when is jesus speaking directly to his followers?

[waitasec]

With Nicodemus Jesus was speaking to what he perceived Nicodemus's understanding to be.
While Luke presents Christ in his humanity as the son of man; John portrays Him in his deity as the son of God. The real question here is; did John hype Jesus in order to spark belief or faith in his readers? I truly cannot be certain that this is true, but when I read some of the scriptures that John has written, I do have to question his motives. Keep in mind; it was John who wrote that “no man has ascended into heaven.” In order to lift someone up, you first have to separate that person from the crowd. The problem with John’s statement is that it is refuted by the very person that he is trying to spark faith in. It is Jesus himself who refutes John’s statement when he states in the Beatitudes: Matthew 5: 8 states: “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”
John 3: 1-7 states: “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and saith unto him. “Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.” Jesus answered and said unto him. “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born (aware) again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus saith unto him. “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee. Except a man be born (aware) of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom Of God. That which is born (aware) of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born (aware) of the spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee; ye must be born again.”” Jesus knew that Nicodemus didn't comprehend what he was, saying; that's why he was just speaking to him.
Here's the mystery: To be aware of water is important, because when we enter into or mother’s womb, we are immersed in water; more specifically; embryonic fluid. Before we are born; or enter into our mother's womb, we are immersed in spiritual fluid. In modern terms this is the astral plain. Embryonic fluid is frozen astral or spiritual plain. God uses this fluid to create an easy transition for us from the spiritual plain; God's embryonic fluid is ethereal. Jesus told Nicodemus not to marvel or worry about being born again, because he knew that Nicodemus was searching for the truth, and by seeking the truth, he would eventually find it.
Jesus wasn't telling Nicodemus that he must go through some type of ritual, or baptism, because being born again is not something we should marvel or be concerned about, it just a type of awarenes that we need to be born, or made aware of, in order to comprehend spiritual concepts. Entering in to heaven means understanding spiritual concepts.

this conversation, the nicodemus character rather, is only found in the gospel of john which was written 90-95 yrs after jesus died
the tone of the apocalyptic time was turned down a few notches because jesus said he was coming back within their lifetime, even paul, jesus contemporary, mentions this many times
since he didn't...a lot of improvising was required in john's gospel

 

[URAVIP2ME]

this conversation, the nicodemus character rather, is only found in the gospel of john which was written 90-95 yrs after jesus died
the tone of the apocalyptic time was turned down a few notches because jesus said he was coming back within their lifetime, even paul, jesus contemporary, mentions this many times
since he didn't...a lot of improvising was required in john's gospel

Where does Jesus say he was coming back in the lifetime of the apostles?

Please notice how Jesus explained that it would be a while before apocalyptic times:
At Luke 19 vs11-15 In Jesus illustration he goes to a far country [heaven] to first receive a kingdom, in the meantime his followers on earth were to take care of spiritual matters or kingdom business. -Matthew 28vs19,20; 24v14.

If Jesus was going to take action in the first century there would have been no need for his disciples to ask him the questions of Matthew 24v3?
Or, no reason for Jesus to give such a detailed long answer or explanation.

Matthew chapter 24 bridges a l-o-n-g period of time.
Matthew 24 has both an minor and a major fulfillment.
Parts of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 were fulfilled in the year 70.
The rest was future, or for our time frame described by Paul as the last days of badness on earth before there is divine intervention into mankind's affairs.

Also, Jesus gave us the illustration of the Wheat and the Weeds [tares]:
Genuine Wheat-like Christians would grow together over the centuries with the fake weed-like Christians until the harvest time, or our time frame, time of separation. Separation as described at Matthew 25vs32 of upright sheep-like people being separated from bad goat-like people.

Also, Jesus explains to us at Revelation 12vs9,12 that because Satan has a limited time, Satan brings 'woe' to our earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yes and so was his conversation with the tax collector, the rich ruler and nicodemus....so how do you know which conversation applies to YOU TODAY?
i guess selling everything you own seems a bit much, huh

The four gospel accounts are meant to go together as a whole.

Please compare Matthew 19vs 16-21 with Luke 18vs18-22.

Doesn't Jesus perceive what is in the man's heart, or his attachment to material things, because at Luke 19 v22 Jesus points out to that man in particular that 'he' [the man] lacks one thing.
KJV: Yet lackest thou [you] one thing.
The 'you' [thou] was the man.
Jesus did not say 'all' lacked, but the man lacked.

