when is jesus speaking directly to his followers?

[waitasec]

Is it any wonder that Acts [20vs29,30] forewarn that because of false clergy dressed in sheep's clothing the flock of God would be fleeced by them?

Instead of teaching the words that came out of Jesus mouth, the wolf-like clergy would teach by putting words in Jesus mouth. In first-century Christianity Jesus and his followers were neutral in the affairs of the world.
Even between the issues of the Jews and Romans they remained neutral.
If the Churches of Christendom has not drifted away from first-century Christian teachings and practices they would have been following in Jesus footsteps, so to speak, instead of their own footsteps, or agenda, which is often political.

didn't your god condone slavery and the subjection of women?
please...

 

[waitasec]

32 "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all those things happening, you know that the end is near. It is right at the door. 34 What I'm about to tell you is true. The people living at that time will certainly not pass away until all those things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away. But my words will never pass away. From Mathew 24

This chapter is speaking of end time events. See in this translation, it says "the people living at that time" instead of "this generation". The translators understood the chapter was about end times.

Side note, the fig trees is symbolic of Israel. When it begins to 'bud', can be when Israel became a nation again in 1948. So the people living after that happened, and when they see all these things talked about in this chapter begin to happen, they can know the end is near and they won't pass away before all this has happened.

my translation says:
34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
vs 33In the same way, when YOU see all those things happening, YOU know that the end is near.

he did not say THEY; when THEY see all those things happening THEY know that the end is near...

he was talking about them then.... not you now

That generation has passed.

i am utterly confused

was this passage about the end times as you posted?
but then you say that generation has passed?
huh?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

didn't your god condone slavery and the subjection of women?
please...

Under the law to women it was important, if not vital to them, to have a husband to take care of them. If there were more woman then men, the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife, so no woman would be without a husband or without children.

There were no debtors prisons in ancient Israel.
If a person got into debt he could get out of it by servitude or slavery.
Slavery was common back then.
Hebrew slavery was Not like the southern slavery of the American South.
Under the Law a slave was to be treated as a hired worker,
and when released his master was to give him provisions.
The longest period of time anyone could serve as a slave was seven [7] years.
What was the Jubilee Year for?

 

[waitasec]

Is it any wonder that Acts [20vs29,30] forewarn that because of false clergy dressed in sheep's clothing the flock of God would be fleeced by them?

Instead of teaching the words that came out of Jesus mouth, the wolf-like clergy would teach by putting words in Jesus mouth. In first-century Christianity Jesus and his followers were neutral in the affairs of the world.
Even between the issues of the Jews and Romans they remained neutral.
If the Churches of Christendom has not drifted away from first-century Christian teachings and practices they would have been following in Jesus footsteps, so to speak, instead of their own footsteps, or agenda, which is often political.

Under the law to women it was important, if not vital to them, to have a husband to take care of them. If there were more woman then men, the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife, so no woman would be without a husband or without children.

There were no debtors prisons in ancient Israel.
If a person got into debt he could get out of it by servitude or slavery.
Slavery was common back then.
Hebrew slavery was Not like the southern slavery of the American South.
Under the Law a slave was to be treated as a hired worker,
and when released his master was to give him provisions.
The longest period of time anyone could serve as a slave was seven [7] years.
What was the Jubilee Year for?

so why would you call these people, "the wolf-like clergy would teach by putting words in Jesus mouth"? since they were only following what the bible taught...?

 

[waitasec]

Under the law to women it was important, if not vital to them, to have a husband to take care of them. If there were more woman then men, the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife, so no woman would be without a husband or without children.

There were no debtors prisons in ancient Israel.
If a person got into debt he could get out of it by servitude or slavery.
Slavery was common back then.
Hebrew slavery was Not like the southern slavery of the American South.
Under the Law a slave was to be treated as a hired worker,
and when released his master was to give him provisions.
The longest period of time anyone could serve as a slave was seven [7] years.
What was the Jubilee Year for?

Slaves in ancient Israel were automatically emancipated after 6 years of slavery, but only if they were Jewish. However, if the slave owner "gave" the slave a wife, the owner could keep the wife and any children as his property.

Passages in Exodus state that female slaves who were sold into slavery by their fathers would be slaves forever. A corresponding passage in Exodus contradicts this; it required female slaves to be given their freedom after 6 years.

One could purchase a slave from a foreign nation or from foreigners living with them. These slaves would remain in slavery forever, unless the owner chooses to frees them An Israelite who was a slave could be freed by a family member or by himself if he had the money. The cost of freeing a slave was computed on the basis of the number of years to the next Jubilee Year; this could be 1 to 50 years. Male Israelite slaves were automatically freed during the Jubilee Year. Depending upon which verse was being followed, female Israelite slaves might also have been freed at that time as well. Foreign slaves were out of luck.

