when is jesus speaking directly to his followers?

[waitasec]

i am very curious as to how christians decipher when jesus is talking to them personally through the bible or when he is only speaking to the crowd or a particular person. for example;

in the famous John 3:16 jesus is having a conversation with nicodemus
but somehow that conversation, in the minds of EVERY christian, can be applied to everyone, then and now

but when jesus is talking to a certain ruler, in luke 18, who asks; "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" even though he has followed all the commandments
jesus replies with "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

this commandment is mentioned TWICE in the gospels and this commandment in john is only mentioned ONCE.

even when he is speaking to a crowd or to his disciples he says,
not all of you will taste death before the son of man will come with power in his kingdom...

how do you decode the scripture and figure out when his words are meant FOR YOU TODAY?

 

[ChristineES]

John 3:16 was something the author said. If the passage says Jesus was talking to a crowd, then He was talking to a crowd. If the passage says He was talking to an individual or talking to His Apostles, then He was talking to the individual or Apostles. You have to read the Bible as a whole at least once and not just skip from verse to verse- that is my advice.

 

[waitasec]

John 3:16 was something the author said. If the passage says Jesus was talking to a crowd, then He was talking to a crowd. If the passage says He was talking to an individual or talking to His Apostles, then He was talking to the individual or Apostles. You have to read the Bible as a whole at least once and not just skip from verse to verse- that is my advice.

so jesus didn't say that to nicodemus?
was the author of the gospel of john making things up?

 

[waitasec]

most biblical scholars have come to an agreement that the author of the gospel according john was written about 90-95 AD. so it is not surprising that a speech to a crowd or to his followers would have jesus say it is within their life time they will see the son of man come in the power of the kingdom of heaven in this particular gospel... because they all died when this gospel was authored

another point i'll add is this gospel was written in the greek...and what is interesting about this passage with the is particular conversation jesus has with nicodemus is the misunderstanding of the word "again"...
if jesus and nicodemus were speaking in aramaic (another common understanding with bible scholars), such a misinterpretation would not have occurred because "again" means from the beginning in aramaic; in the greek it means from the beginning and from above...

so again, how do you decipher when god is speaking to you through the bible...
don't christians say god speaks to them through the bible?

 

[rkm7878]

Umm this one is not hard Jesus John 3:16 says for God so loved the world so he was talking to one man but the principle is stated. God sent his son for the whole world. But the other he is talking to one man and his point is that the man thinks his good works will get him to heaven but only full trust in Jesus Christ can do that.

 

[waitasec]

Umm this one is not hard Jesus John 3:16 says for God so loved the world so he was talking to one man but the principle is stated. God sent his son for the whole world. But the other he is talking to one man and his point is that the man thinks his good works will get him to heaven but only full trust in Jesus Christ can do that.

well was he really? isn't it something the author of the gospel of john conjured up...?
was it the world for that time or the world for this time...not so easy

 

[ChristineES]

so jesus didn't say that to nicodemus?
was the author of the gospel of john making things up?

I can't understand what you're getting that from. I didn't say or insinuate that at all.

 

[Mister Emu]

Reason and tradition... probably some other stuff I'm missing because it is almost 5 A.M.

 

[Smoke]

how do you decode the scripture and figure out when his words are meant FOR YOU TODAY?

Obviously, when Jesus said to sell all you have and give it to the poor, or resist not evil, or give alms secretly and pray secretly, or take no thought for your life, or give to him who asks you, he wasn't talking to me. That would be crazy talk. As my aunt explained about beating that woman's head on the sidewalk, Jesus expects you to take your part.

Believing, that's the kind of thing he meant for you and me.

 

[Thief]

Nothing like overlooking the obvious.

Decide first if Jesus is a prophet of God...and God is what you seek.
Then decide if the sayings of that prophet are true.
Then decide if the truth applies to you.

 

[waitasec]

I can't understand what you're getting that from. I didn't say or insinuate that at all.

John 3:16 was something the author said. If the passage says Jesus was talking to a crowd, then He was talking to a crowd. If the passage says He was talking to an individual or talking to His Apostles, then He was talking to the individual or Apostles. You have to read the Bible as a whole at least once and not just skip from verse to verse- that is my advice.