Where did Jesus ever instruct that everyone should sell everything?
Please notice Luke 8v3: Those women ministered to the apostles out of their own belongings in order to help the apostles to keep on spreading the good news of God's kingdom to others. Did Jesus say they should have sold their belongings? No.
On the surface ministering or serving out of ones belongings might not seem like much, but remember back in the first century they did not have hotels accommodations as we do. They would have served more or less like a bed and breakfast. No supermarkets so time and energy and shopping plus preparing meals. Maybe clothing needed to made or mended, etc.
If Jesus wanted them to sell 'all', then they could not have had belongings to be able to help the apostles.

Back to Luke 18v29: Jesus is not saying to abandon your family.
Notice it says for 'the kingdom sake' .
That means a spiritual not fleshly reason.
So anyone who leaves to be a missionary, or do something to further spreading the good news of God's kingdom would be blessed for their spiritual sacrifice of what they had given up. Please notice in that verse Jesus is Not saying who left all material possessions. It takes material things to support oneself in such a service to God. Paul made tents to help support himself in the preaching work and missionary tours so as not to be a financial burden to anyone.
There was no paid clergy. All taught others for free. -Matt 10v8 b
They could not do that if no one worked.-1Cor 3v8; 2Thess 3v10; 1Tim 5v8.
Remember the only time Jesus 'passed the plate' was when he fed people bread and fish. Up until around the last three years of his life Jesus worked as a carpenter. Jesus knew his followers would be doing the kingdom preaching/teaching work the rest of their lives. -Matthew 28vs19,20.

Jesus half-brother James [2v2,3,8 ] wrote to the Christian congregation not to be partial to anyone, but treat all with the same respect as to one wearing a 'gold' ring and expensive clothing and the same respect to a poor person.

I hope the ^above^ is of some help.
Best regards.......

 

[waitasec]

Where does Jesus say he was coming back in the lifetime of the apostles?

Mark 8:34-9:1Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life[c] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? 37Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? 38If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

Mark 9
1And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing HERE will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

if your are thinking he is referring to the transfiguration...that is a far reach.. because that "happened" only 6 day later...and mentioning death within 6 days is not at all likely....

besides he said "the kingdom of God COME with power"
the word is COME not GO or ascend...but COME

 

[waitasec]

Where does Jesus say he was coming back in the lifetime of the apostles?

paul and peter were JC contemporary and the letters to corinthians/thesalonians/peters epistles were written BEFORE the gospels OF MATTHEW MARK LUKE AND JOHN so of course THEY SAY the end has already arrived
1 cor 10:11 "These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
1 PETER 4:7The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray.

was paul AND peter writing to you and me? NO they were writing to the church in corinth and to peters followers

1 cor 7:31 the form of this world is passing away

1 Thesalonians 4:13-16

13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

peter and paul believed they were going to witness the 2nd coming

1 cor 7:29
29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

so paul didn't want the married couples to have sex because the end was NEAR....

 

[waitasec]

The four gospel accounts are meant to go together as a whole.

Please compare Matthew 19vs 16-21 with Luke 18vs18-22.

Doesn't Jesus perceive what is in the man's heart, or his attachment to material things, because at Luke 19 v22 Jesus points out to that man in particular that 'he' [the man] lacks one thing.
KJV: Yet lackest thou [you] one thing.
The 'you' [thou] was the man.
Jesus did not say 'all' lacked, but the man lacked.

Where did Jesus ever instruct that everyone should sell everything?
Please notice Luke 8v3: Those women ministered to the apostles out of their own belongings in order to help the apostles to keep on spreading the good news of God's kingdom to others. Did Jesus say they should have sold their belongings? No.
On the surface ministering or serving out of ones belongings might not seem like much, but remember back in the first century they did not have hotels accommodations as we do. They would have served more or less like a bed and breakfast. No supermarkets so time and energy and shopping plus preparing meals. Maybe clothing needed to made or mended, etc.
If Jesus wanted them to sell 'all', then they could not have had belongings to be able to help the apostles.

