When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[RRex]

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Well, once again, I don't want to go through 6 more pages of comments, so once again, some highlights:

The strongest evidence of God's existence is the billions of people that claim to benefit from God's existence, that's pretty scientific.

Subjective, untestable opinions are never "scientific". Evidence must be objective. As a "scientist", you should know this.

We don't have to prove anything, just accept that God exists.

I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Zeus exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Thor exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Odin exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Ra exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Allah exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that The Goddess exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Shiv exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that Xenu exists.
I don't have to prove anything. Just accept that ........

What are you so afraid of, that people might learn about God in school, and make up their own mind and start believing in God, perish the thought, I see you must be afraid, what a catastrophe for the forces of darkness.

That indoctrinated idiots will do things like pray for their children instead of taking them to doctors, fly airplanes into buildings, teach failing "abstinence only" sex ed programs, bring back "crimes" of heresy ...

I don't know if you know this, but most civilized countries, like my country, Australia, teach a world religions course in High school.

There is a difference between indoctrination and education.

Polling peoples opinions is actually a part of science, a lot of scientific studies involve sample interview and polling of people to come to conclusions.

This only holds true; and only to an extent; in the social sciences. No one asked me what I thought about the Theory of General Relativity or if I thought Pluto was a planet. You claim to be a scientist; yet most of what you speak shows that you are not.

Just to give you an example of a scientific testing of the effects of God, you could poll people diagnosed with cancer, and see if there is any difference in the survival rate for people that are religious or have a lot of friends and relatives praying for them vs, atheist and non believers survival rate.

This has already been done; several times, actually. Prayer studies have shown that the effects of people being prayed for vs. those who have not are negligible; and sometimes, those being prayed for actually fare slightly worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's drop this line of....uh....."discussion" before the mods start handing out demerits.
I recommend deleting some posts.....quickly.

 

[metis]

In all fairness I might hate God if God actually was as "he" is described in the Old Testament, but I don't believe in that God, I think he's a figment of the misogynist Jews imagination.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you would write such a thing as you've written even far worse about Jews and Israel many times before.

 

[metis]

So you don't think Jews made up major portions of the Bible???? That Jews are the master race, chosen by God???

I don't know and I doubt it, in that order.

Do you believe Jews made up most that's found in the N.T.? Do you believe Christians formed the newly "chosen by God"? Even hear of the expression "double-standards", Lyndon?

 

[JoStories]

I don't think any experimental evidence could possibly disprove God, because God exists.

I, too, believe in God but I also admit that I have no evidence of God and that it is entirely possible that my beliefs are my own delusions about what I want to believe. It seems fair to me to admit that there is zero evidence of God. I am not sure why you are so adamant that you see God as real. Can you point to something that is 100% proven of God?

 

[JoStories]

I don't know if you know this, but most civilized countries, like my country, Australia, teach a world religions course in High school. America has a stupid constitution, that makes them do some stupid things IMHO. We also have gun control and one of the lowest per capita firearm fatality rates, less than 10% that of the USA I believe, call us primitives.

I see nothing wrong with a world religion course that teaches the rudiments of each and every faith there is. That is vastly different than teaching belief in a God, no matter which one one might name. I am curious what about the US Constitution you find so 'stupid'. Please elaborate on that one. I agree with you about gun control but unfortunately, I am in the minority here. The NRA has far too loud a voice, IMO, in matters of state. I firmly believe that even police at this point should only carry weapons after many hours of teaching, given the recent police problems we have here.

 

[JoStories]

The biggest flaw, it doesn't guarantee basic subsistence living and health care for all citizens, that's what my essay is about, the other issues of what should go into a constitution are not really my field of expertise.

If that is what you see wrong with the Constitution, I totally agree with you. We should have national healthcare and the fact we don't is an embarrassment, IMO. And that children here still go hungry is another thing I hate. The election we have pending is but one example of the things that are beyond wrong here in this country. Trump is a bully and a loud mouthed braggart who would be the worst ever president but Clinton is not that much better. Just marginally better than Trump. So we agree about that part but there are some things in the Constitution that are good, and one has to take those things along with the things that are wrong. Things are changing however. Such as SSM and so on.

 

[Lyndon]

JO STORIES, I don't think its in any way possible to have a sincere belief in God or higher power, and not have personal evidence for that belief, that gives you some amount of faith to believe, what it seems to me you are saying JO is that you don't have any evidence you could explain to anyone else, is that what you mean, otherwise I'm quite confused by your statement.

I have had and still occasionally here God speak to me, as a thought, not a voice, this is very strong evidence to me personally but would probably mean next to nothing to almost anyone else, because it is so unverifiable to anyone else but me.

I also strongly believe in the power of prayer, I pray for protection, guidance, forgiveness, thank God for everything she has done, and ask God to be with me in every way.. I pray that for myself, then I repeat that prayer for all my friends and family, and finally I pray that prayer for all the people and animals of the world, Then I pray for all the people of the world to get along in peace and harmony, especially people in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Africa, Syria, Libya etc. I pray before I sleep even if I'm just napping. And the result, I enjoy praying, it helps me relax to go to sleep, its an integral and irreplaceable part of my life.

I live one the edge financially, I come as close as one week from going broke, and always, through I believe God's blessing of my business I get a sale or repair job, I never have gone broke in over 4 years. If you understood my financial situation, you might almost agree it is miraculous I have never run out of money. Anyway that's just a small part of what I consider my personal evidence for this existence of a higher power.

 

[jeager106]

One wonders what those 76% would do if the Constitution were abolished
today?
Our freedoms likely would not exist as it does.
We likely would not be discussing anything here either.
Would we have the various religions, political processes, care for the
less fortunate, vast melting pot of cultures, .......................................................????

