on proofs and more on evidences.

And that's another thing that the same people who don't understand about theory, also don't understand about "evidence" and "proof", or why they don't mean the same things.

They don't mean the same things in the world of science and mathematics, and yet ignorant creationists persisted on using word like "proof" instead of "evidence", when "evidence" and "proof" are not synonymous to one another.

Fact are supported by evidences, not by proofs.

 

[Thief]

It's a theory when there is no proving.
After the proving....it's a fact.

The exception.....and point of this thread.....
Some items ARE fact and no one needs to prove it.
Gravity is real....that's a fact.
We still call it theory.

Likely because the form of gravity appears in the presence of substance.....just because.
The Source and nature of it, is not understood.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

It's a theory when there is no proving.

No, it's a theorem. We don't prove theories.

 

[Thief]

No, it's a theorem. We don't prove theories.

Dude....how many threads does it take.
I even started one some months ago.

Theories are explanations....not trump cards.
Nothing but a good idea.

Good ideas need proving to become fact.

But some things we don't wait for....no need to.
(numbers work well enough to describe it's behavior...but nothing more)
Gravity is real.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Theories are explanations....not trump cards.

That isn't what theories are, but it doesn't matter you missed the point. Nothing can be proven except "statements" within a formal system (symbolic logic, analysis, abstract algebras, etc.). Proof is for mathematics.

Good ideas need proving to become fact.

You stated gravity was a fact. What's the proof? If what you said directly above is true, then it must be true that there is a proof of gravity and that you know it, or else you wouldn't know that it is a fact. So, please produce this proof.

 

[Thief]

That isn't what theories are, but it doesn't matter you missed the point. Nothing can be proven except "statements" within a formal system (symbolic logic, analysis, abstract algebras, etc.). Proof is for mathematics.



You stated gravity was a fact. What's the proof? If what you said directly above is true, then it must be true that there is a proof of gravity and that you know it, or else you wouldn't know that it is a fact. So, please produce this proof.

Exactly the point of this thread.
Where does theory become fact?

Prove it to yourself.....walk away from your chalkboard.....
continue until you find a really high ledge....a sure kill....
jump...

If you somehow survive, I have no doubt you will be convinced....gravity is real.....it's a fact.

 

[gnostic]

It's a theory when there is no proving.
After the proving....it's a fact.

You are seriously lacking in education about science. And you are unwilling to learn what science is about, which make you sound totally ignorant.

Proof has nothing to do with scientific facts. Proofs are mathematical statements, like equations or attempting to find mathematical solutions. And this is what you are ignorantly ignoring. You are not intelligent at all, if you can't understand something so simple.

Facts have to do with empirical evidences and with repeatable testings, to verify if the explanation and prediction (theory or hypothesis) are correcct. And most science rely on empiricism and the scientific method as mean of finding and understanding facts.

It is only in theoretical science, like superstring theory, that use proof. The theories on evolution, gravity, electromagnetism, optics relied on evidences, hence facts.

 

[gnostic]

Exactly the point of this thread.
Where does theory become fact?

Prove it to yourself.....walk away from your chalkboard.....
continue until you find a really high ledge....a sure kill....
jump...

If you somehow survive, I have no doubt you will be convinced....gravity is real.....it's a fact.

More ignorant garbage.

You really should stick to debating strictly on theology. You are sounding more of fool the more you posts in science-related subjects. It sound like you have never study science at all. I thought you were just ignorant about evolution, but apparently you don't know what you are talking about with gravity, and whole lot of science subjects.

I am wasting my time in replying to you and your ignorant and embarrassing rants.