Back to Luke 18v29: Jesus is not saying to abandon your family.
Notice it says for 'the kingdom sake' .
That means a spiritual not fleshly reason.
So anyone who leaves to be a missionary, or do something to further spreading the good news of God's kingdom would be blessed for their spiritual sacrifice of what they had given up. Please notice in that verse Jesus is Not saying who left all material possessions. It takes material things to support oneself in such a service to God. Paul made tents to help support himself in the preaching work and missionary tours so as not to be a financial burden to anyone.
There was no paid clergy. All taught others for free. -Matt 10v8 b
They could not do that if no one worked.-1Cor 3v8; 2Thess 3v10; 1Tim 5v8.
Remember the only time Jesus 'passed the plate' was when he fed people bread and fish. Up until around the last three years of his life Jesus worked as a carpenter. Jesus knew his followers would be doing the kingdom preaching/teaching work the rest of their lives. -Matthew 28vs19,20.

Jesus half-brother James [2v2,3,8 ] wrote to the Christian congregation not to be partial to anyone, but treat all with the same respect as to one wearing a 'gold' ring and expensive clothing and the same respect to a poor person.

I hope the ^above^ is of some help.
Best regards.......

what is faith without works?
an empty word....
justify your faith all you want...
it's your life...but just don't appoint yourself as a mediator between my free will and your fictitious god...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mark 9
1And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing HERE will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
if your are thinking he is referring to the transfiguration...that is a far reach.. because that "happened" only 6 day later...and mentioning death within 6 days is not at all likely....
besides he said "the kingdom of God COME with power"
the word is COME not GO or ascend...but COME

Why would the transfiguration vision be a far reach?
Next verse Mark 9v2 says transfigured, doesn't it?

Remember the transfiguration was a 'vision'- Matt 17v9.
They saw that vision before they tasted death.

They had a foregleam of future kingdom conditions.
Not the actual reality at that time.
Jesus 'glory' time is mentioned in connection to Matthew 25vs31,32.
That is the time frame and action just ahead of us.
We will see the kingdom of God come with power.
Power as described at Isaiah [11v4] and Rev [19vs11,14,15]

 

[URAVIP2ME]

1 cor 7:29
29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;
so paul didn't want the married couples to have sex because the end was NEAR....

What time was short or reduced in Paul's day?
There is both a minor and a major fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24.
The end of the Jewish system was near and came in the year 70.

Paul wrote at Ephesians [5vs28,29] that husbands are to love their wives as their own bodies, so 1st Cor is not talking about the marital due but putting emphasis on spiritual matters. Single people can devote more time and energy to spiritual things. Christians are not to be caught up as the world is in possibly putting mates above all other things including worshiping God.
Spiritually they should live as if they had no wife.
Paul was not addressing physical marriage but godly devotion.

Basically, the Scriptures were written for our day.
Spiritual priorities are utmost in importance today because
the scene of the world is changing daily and we all need to be spiritually alert and not be distracted.

 

[waitasec]

What time was short or reduced in Paul's day?

"For this world in its present form is passing away."

what do you think that means?

There is both a minor and a major fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24.
The end of the Jewish system was near and came in the year 70.

Paul wrote at Ephesians [5vs28,29] that husbands are to love their wives as their own bodies, so 1st Cor is not talking about the marital due but putting emphasis on spiritual matters. Single people can devote more time and energy to spiritual things. Christians are not to be caught up as the world is in possibly putting mates above all other things including worshiping God.
Spiritually they should live as if they had no wife.
Paul was not addressing physical marriage but godly devotion.

you cannot deny the urgency paul was writing in, "What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;"
1 thes 4:15
"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep"

his point is clear
if you choose to ignore this blunder, well go right ahead

Basically, the Scriptures were written for our day.

that is what i am trying to understand; how do christians decode scripture?
there is no logic to this system.

Spiritual priorities are utmost in importance today because
the scene of the world is changing daily and we all need to be spiritually alert and not be distracted.

that is a interesting thing you said;
lets see in the OT god condoned slavery, the rape of virgins, the slaughter of innocent babies, women's subjection to men...and all those 600 and some laws in leviticus that were pretty much impossible to keep...

even in the NT slavery and subjection of women was never dealt with because HUMAN RIGHTS were ignored...

so now here we are in the 21st century and we JUST realized that women are EQUAL TO MEN and just a little bit before that realization, slavery was found to be immoral...skip to our not so distant past and then there we will find;
segregation, bi-racial marriages were considerred to be a human rights issues too...and now to the present time;
the homosexual community is FIGHTING for equality in marriage...

what spiritual priorities are you talking about?
because EVERYTHING i mentioned was fought against by the religious right...they were pro slavery, pro segregation, anti bi-racial marriages, against women's equality and now they're fighting against equal rights for same sex couples
like i said;
believe what you want but don't think your "spiritual priorities" trump my RIGHTS
it's just a lot of conservative ignorance IMO

 

[waitasec]

Where does Jesus say he was coming back in the lifetime of the apostles?

