When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution

[SkepticThinker]

Why should they be forced to be 'respectfully quiet'? This seems to intimate that such prayer is allowed. I strongly disagree with such a stance. Would you be fine with having to be 'respectfully quiet' while a satanic prayer is prayed or a Jain prayer or a Roscicrucian prayer or an atheist proclamation? If we were to allow ALL faiths to have a prayer led session, children would not learn a thing in school save the prayer led sessions and given that children under the age of abstract thought can even understand such a concept, it would seem a massive waste or precious time.

Reading through all these posts, I'm starting to wonder when the actual learning is going to take place in these schools. What with all these moments of silence and prayers going on.

Is it not enough that people receive religious instruction at their religious institutions?

 

[SkepticThinker]

The resulting argument against "intent" is simply that students ought to be able to pray if they wish to. If they don't want to then they should respect the rights of those who do wish to. See how that works?

Who is stopping people from praying on their own, any time they feel like it?


Nobody.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We should note that the Constitution spells out procedures to amend it.
But what about the Bible? It's supposed to be inerrant, so it never needs
amending. People end up actually believing the Earth is 6000 years old
because it cannot accommodate scientific progress.
About all people can do to cope is decide that it's "poetic".

Yes, exactly.

There's a significant difference between the two documents.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Public schools shouldn't be Islamic or Christian or whatever. But they should respect students' rights to be religious if they want to be.

They do. They just can't legally promote religion or lead religious activities. There are no laws saying you cannot wear religious garb or symbols or that you cannot pray in school. Rather, the law is very clear that these things are permitted.

 

[McBell]

Laws prohibiting religion or the practice thereof are illegal.

This is simply not true.

Let's just leave it at that, shall we?

we can leave it at that, but it is still flat out not true.

 

[McBell]

The resulting argument against "intent" is simply that students ought to be able to pray if they wish to. If they don't want to then they should respect the rights of those who do wish to. See how that works?

and what does this have to do with school sponsored prayer?

 

[Skwim]

Yes, it can. The SCOTUS can have a similar case before it and rule totally opposite the way they did before, saying the previous ruling was in fact unconstitutional.

See post 65.


.

 

[Demonslayer]

Is it not enough that people receive religious instruction at their religious institutions?

From my experience, it's never, ever enough. The religious students may wear their religious garb to school, pray silently all day long if they choose, organize prayer groups at lunch, free periods and after school, and doodle pictures of Jesus on their book covers.

But unless we force all the unwilling students to "sit there quietly" observing an officially sanctioned prayer session during class time, the religious folks are being persecuted.

 

[crossfire]

Yes, that can be true, but even that can be challenged in terms of what is the intent of those calling for such a moment of silence?

Well let's see--the actual outcome of a moment of silence is having pure freedom of thought without having to multitask or worry about anyone (except maybe a baby) interrupting you or distracting you from your allotted time of free thought.

 

[First Baseman]

This is simply not true.


we can leave it at that, but it is still flat out not true.

Wrong on all counts.

 

[First Baseman]

and what does this have to do with school sponsored prayer?

Nothing.

 

[SkepticThinker]

From my experience, it's never, ever enough. The religious students may wear their religious garb to school, pray silently all day long if they choose, organize prayer groups at lunch, free periods and after school, and doodle pictures of Jesus on their book covers.

But unless we force all the unwilling students to "sit there quietly" observing an officially sanctioned prayer session during class time, the religious folks are being persecuted.

Unfortunately, that sounds about right. Good grief.

 

[First Baseman]

See post 65.


.

Yeah, so?

 

[McBell]

Wrong on all counts.

Perhaps where you live, but here in the real world, in the USA, it is you are just plain flat out wrong.

 

[First Baseman]

From my experience, it's never, ever enough. The religious students may wear their religious garb to school, pray silently all day long if they choose, organize prayer groups at lunch, free periods and after school, and doodle pictures of Jesus on their book covers.

But unless we force all the unwilling students to "sit there quietly" observing an officially sanctioned prayer session during class time, the religious folks are being persecuted.

No, not necessarily. Those students get the pleasure of knowing that they are respecting the rights of those around them. That is a good lesson, I think. The way it is now it looks like the Constitution is against religion when the Constitution actually forbids laws against religion.

 

[First Baseman]

Perhaps where you live, but here in the real world, in the USA, it is you are just plain flat out wrong.

You can't help it if you have a bias against religious people. I understand.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Why should they be forced to be 'respectfully quiet'? This seems to intimate that such prayer is allowed. I strongly disagree with such a stance. Would you be fine with having to be 'respectfully quiet' while a satanic prayer is prayed or a Jain prayer or a Roscicrucian prayer or an atheist proclamation? If we were to allow ALL faiths to have a prayer led session, children would not learn a thing in school save the prayer led sessions and given that children under the age of abstract thought can even understand such a concept, it would seem a massive waste or precious time.

When did I say all faiths should be allowed a prayer led session at school?

 

[McBell]

You can't help it if you have a bias against religious people. I understand.

Wrong again.

I have a bias against people who are wrong jumping up and down with their fingers in their ears screaming about how they are right.
That you also happen to be a theist has nothing to do with it.

Now you are free to try and play the martyr to your hearts content.
Just know that it only makes you look even worse than you already do.

 

[First Baseman]

Wrong again.

I have a bias against people who are wrong jumping up and down with their fingers in their ears screaming about how they are right.
That you also happen to be a theist has nothing to do with it.

Now you are free to try and play the martyr to your hearts content.
Just know that it only makes you look even worse than you already do.

Yep. You're biased. Probably due to your local school system discrediting religion. Point made. Thanks.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You think so?

Allah in the Cafeteria: Inside the school prayer scandal at Valley Park Middle School

That is unfortunate, and an issue of mass immigration, which we shouldn't compromise our own values for.