"something the author said..." what do you mean with that?
the gospel of john was written 90-95 AD (a common understanding with bible scholars). and you won't find a passage were jesus is saying he'll come back within their life times (like you'll find in the other gospels that were written 25 or 30 AD) because of the time period the gospel of john was written...they had died by then. even the conversation with nicodemus is suspect...read post #4

maybe i'm not making my self clear.
when jesus is talking to a person, a crowd or to his disciples, what i don't understand is how do christians decipher what he said applies to NOW

when i gave the example of nicodemus, jesus' commandment was to BELIEVE in him
and that, as far as i can tell, is what christians do.
However, jesus also told the rich ruler to SELL EVERYTHING in order for him to inherit the kingdom of heaven. why then, are their money making gurus in the church when jesus said him self sell everything and follow me?
if i had a personal relationship with the creator of everything i would not be concerned with materialism or money, the difference between christians and the rich ruler is that christians KNOW who jesus is, the rich ruler didn't have the "proof", such as the bible. so why aren't christians selling everything? it's not like your tempting god to prove to you he is faithful, he told the rich ruler and a tax collector to... JUST DO IT.
it's mentioned 2 times in the bible, the gospel of john seems to be questionable...because he changes the premise from ACTION to BELIEF.

seems like a much easier way, no wonder this religion is still around

 

[waitasec]

Nothing like overlooking the obvious.

Decide first if Jesus is a prophet of God...and God is what you seek.
Then decide if the sayings of that prophet are true.
Then decide if the truth applies to you.

"Decide first if Jesus is a prophet of God...and God is what you seek."

how do you decipher such a notion to be real?

"Then decide if the sayings of that prophet are true."

how?

Then decide if the truth applies to you.[/QUOTE]

how?

 

[rkm7878]

well was he really? isn't it something the author of the gospel of john conjured up...?
was it the world for that time or the world for this time...not so easy

No I am sorry it is easy. The fact is if you think that any of the author's of the gosple conjured up what they said then for you there is no point in asking the question because why would make believe matter anyway? The Bible is God's word Jesus was talking to a real man and He did use the term World meaning everyone.

 

[waitasec]

No I am sorry it is easy. The fact is if you think that any of the author's of the gosple conjured up what they said then for you there is no point in asking the question because why would make believe matter anyway? The Bible is God's word Jesus was talking to a real man and He did use the term World meaning everyone.

yes, but how do you decipher what jesus says is directed to you personally?
i see it all the time on these threads, "god talks to me through the bible"

as i said before, the gospel of john was written 90-95 AD...and you won't find ANY passages pertaining to his coming back within their life time...wonder why?

 

[rkm7878]

yes, but how do you decipher what jesus says is directed to you personally?
i see it all the time on these threads, "god talks to me through the bible"

as i said before, the gospel of john was written 90-95 AD...and you won't find ANY passages pertaining to his coming back within their life time...wonder why?

When someone says that God is talking to me through the Bible it is because they have a personal relationship with Him and His Holy Spirit lives inside of them. Let me give you an example the current president of World Vision, who helps the poor in Africa and other places, was trying to decide if he should leave his high paying job, his new car, his dream home, and move his family to go and be the president of world vision. He read the story of the rich young man and God "spoke" to him through that story. God said to him "Are you willing to leave wordly things behind and serve me?" You see he did not have to sell everything he owned but he did have to give up most of what he loved because God spoke to him through His word. You cannot nail this down God speaks to His people in His way and in His time but more often than not it is through His word.

 

[waitasec]

When someone says that God is talking to me through the Bible it is because they have a personal relationship with Him and His Holy Spirit lives inside of them. Let me give you an example the current president of World Vision, who helps the poor in Africa and other places, was trying to decide if he should leave his high paying job, his new car, his dream home, and move his family to go and be the president of world vision. He read the story of the rich young man and God "spoke" to him through that story. God said to him "Are you willing to leave wordly things behind and serve me?" You see he did not have to sell everything he owned but he did have to give up most of what he loved because God spoke to him through His word. You cannot nail this down God speaks to His people in His way and in His time but more often than not it is through His word.

ok, i understand that. why then are there ministries out there that stand on the premise god wants them to be wealthy...? faith is easy. action is hard.

tell me,
when purchasing a home, a car, finding the right college, accepting a position at work or investing in a new business...do people go on a gut feeling exclusively? do they have something that is "more than a feeling"
or are there pro's and cons and FACTS to be considered? is their conscience clear about the choice they made knowing they won't be going in over their heads?

this is why i think MOST christians are cherry pickers, because they only follow the easy way...BELIEF and the action is only displayed through judgement and control because god "spoke" to them through the bible.
the real BELIEVERS do what that man did for world vision... thay make a difference and not pussyfoot around life cherry picking what fits and what doesn't

in other words, i don't take christians seriously

 

[Blackdog22]

When someone says that God is talking to me through the Bible it is because they have a personal relationship with Him and His Holy Spirit lives inside of them. Let me give you an example the current president of World Vision, who helps the poor in Africa and other places, was trying to decide if he should leave his high paying job, his new car, his dream home, and move his family to go and be the president of world vision. He read the story of the rich young man and God "spoke" to him through that story. God said to him "Are you willing to leave wordly things behind and serve me?" You see he did not have to sell everything he owned but he did have to give up most of what he loved because God spoke to him through His word. You cannot nail this down God speaks to His people in His way and in His time but more often than not it is through His word.