If Jesus was going to take action in the first century there would have been no need for his disciples to ask him the questions of Matthew 24v3?
Or, no reason for Jesus to give such a detailed long answer or explanation.

matthew 23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

so is jesus talking to YOU...
i think not

Matthew chapter 24 bridges a l-o-n-g period of time.
Matthew 24 has both an minor and a major fulfillment.
Parts of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 were fulfilled in the year 70.
The rest was future, or for our time frame described by Paul as the last days of badness on earth before there is divine intervention into mankind's affairs.

Also, Jesus gave us the illustration of the Wheat and the Weeds [tares]:
Genuine Wheat-like Christians would grow together over the centuries with the fake weed-like Christians until the harvest time, or our time frame, time of separation. Separation as described at Matthew 25vs32 of upright sheep-like people being separated from bad goat-like people.

Also, Jesus explains to us at Revelation 12vs9,12 that because Satan has a limited time, Satan brings 'woe' to our earth.

Matther 24:32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

the jews were waiting for their messiah
he was an apocalyptic figure...
oops

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, we can see by the beginning of the gospels the Jews in the first century knew the time was right for the Messiah to appear. However, some wrongly were expecting a political Messiah to free them from the Roman yoke.

The major fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24 is set for our day.
Although the day and hour is unknown even to Jesus that does not mean Jesus left us with no insight. We can discern by the insight Jesus gave us rather than by hindsight.
Jesus gave an illustration about seasons. When we see blossoms in spring we know summer is near and summer follows spring. So the global events or features of Jesus composite sign of Matthew 24 show we are in the summer of his taking action into mankind's affairs- Matt 25v32.

The generation of Jesus' day [Matt 23v36] did see the Romans destroy Jerusalem in the year 70.
In the of our day [Mt24v34] we will see the political 'kings' [Rev17v2] turn on the world's false religious sector or 'queen' [Rev 18v7] before Jesus takes the action described at Isaiah [11v4] and Rev. [19vs11,14,15].

Right, we must also be [spiritually] ready because we do not know on which day the Son of Man will come..... Doesn't 1st Thess 5vs2,3 says Jesus comes by surprise like a thief?
The precursor is as verse 3 says when they [the powers that be] are saying 'Peace and Safety' or 'Peace and Security' then sudden destruction will come.
A hard and swift end to these last days of wickedness on earth.
[Psalm 92v7 37v38; Proverbs 2vs21,22;10v30; 2 Tim 3vs1-5,13].
So before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill,
God will bring to ruin all those ruining the earth.
-Rev 11v18 b.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"For this world in its present form is passing away."
what do you think that means?
you cannot deny the urgency paul was writing in, "What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;"
1 thes 4:15
"According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep"
his point is clear
if you choose to ignore this blunder, well go right ahead
that is what i am trying to understand; how do christians decode scripture?
there is no logic to this system.
that is a interesting thing you said;
lets see in the OT god condoned slavery, the rape of virgins, the slaughter of innocent babies, women's subjection to men...and all those 600 and some laws in leviticus that were pretty much impossible to keep...
even in the NT slavery and subjection of women was never dealt with because HUMAN RIGHTS were ignored...
so now here we are in the 21st century and we JUST realized that women are EQUAL TO MEN and just a little bit before that realization, slavery was found to be immoral...skip to our not so distant past and then there we will find;
segregation, bi-racial marriages were considerred to be a human rights issues too...and now to the present time;
the homosexual community is FIGHTING for equality in marriage...
what spiritual priorities are you talking about?
because EVERYTHING i mentioned was fought against by the religious right...they were pro slavery, pro segregation, anti bi-racial marriages, against women's equality and now they're fighting against equal rights for same sex couples
like i said;
believe what you want but don't think your "spiritual priorities" trump my RIGHTS
it's just a lot of conservative ignorance IMO

1st Thess 4v15 is set for our day or time frame.
One way to decode is: Matthew 24v14. Never before has the good news of God's kingdom been proclaimed on a world wide or global scale as today.
No one or nothing can get rid of the Bible, and no one or nothing can stop the progression of earth-wide spreading of Scripture.