 

[waitasec]

Under the law to women it was important, if not vital to them, to have a husband to take care of them. If there were more woman then men, the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife, so no woman would be without a husband or without children.

you realize how absurd your explanation is, don't you?

in your gods eyes, a women wasn't worth anything UNLESS she was married or pledged to a man AND had children.

these laws in the bible were made by men. period.
why did women need men to take care of them? do you really believe the "god" in your bible set it up that way...?

women slaves were treated the worst. their children were sold into slavery... what's your explanation for that?

"a man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. the female slave would be whipped. there is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity"
What the Old Testament says about slavery

 

[URAVIP2ME]

you realize how absurd your explanation is, don't you?
in your gods eyes, a women wasn't worth anything UNLESS she was married or pledged to a man AND had children.
these laws in the bible were made by men. period.
why did women need men to take care of them? do you really believe the "god" in your bible set it up that way...?
women slaves were treated the worst. their children were sold into slavery... what's your explanation for that?
"a man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. the female slave would be whipped. there is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity"

Women wanted children under the time of the law covenant or contract.
Women knew the Messiah would come through the Israelite nation.
That was a wonderful prospect for a woman back then.

The Hebrew woman slave could become a concubine and also could become a wife. She was treated with the same due right of daughters. Nothing could diminish her sustenance, clothing or marriage due. Failure entitled freedom if the woman chose.- Exodus 21vs7-11.

Where does it say female slaves could be raped with impunity?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

so why would you call these people, "the wolf-like clergy would teach by putting words in Jesus mouth"? since they were only following what the bible taught...?

The point of Acts 20vs29,30 is that what they were teaching was Not following what the Bible taught. Like the Pharisees of Jesus day were Not following what was taught in the Mosaic law but they were teaching their own traditions or customs outside of Scripture.- Mark 7v7,13; Matt 15v9

Didn't Jesus say in Matthew chapter seven that many would come 'in his name' but prove false?

 

[waitasec]

Women wanted children under the time of the law covenant or contract.
Women knew the Messiah would come through the Israelite nation.
That was a wonderful prospect for a woman back then.

aren't they still waiting?

are you kidding me?
women had NO value...equal rights did not exist then...only the rights for men were considered...

The Hebrew woman slave could become a concubine and also could become a wife. She was treated with the same due right of daughters. Nothing could diminish her sustenance, clothing or marriage due. Failure entitled freedom if the woman chose.- Exodus 21vs7-11.

how very nice for them... especially for those that were pledged

Where does it say female slaves could be raped with impunity?

Leviticus 19:20-22 (New International Version)

20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

waitasec-

Doesn't verse 20 say 'the man' not woman; atonement for 'him' not her; for the sin 'he' not her committed?_______ There was no blame placed on the woman in that verse.
The punishment of making the expensive animal sacrifice was placed upon the man not the woman. She was not considered the fornicator 'he' was. 'He' did wrong, not her, and blame was clearly placed, not on her, but blame on 'him'. If 'he' would have not been repentant not offering the sacrifice, he, not her, would have been put to death.

 

[waitasec]

waitasec-

Doesn't verse 20 say 'the man' not woman; atonement for 'him' not her; for the sin 'he' not her committed?_______ There was no blame placed on the woman in that verse.
The punishment of making the expensive animal sacrifice was placed upon the man not the woman. She was not considered the fornicator 'he' was. 'He' did wrong, not her, and blame was clearly placed, not on her, but blame on 'him'. If 'he' would have not been repentant not offering the sacrifice, he, not her, would have been put to death.

there is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged;
show me what the punishment is if she was NOT pledged...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

there is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged;
show me what the punishment is if she was NOT pledged...

Treatment varied depending on circumstances.
What passage did you have in mind?

As far as taking war-time captives:
At Deut 20vs11-14 there 'first' was a warning given to the enemy.
If they went to war with the enemy [Deut 21vs10-14] and wanted to marry one of the captive women, then after one month [vs13] they could do so.
They could not sell her nor make merchandise [prostitute] out of her.....

 

[waitasec]

waitasec-

Doesn't verse 20 say 'the man' not woman; atonement for 'him' not her; for the sin 'he' not her committed?_______ There was no blame placed on the woman in that verse.
The punishment of making the expensive animal sacrifice was placed upon the man not the woman. She was not considered the fornicator 'he' was. 'He' did wrong, not her, and blame was clearly placed, not on her, but blame on 'him'. If 'he' would have not been repentant not offering the sacrifice, he, not her, would have been put to death.

there is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged;
show me what the punishment is if she was NOT pledged...

