When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[metis]

I'm not a follower of the Bible, especially Paul, but I have utmost respect for Jesus, and Daniel.

I'm very far from being a scriptural literalist myself, so we're in agreement here. Because of this, I don't think we can ever assume that everything we may read in either testament is 100% accurate, especially since subjectivity goes hand-in-hand with religious writings.

Therefore, I put both testaments roughly on the same level, namely to read what is written and then focus on those teachings which may be useful. Whether a narrative literally happened as written, partially happened as written, or didn't happen as written is of far lesser consequence to me. IOW, my approach is "whatever happened, happened".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Even Australiastan has one (copied from ours).....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia

And they even used to legally defined the Aboriginals as fauna, with it only coming to an end recently enough that is has severely krimped and disrupted their traditional ways of living.

 

[JoStories]

I wasn't predicting the outcome of any hypothetical survey or study, just saying that a well done study of the sort I proposed MIGHT show some advantage to prayer or a strong belief in something

Studies in this topic in nursing have shown that to be the case but again, it is totally in the realm of subjective measurement and not in any way scientifically proven. Again, that is not to say it is not beneficial as it is but one must also consider that atheists also benefit from this, insofar as they use spirituality, which might include walks in nature or reading or whatever they might find of benefit. NONE of these incorporate the concept of God.

 

[JustWondering]

So why would you possibly be opposed to a not more than one page in the biology text book covering the beliefs of well over 50% of our population that a higher power was involved in the creation/evolutionary process presented as one theory, you can even say thoroughly denied by most scientists, why shouldn't people be given choices in what they believe. And you are flat out wrong if you belief you have to have proof to believe in something, that's nonsense,everyone has tonnes of beliefs in things that can not be 100% proven, that's just human nature.

Fair is fair, we also do the reverse. We put scientific theories in all religious texts and demand clergy add science lessons to their sermons.

 

[JustWondering]

icr.org

http://www.hinduism.co.za/hinduism.htm
http://hindutva.info/scientific-hinduism/
http://www.indiadivine.org/hindus-gotra-system-scientific-meaning-of-gotra-in-vedas/
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=202595

Now what?

 

[JustWondering]

We don't have to prove anything, just accept that God exists.

So you are not here to debate but to proselytize?

 

[Revoltingest]

Fair is fair, we also do the reverse. We put scientific theories in all religious texts and demand clergy add science lessons to their sermons.

We'd have to monitor them though.
Preachers are prone to confusing pressure with force, & voltage with current.
They also don't know jack about the relationship between crystal structure & fatigue life of metals.

 

[JustWondering]

We'd have to monitor them though.
Preachers are prone to confusing pressure with force, & voltage with current.
They also don't know jack about the relationship between crystal structure & fatigue life of metals.

On the other hand, if theists got their way and pushed some of their beliefs into classrooms how on board would teachers be to go along with it? Are math and science teachers the best choice for spreading theology?

 

[Revoltingest]

On the other hand, if theists got their way and pushed some of their beliefs into classrooms how on board would teachers be to go along with it? Are math and science teachers the best choice for spreading theology?

Science teachers are notorious for not capitalizing the "B" in "Bible".
We'd have our hands full monitoring people who start lecturing outside their field.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On the other hand, if theists got their way and pushed some of their beliefs into classrooms how on board would teachers be to go along with it? Are math and science teachers the best choice for spreading theology?

My high school AP biology teacher, who was supposed to be teaching a college level biology class, she cut out evolution because it didn't make any sense to her, it was dumb, and it conflicted with her religious beliefs.

 

[JustWondering]

My high school AP biology teacher, who was supposed to be teaching a college level biology class, she cut out evolution because it didn't make any sense to her, it was dumb, and it conflicted with her religious beliefs.

America is going down the drain. Politicians selling out the country to corporate interests, which includes cutting funding to public schools so the rich can have their tax cuts and still have money to drop bombs on civilians half way across the world. Politicians promoting religious related non-issues like making sure gay marriage is banned and transgender people can't use toilets to distract people from real issues and how they're (paid off politicians and the 1%) screwing us over. The people in power in America want the masses to be ignorant, uneducated, and easy to rill up. Because we're easier to exploit that way.