Please post the Scriptures you have in mind about God condoning.
One subject at a time if possible.

Under the Mosaic law there were no debtors prisons.
If a person was in debt he could serve as a slave for no more than 7 years.
Masters were Not to treat one in such servitude with abuse.
[Ex 21v2; Lev 25v10; Deut 15v12]
What was the Jubilee Year for?

Please remember there is a difference between Christendom [so-called Christianity] and first-century Christianity.

Even the United Nations today sees a dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today. With backing the UN can be strengthened to turn on the world's religious sector that has run amok playing false to God.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, we can see by the beginning of the gospels the Jews in the first century knew the time was right for the Messiah to appear. However, some wrongly were expecting a political Messiah to free them from the Roman yoke.

The major fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24 is set for our day.

why do you say that? how can you decode the bible when jesus is speaking to his disciples or to a crowd...how can you apply this for today?

seems to me that is the end times he's talking about

Please notice how Jesus explained that it would be a while before apocalyptic times:
At Luke 19 vs11-15 In Jesus illustration he goes to a far country [heaven] to first receive a kingdom,

wow...
is that all you got out of this parable...?
what is the parable about...?
certainly not the end times...
i am flabbergasted

If Jesus was going to take action in the first century there would have been no need for his disciples to ask him the questions of Matthew 24v3?
Or, no reason for Jesus to give such a detailed long answer or explanation.

they asked him when all those things were going to happen AFTER he said what would happen...that is why they asked

Although the day and hour is unknown even to Jesus that does not mean Jesus left us with no insight. We can discern by the insight Jesus gave us rather than by hindsight.
Jesus gave an illustration about seasons. When we see blossoms in spring we know summer is near and summer follows spring. So the global events or features of Jesus composite sign of Matthew 24 show we are in the summer of his taking action into mankind's affairs- Matt 25v32.

you are assuming we are in the summer season before the end times?
how can you be certain of this? what does that mean REALLY?
it seems as though to be a believer of jesus you have to become a detective and figure out riddles?
a ridiculous notion...why is it all so convoluted? why is all so contradictory?

The generation of Jesus' day [Matt 23v36] did see the Romans destroy Jerusalem in the year 70.

in vs matthew 23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? ... 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

how do you translate that to mean the romans destruction of jerusalem?

Right, we must also be [spiritually] ready because we do not know on which day the Son of Man will come..... Doesn't 1st Thess 5vs2,3 says Jesus comes by surprise like a thief?
The precursor is as verse 3 says when they [the powers that be] are saying 'Peace and Safety' or 'Peace and Security' then sudden destruction will come.
A hard and swift end to these last days of wickedness on earth.
[Psalm 92v7 37v38; Proverbs 2vs21,22;10v30; 2 Tim 3vs1-5,13].
So before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill,
God will bring to ruin all those ruining the earth.
-Rev 11v18 b.

so far all you have done is to prove my point

the reasoning behind your logic is circular
the entire point of this thread was to show how christians twist and cherry pick the scripture to fit their agenda, what ever it may be.

the gospel of john was written almost 100 years after jesus died. you will find NOTHING referring to the end times in the gospel of john

 

[waitasec]

1st Thess 4v15 is set for our day or time frame.
One way to decode is: Matthew 24v14.

obviously, paul and the author of matthew were contemporaries
paul thought the end was going to happen in his lifetime...so did the author of matthew... i have already pointed this out

1st Thess 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

how is that for our day and time..? he was writing specifically for that time to a specific church
NOT for now...where do you get these ideas from?

Please post the Scriptures you have in mind about God condoning.
One subject at a time if possible.

the subjection of woman to men;gen 3:16

slavery;Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

human rights at it's best...


exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."
you can find more here:
What the Old Testament says about slavery

killing of innocent children/raping of virgins
numbers 31:17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

rape; Dt 22:28-29

Under the Mosaic law there were no debtors prisons.
If a person was in debt he could serve as a slave for no more than 7 years.
Masters were Not to treat one in such servitude with abuse.
[Ex 21v2; Lev 25v10; Deut 15v12]
What was the Jubilee Year for?