It seems a part of the human condition to take for granted what we have
and not miss it until it's gone.
Perhaps it would be well advised for people to read the Constitution and
Amendments then compare those guarantees to other "free" nations?

 

[Lyndon]

I don't know and I doubt it, in that order.

Do you believe Jews made up most that's found in the N.T.? Do you believe Christians formed the newly "chosen by God"? Even hear of the expression "double-standards", Lyndon?

No I firmly don't believe any race, tribe, country, religion or non religion is any more or less chosen by God

 

[Lyndon]

One wonders what those 76% would do if the Constitution were abolished
today?
Our freedoms likely would not exist as it does.
We likely would not be discussing anything here either.
Would we have the various religions, political processes, care for the
less fortunate, vast melting pot of cultures, .......................................................????

People all over the world in different countries than the USA live perfectly fine without our constitution, they all have their own constitutions, many if not most of them newer, more recent, less primitive in that they never condoned slavery, gun rights, denying women and minorities the right to vote, like our constitution originally did as written, Their constitutions are in many ways better and worse than our present constitution, If our constitution was really that special, countries would be copying it all over the world, its just a template for American style of government, doesn't protect or provide food, lodging or medical care for every citizen, in many more socialized countries those things are practically guaranteed to all citizens.. Americans tend to be very Myopic about their constitution.

 

[Revoltingest]

People all over the world in different countries than the USA live perfectly fine without our constitution, they all have their own constitutions, many if not most of them newer, more recent, less primitive in that they never condoned slavery, gun rights, denying women and minorities the right to vote, like our constitution originally did as written, Their constitutions are in many ways better and worse than our present constitution, If our constitution was really that special, countries would be copying it all over the world, its just a template for American style of government, doesn't protect or provide food, lodging or medical care for every citizen, in many more socialized countries those things are practically guaranteed to all citizens.. Americans tend to be very Myopic about their constitution.

Ferriners are so ignorant about not just our Constitution, but about the function of a constitution in general.
Even Australiastan has one (copied from ours).....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia
It creates the fundamentals for the laws of the land.
Generally, all laws must be both authorized by & limited by them.
Government aparatchiks & leaders should not be allowed to unilaterally violate it, ie, by fiat.
Otherwise, they seize too much power.

Tis myopia to believe that government can ignore a constitution, just because one likes what it will do at the moment.
This usurping power would endure, & government can then do evil things which one hadn't imagined.

 

[jeager106]

fiat:
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=...client97_searchbox&enabled_terms=&s_it=rs-bot

 

[Lyndon]

fiat:
http://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=...client97_searchbox&enabled_terms=&s_it=rs-bot

My first three cars were Fiats, back in the early 80s, even had for a short time a shiny red 124 sports car before I wrecked it missing a corner because the head lights were pointing down too much!! Driving that sports car to the tennis courts was the only time I ever saw women checking me out because of my car!! Now I strictly drive Volvos, currently a pretty nice 26 year old vintage 240 with 300,000 on the original engine and trans, the secret to owning a vintage Volvo is a great mechanic you can trust....

 

[metis]

No I firmly don't believe any race, tribe, country, religion or non religion is any more or less chosen by God

But that's not what the N.T. states.

 

[JoStories]

Just to give you an example of a scientific testing of the effects of God, you could poll people diagnosed with cancer, and see if there is any difference in the survival rate for people that are religious or have a lot of friends and relatives praying for them vs, atheist and non believers survival rate. Of course you could claim any benefits for believers was all psychological, and their belief in God tricked them to fight or not fight the cancer, but at least it would give some scientific testing of the benefits or detriments of being a believer or not.

You are correct that spirituality is a benefit in healthcare. Nursing's new paradigm's now incorporate spirituality as an integral part of that whole. That being said however, as a nurse with over 40 years experience in critical care, I can also report that by and large those who refuse to let loved ones pass quietly with appropriate pain control are Christian. And btw sir, I have done several studies of spirituality and religion in healthcare and all of it is anecdotal. Literally. One cannot measure for these types of studies that are quantitative. By its nature, it is always qualitative. The two are vastly different when it comes to validity and reliability. There is no way to accurately measure for psychological variables. Some scientists tried years ago but most of those studies were at best, unethical.

 

[JoStories]

One of the studies showed that knowledge of prayer resulted in serious complications in 59% of the people vs. only 51% in those who were either not prayed for or were prayed for without their knowledge.

Just sayin'. I saw another study where it suggested people who are waiting for God to save them may "give up" more and have less tendency to fight for life.

So this idea that it may not hurt anything may just not be true.

This has not been my experience Demon. In fact, quite the opposite. Those with families who are deeply religious tend to not let loved ones die, even when their suffering is so profound as to make doctors tell us to do what is called a 'slow code' meaning we walk VERY slowly to resuscitate the patient.

 

[Lyndon]

But that's not what the N.T. states.

I'm not a follower of the Bible, especially Paul, but I have utmost respect for Jesus, and Daniel.

 

[Lyndon]

You are correct that spirituality is a benefit in healthcare. Nursing's new paradigm's now incorporate spirituality as an integral part of that whole. That being said however, as a nurse with over 40 years experience in critical care, I can also report that by and large those who refuse to let loved ones pass quietly with appropriate pain control are Christian. And btw sir, I have done several studies of spirituality and religion in healthcare and all of it is anecdotal. Literally. One cannot measure for these types of studies that are quantitative. By its nature, it is always qualitative. The two are vastly different when it comes to validity and reliability. There is no way to accurately measure for psychological variables. Some scientists tried years ago but most of those studies were at best, unethical.

I wasn't predicting the outcome of any hypothetical survey or study, just saying that a well done study of the sort I proposed MIGHT show some advantage to prayer or a strong belief in something