Treatment varied depending on circumstances.
What passage did you have in mind?

Leviticus 19:20-22 (New International Version)

20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.

apparently there are no passages in regards to girls that are not pledged
wonder why? maybe because they had no human value to them for being single :slap:

 

[URAVIP2ME]

waitasec-

Perhaps no passages of females not pledged is because under the law every woman was allowed to have a husband. That is one reason at that time, especially during times of war, when there might be more men than woman the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife. No woman needed to be homeless, and if possible childless.

Did Adam have human value while he was single?_______

 

[waitasec]

waitasec-

Perhaps no passages of females not pledged is because under the law every woman was allowed to have a husband. That is one reason at that time, especially during times of war, when there might be more men than woman the law allowed for a man to have more than one wife. No woman needed to be homeless, and if possible childless.

ah guess again...women were considered to be property
hence...

Exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....go out by himself. And [verse 5] continues if the servant will plainly say I love my wife and children; I will Not go free, then as verse 6 B continues ...he will serve him forever..

 

[waitasec]

....go out by himself. And [verse 5] continues if the servant will plainly say I love my wife and children; I will Not go free, then as verse 6 B continues ...he will serve him forever..

oh silly me
so basically the master can hold them as ransom as well, if he loves them (whatever that means)
but don't stop there....

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.


what a wonderful system of equal rights ... and an argument for slavery....

what do you think that means?
If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.
is she considered to be a barren livestock...or isn't good in bed....please

we can keep going if you want...

Exodus 21:8: "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

in other words if the husband does not treat her well then she is to leave without anything...put up or shut up....nice


are you serious?
you are defending this mistreatment of another human being, only because it is in the bible....

what a sad sad sad world we live in

 

[URAVIP2ME]

RE: go out free, without money sounds as if it will not cost her anything.

He would have no right to sell her to a strange nation [Ex 21v8] because then she could be unprotected by foreigners. He is the one dealing deceitfully with her. She is protected from further harm by him or a foreigner.

Since Exodus 21v10 says another wife [meaning a second wife]
and 'if he will not do unto her'...Deut 21vs15 to 17 shows protection for that hated wife.
Right of his firstborn to her remains intact.

 

[waitasec]

RE: go out free, without money sounds as if it will not cost her anything.

you're reaching...
you think a women would be in a position of having money as a slave?

He would have no right to sell her to a strange nation [Ex 21v8] because then she could be unprotected by foreigners. He is the one dealing deceitfully with her. She is protected from further harm by him or a foreigner.

Since Exodus 21v10 says another wife [meaning a second wife]
and 'if he will not do unto her'...Deut 21vs15 to 17 shows protection for that hated wife.
Right of his firstborn to her remains intact.

your sense of morality is questionable
where does the god in your bible condemn such horrible treatment

i'd like to see how you defend human trafficking to be acceptable in the bible...this ought to be good

do you consider human rights to be a god given right or a demonic manifestation of humanism ?

 

[waitasec]

RE: go out free, without money sounds as if it will not cost her anything.

He would have no right to sell her to a strange nation [Ex 21v8] because then she could be unprotected by foreigners. He is the one dealing deceitfully with her. She is protected from further harm by him or a foreigner.

Since Exodus 21v10 says another wife [meaning a second wife]
and 'if he will not do unto her'...Deut 21vs15 to 17 shows protection for that hated wife.
Right of his firstborn to her remains intact.

besides, this thread is about how do christians know when god is speaking to them through the bible...

From: THE AMERICAN CHURCHES: THE BULWARKS OF SLAVERY by James Birney, 1840.

Charleston (City) Gazette.—"We protest against the assumption—the unwarrantable assumption—that slavery is ultimately to be extirpated from the Southern States. Ultimate abolitionists are enemies of the South, the same in kind, and only less in degree, than immediate abolitionists."

Washington (City) Telegraph.—"As a man, a Christian, and a citizen, we believe that slavery is right; that the condition of the slave-holding States, is the best existing organization of civil society."

Chancellor Harper, of South Carolina —"It is the order of nature and of GOD, that the being of superior faculties and knowledge, and therefore of superior power, should control and dispose of those who are inferior. It is as much in the order of nature, that men should enslave each other, as that other animals should prey upon each other."

Columbia (S. C.) Telescope.—" Let us declare, through the public journals of our country, that the question of slavery is not, and shall not be open to discussion— that the system is deep-rooted among us, and must remain for ever; that the very moment any private individual attempts to lecture upon its evils and immorality, and the necessity of putting means in operation to secure us from them, in the same moment his tongue shall be cut out and cast upon a dunghill."

these clowns believed slavery was a right
do you?

if not, why?