Slaves in ancient Israel were automatically emancipated after 6 years of slavery, but only if they were Jewish. However, if the slave owner "gave" the slave a wife, the owner could keep the wife and any children as his property.
deuteronomy 15:12-18: "And if thy brother, a Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.

Please remember there is a difference between Christendom [so-called Christianity] and first-century Christianity.

Even the United Nations today sees a dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today. With backing the UN can be strengthened to turn on the world's religious sector that has run amok playing false to God.

doesn't matter really, it's all the same...

 

[walmul]

i am very curious as to how christians decipher when jesus is talking to them personally through the bible or when he is only speaking to the crowd or a particular person. for example;

in the famous John 3:16 jesus is having a conversation with nicodemus
but somehow that conversation, in the minds of EVERY christian, can be applied to everyone, then and now

but when jesus is talking to a certain ruler, in luke 18, who asks; "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" even though he has followed all the commandments
jesus replies with "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

this commandment is mentioned TWICE in the gospels and this commandment in john is only mentioned ONCE.

even when he is speaking to a crowd or to his disciples he says,
not all of you will taste death before the son of man will come with power in his kingdom...

how do you decode the scripture and figure out when his words are meant FOR YOU TODAY?

Hi waitasec, your question have probably been asked by millions many a day.

A statement in Ezekial chapter 1 about the vision Ezekiel had of God is an example of your question, in this vision he saw a storm coming from the north and eventually some kind of craft carrying God, (you can read the chapter-too long to quote here), anyway; in short, many people perceive this as a vision of God speaking to Ezekiel, myself interpret it as God using some kind of transport to visit Ezekiel in order to bring a message to Ezekiel which he had to give to the people, a man living in that time, and having no idea about aircraft or space ships would have a hard time describing what he saw in a logical way, the scribes of the bible at the time this was written down probably had their hands in their hair with efforts to put a reasonable explanation forward to the people.

Some time ago a question was put to Michael Heiser probably Zecharaiah Sitchin's biggest critic regarding this, his answer was this:

(The vision symbolised the astrological meanings of the time used by priests to enterpret events.)

If that is the case then surely every bible should be sold with an expert trained in all things to every single religious participant, and then it is also an indication that somehow the bible is one huge code only understandable to certain highly trained specialists, and the effort in distributing it to the layman is pointless.

walmul.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

waitasec-

The time frame of 1st Thess 4v15 says: unto the coming of the Lord.
Has that time of Jesus glory mentioned at Matthew 25v31,32 already occurred?

Gen 3v16 is showing what is the result of human imperfection caused by disobedience.

If you were in debt under the Constitution of the Mosaic law, how would you get out of debt?_________

Yes, there was justice for the woman of Deut 22vs28,29.
The man could not get away with what he had done.

Jews were under Jewish law that is why the Jewish law applied to Jews.

Matthew 24v3 doesn't it plainly say privately the disciples came to Jesus?
Where are the crowds in a private situation or setting?
Our day is the end times of badness on earth
By Jesus answer to his disciples in Matthew 24 is how we can discern or decode that the setting is for the last days of badness on earth.
Isn't verses 21,22,31 for our day?

Why say Luke 19 vs 11-27 is not for our day or the end times of badness on earth?

Didn't the Romans destroy Jerusalem in the year 70?
What happened to Jerusalem's temple?
Wasn't it left just as Jesus said at Matt 24v2 that there would Not be left a stone upon a stone that would not be thrown down? Their religious house [temple] Matt 32v38 was abandoned to them just as Jesus said it would be.

John did talk about the end times or last days of badness on earth because before John wrote the gospel of John he wrote Revelation for us. Revelation means a revealing.
The book of Revelation is a revealing of the future or the grand happy climax that Jesus 1000-year reign over earth will not only bring Peace on Earth, but God, John wrote, will even do away with death.
- Rev 21vs4,5.

 

[waitasec]

waitasec-

The time frame of 1st Thess 4v15 says: unto the coming of the Lord.
Has that time of Jesus glory mentioned at Matthew 25v31,32 already occurred?

Gen 3v16 is showing what is the result of human imperfection caused by disobedience.

If you were in debt under the Constitution of the Mosaic law, how would you get out of debt?_________

Yes, there was justice for the woman of Deut 22vs28,29.
The man could not get away with what he had done.

Jews were under Jewish law that is why the Jewish law applied to Jews.