Or maybe he was one of the only people who read it and felt convicted. Maybe his faith in the Bible is stronger than yours.

Also consider that the average person today in the US is rich in comparison to the world back then and the rest of the world even today. So how again does this not apply to you? Remember Gods perspective can see the whole of the world.

 

[rkm7878]

ok, i understand that. why then are there ministries out there that stand on the premise god wants them to be wealthy...? faith is easy. action is hard.

tell me,
when purchasing a home, a car, finding the right college, accepting a position at work or investing in a new business...do people go on a gut feeling exclusively? do they have something that is "more than a feeling"
or are there pro's and cons and FACTS to be considered? is their conscience clear about the choice they made knowing they won't be going in over their heads?

this is why i think MOST christians are cherry pickers, because they only follow the easy way...BELIEF and the action is only displayed through judgement and control because god "spoke" to them through the bible.
the real BELIEVERS do what that man did for world vision... thay make a difference and not pussyfoot around life cherry picking what fits and what doesn't

in other words, i don't take christians seriously

Well maybe you should. You could have preached that from a pulpit and you would have got amens form many Christians like myself. I am not perfect by any means, but I do not take Christians who claim that God wants them to be rich in this life seriously. Now there are some rich Christians and I hope they are using their wealth well, but if God wants Christians to have everything then what do we say to those Christians in places like Africa that are dieing every day of starvation and sickness? When looking at Christianity the best advice I can give you is to look at Jesus himself. If you find yourself agreeing with Him then you agree with Christianity. People are messed up and turn things around all the time. Jesus is Christianity. People like me hope to become more and more like Him until we see Him and we are perfected.

 

[waitasec]

Well maybe you should.... When looking at Christianity the best advice I can give you is to look at Jesus himself. If you find yourself agreeing with Him then you agree with Christianity. People are messed up and turn things around all the time. Jesus is Christianity. People like me hope to become more and more like Him until we see Him and we are perfected.

from my perspective the bible was written by men for men. the OT cannot be applied for today because we have overcome the many oppressions the OT seems to endorse; sexism, rape, slavery...
the NT is convoluted and contradictory.
i do not suggest that a person named jesus never existed...but i do believe he never resurrected and his followers were dismayed or based the resurrection on delusion. there are many, many references where paul, for one, is expecting christ to come back within his life time and keeps telling the churches in corinth not tho loose faith because some have fallen asleep while waiting. i believe they believed this was real to them...

in the western world, we have over come biases and oppression and acknowledge individual rights and freedoms all without the help of religion...in the countries where religion is twisted with politics you will find human rights violations

 

[rkm7878]

from my perspective the bible was written by men for men. the OT cannot be applied for today because we have overcome the many oppressions the OT seems to endorse; sexism, rape, slavery...
the NT is convoluted and contradictory.
i do not suggest that a person named jesus never existed...but i do believe he never resurrected and his followers were dismayed or based the resurrection on delusion. there are many, many references where paul, for one, is expecting christ to come back within his life time and keeps telling the churches in corinth not tho loose faith because some have fallen asleep while waiting. i believe they believed this was real to them...

in the western world, we have over come biases and oppression and acknowledge individual rights and freedoms all without the help of religion...in the countries where religion is twisted with politics you will find human rights violations

Paul taught that Jesus might come back at anytime. This is as true today as it was then. Christ said that no one would know when He would return. Jesus also taught that all Christians should live as if He may return today no matter how long we think it takes. You do not pick the Old or New Testaments to live by you live by His word as a whole. The Old Testament is what it is. God who knows all things made the choice to do things the way He did and that led to the coming of Jesus in the New testament. I am not surprised by your reaction to God I use to use the GD word a hundred times a day just to upset a guy I knew that believed in the Bible. God is real to me because He came to me and changed my heart, my mind, and my soul. If He does not do the same for you or anyone else then no amount of debate will change your mind. It is funny now that I can "see" to watch as God's created beings try to justify themselves and even go as for as to tell God why He is wrong. Look at us how good we are! The Bible says that our good works are as filthy rags to God. So good luck making a better world without God. The truth is life flies by and it will not be long before you and I are no longer here. I know where I will be. I hope that one day you know where you will be.