 

[JoStories]

On the other hand, if theists got their way and pushed some of their beliefs into classrooms how on board would teachers be to go along with it? Are math and science teachers the best choice for spreading theology?

That is something I asked many pages ago now. A teacher such as this would be required to at the least, have a masters in theology on top of whatever topic he or she taught in the classroom. It's ludicrous to even consider such a farce. On top of which, religion belongs in the home or church, mosque, temple, etc. Not in school.

 

[Lyndon]

I take my religion with me everywhere I go!!

 

[Revoltingest]

I take my religion with me everywhere I go!!

If ever you change your mind, you could leave it with me for safekeeping.
I'd keep it clean, & would never sabotage it.
(I might put a whoopee cushion in it though.)
You can always trust a landlord.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just to give you an example of a scientific testing of the effects of God, you could poll people diagnosed with cancer, and see if there is any difference in the survival rate for people that are religious or have a lot of friends and relatives praying for them vs, atheist and non believers survival rate. Of course you could claim any benefits for believers was all psychological, and their belief in God tricked them to fight or not fight the cancer, but at least it would give some scientific testing of the benefits or detriments of being a believer or not.

On the efficacy of prayer (admittedly for heart surgery patients, not for cancer patients):

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060403133554.htm

Prayers Don't Help Heart Surgery Patients; Some Fare Worse When Prayed For

[...]

The 1,802 participants were divided into three groups of about 600 each, with a mean age of about 64 years. One group received no prayers. A second group received prayers after being told that they may or may not be prayed for. The third group was informed that others would pray for them for 14 days starting on the night before their surgery.

The prayers came from three Christian groups, two Catholic, and one Protestant. The investigators report that, "We were unable to locate other Christian, Jewish, or non-Christian [groups] that could receive the daily prayer list required for the study." Such lists provided the first name and last initial of the patients.

The intercessors said a standard prayer "for successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications." This system provides a practical way to conduct the experiment, but limits the results to one type of prayer.

There were all kinds of complications from the surgeries, including 197 cardiac complications for the group who knew they were receiving prayers versus 187 and 158 in the other two groups. These and other complications occurred in 59 percent of those who were prayed for, compared to 51 percent of those who received no prayers, and 52 percent in the group who received prayers but didn't know it.

Deaths during the 30 days after surgery were similar across groups, 13 and 16 in the prayed-for, 14 in the no-pray group.

The big unanswered question is why there was an excess of complications in patients who knew all those people were praying for them. The researchers admit they have "no clear explanation." To find out, they say, "will require additional study."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can always trust a landlord.

I bet dollars to donuts that you haven't met some of the landlords I had in university. Some were okay, but there were a couple of very shady characters.

 

[Revoltingest]

I bet dollars to donuts that you haven't met some of the landlords I had in university. Some were okay, but there were a couple of very shady characters.

I'm sure that whatever the problem was, it was entirely your fault.
(Penguins aren't the best of tenants.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm sure that whatever the problem was, it was entirely your fault.
(Penguins aren't the best of tenants.)

Yes - I'm sure that I was the one who arranged it so my bedroom would flood every time it rained. And it was me who made sure that my landlord wouldn't return my voice mails for months to avoid fixing the problem until I got the City involved.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes - I'm sure that I was the one who arranged it so my bedroom would flood every time it rained. And it was me who made sure that my landlord wouldn't return my voice mails for months to avoid fixing the problem until I got the City involved.

It's good that you admit responsibility.
Few tenants ever do.

Speaking of landlord horror stories.....
I once got out of a partnership because the manager they used
didn't believe in changing the locks when tenants moved out.
To me, this is near criminal irresponsibility.
Why, you ask?
Imagine yourself standing in front of a judge who asks......
"So Ms Jones here was raped by a former tenant Bill, who entered the house with his old key?"