Matthew 24v3 doesn't it plainly say privately the disciples came to Jesus?
Where are the crowds in a private situation or setting?
Our day is the end times of badness on earth
By Jesus answer to his disciples in Matthew 24 is how we can discern or decode that the setting is for the last days of badness on earth.
Isn't verses 21,22,31 for our day?

Why say Luke 19 vs 11-27 is not for our day or the end times of badness on earth?

Didn't the Romans destroy Jerusalem in the year 70?
What happened to Jerusalem's temple?
Wasn't it left just as Jesus said at Matt 24v2 that there would Not be left a stone upon a stone that would not be thrown down? Their religious house [temple] Matt 32v38 was abandoned to them just as Jesus said it would be.

John did talk about the end times or last days of badness on earth because before John wrote the gospel of John he wrote Revelation for us. Revelation means a revealing.
The book of Revelation is a revealing of the future or the grand happy climax that Jesus 1000-year reign over earth will not only bring Peace on Earth, but God, John wrote, will even do away with death.
- Rev 21vs4,5.

matthew 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

how can you not understand that THESE things NEVER happened
why are you waiting for something that is OBVIOUSLY not going to happen
they ALL died waiting for it...and sadly enough, so will you.

am i understanding you that human rights issues are not something the god in your bible acknowledges...

are you kidding me? slavery is a human rights issue, i don't care if anyone owes anybody anything
owing money does not trump human life...

"Yes, there was justice for the woman of Deut 22vs28,29.
The man could not get away with what he had done."

the woman/girl was to MARRY the man that RAPED her
and you consider that justice...?

you know, it's actually ludicrous considering having your own daughter marry the man that rapes her...

you are beyond the point of reasoning

if you're living for the after life
YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD
have fun pal

 

[waitasec]

Didn't the Romans destroy Jerusalem in the year 70?
What happened to Jerusalem's temple?
Wasn't it left just as Jesus said at Matt 24v2 that there would Not be left a stone upon a stone that would not be thrown down? Their religious house [temple] Matt 32v38 was abandoned to them just as Jesus said it would be.

matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

i don't understand how you think jc is only talking about the temple here...

jc said ALL of those things would happen at the same time... look around you, we are still on earth. besides, biblical scholars generally agree that matthew was written between the years 70 and 100.
prophesy...what a hoot

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Matthew 24 there is both a minor and a major fulfillment. [small scale and large scale]
The temple arrangement was part of the minor or limited fulfillment.

NO. I am not talking about only the siege of the year 70 when the temple was destroyed which was Not the future generation or future great tribulation of Matt 24v21.
Repeat, isn't verses 21,22,31 and vs 34 for 'our' day or time frame?__________

It was in the year 66 [Luke 19vs43,44; 21vs20-24] that the Christians heeded Jesus words. They left Jerusalem four years before the siege of 70.


Today, those of Matthew 25v32 are not living for an 'after' life. They are alive on earth, possibly still living on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory', or his taking action into mankind's affairs. Those living ones can remain alive on earth and keep on living on earth right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth with having everlasting life in view with the prospect of living forever on a paradisaic earth.



Remember under the Mosaic law there were judges and each case was handled on its own merit. We are Not under the Mosaic law.

 

[waitasec]

In Matthew 24 there is both a minor and a major fulfillment. [small scale and large scale]
The temple arrangement was part of the minor or limited fulfillment.

NO. I am not talking about only the siege of the year 70 when the temple was destroyed which was Not the future generation or future great tribulation of Matt 24v21.
Repeat, isn't verses 21,22,31 and vs 34 for 'our' day or time frame?__________

It was in the year 66 [Luke 19vs43,44; 21vs20-24] that the Christians heeded Jesus words. They left Jerusalem four years before the siege of 70.


Today, those of Matthew 25v32 are not living for an 'after' life. They are alive on earth, possibly still living on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory', or his taking action into mankind's affairs. Those living ones can remain alive on earth and keep on living on earth right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth with having everlasting life in view with the prospect of living forever on a paradisaic earth.



Remember under the Mosaic law there were judges and each case was handled on its own merit. We are Not under the Mosaic law.

jc was talking to the people of his time
"THIS GENERATION" spoken in the context of "will NOT taste death"
is a BIG indication he was speaking to THEM then; not YOU now.
the only way you can justify the reason the end NEVR happened is by reading into the scripture and cherry pick the verses that seem to back up your belief...
question is, why would you want to believe in something so awful?