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When it comes to Prayer 76% of Americans Don't Give a **** About the Constitution
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Skwim
Veteran Member
Stop setting yourself up for a graceful exit and show some backbone. We address challenges in the order they're made. So . . .
You claimed without qualification that "the existence of God is not non science at all," or in other words, "the existence of God is science." So, show us the science and stop the tap dancing.
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Now that you've established the science of godology,
how do you determine the number of gods, & which
ones are cromulent, & which are bogus?
This is the kind of question I ask when I have a wee bit'o
Maker's Mark before nodding off.
Proving the existence of God scientifically would be up to the scientists that find a way to test for God's existence, show scientific surveys of the relative success of people who pray to God vs those who don't, etc etc. SInce I am by no means qualified to do that kind of research its up to the scientists to prove God's existence, it may take ten years, it may take 1000 years, but trust me, sooner or later we will have proof that higher powers exist and have influence over us. Then you all can quietly eat your humble pie!!
Skwim
Veteran Member
Sorry, but I'll need more than just your say-so. Would you trust me if I said we will never have proof that higher powers exist and have influence over us?
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No, but then you've never encouraged me to trust your judgement!!
How would you scientifically discern this from the observed phenomenon of once a certain percentage of a given population (of monkeys, or whatnot) learn a skill, then the entire population knows it? Prayer may be a way of plugging into this unconscious communal consciousness, and individuals unconsciously doing things on the communal "to do" list?
serp777
Well-Known Member
These people don't care about the constitution. They probably haven't even read the constitution. They constantly say stuff like "herp derp this is a Christian nation and our founding fathers put the ten commandments into our laws." These people would love a theocracy. These are probably the most dangerous threats to the seperation between church and state and the stability of the country.
Then you have two options. Gather enough signatures to place this vote on the ballot, either state or federal or simply put up with it. And if you agree to have prayer in schools, you realize you must have prayers for all faiths, no? Or are you willing to have your children led through Muslim prayers?
Two of my grandchildren are educated internationally and both speak at least three languages fluently. They can do math without a smartphone and read the classics regularly. That has nothing to do with the Bible or the lack thereof. You seem to think I am against the Bible for some reason. Where did I say it was not a note worthy piece of literature? Just because I don't believe it is the word of God does not mean the book does not have worth. And keep in mind that I have an advanced degree in theology here. And btw, my 'kids' are highly educated. My son is a diplomat to Russia and my daughter is a stay at home mom in an age where that has lost favor. Your anger seems to be getting the better of you friend.
I think its just one of those issues that really gets to some people. I don't see why exactly as, IMO, religion has no place in learning and belongs in the home. I try to see other people's POV but often they let anger cloud their vision to the point that dialogue is futile.
Now you sound like a petulant child here. No one is trying to persecute you nor restrict the expression of your faith. What is being said is that you cannot have your faith in school without also making sure you have all faiths represented. Perhaps if you stepped back a moment and tried to see other's sides, your argument might be better heard.
Agreed of course. And the other thing, which is not part of this thread, but I feel that if a child is not keeping their grades up they should not be allowed to participate in sports or other activities. School is for learning, period.
Ah but I am Buddhist so I would require that my children have Buddhist led prayer. I am going to refuse you the right to force my children to be subjected to your version of prayer.
No, they are not. Not to the parents of Muslim children or Buddhist children, etc. It is a mountain and like it or not, you have no right to force my children to endure your prayers.
It certainly did in the eyes of my father. He fought like hell to get me out of having to endure prayer as he was a lifelong atheist and saw no reason for me to be subjected to this. For him, it was a negative effect.
The same could be said to you friend. When you can prove God created the earth, etc, then we can talk but without direct proof, you have not one leg to stand on.
No, what SCOTUS does on a regular basis is interpret the law so that YOU can't impede the practice of religion of others.
And it does this to protect YOUR rights.
The US government has no way to prevent, for instance, your children from having to participate in officially sanctioned Muslim prayer in a public school except by saying "no officially sanctioned prayers in public school."
As a Catholic, you ought to have a better sense of history. There are many parts of your country that traditionally had (and continue to have) extreme prejudice against your denomination. The same clauses of the Constitution that limit your ability to impose your religion on others also protect you from others imposing their religion on you.
Canada has no official separation of church and state. Historically, this created an awful situation for religious minorities. Here in Ontario, it was effectively impossible for a Catholic to be elected to office; the Orange Lodge held an extraordinary degree of power over the Ontario legislature right into the early 20th Century. Our public schools were religious and the Protestant teachers and administrators used their positions to be so anti-Catholic that the Catholics formed their own separate system of school boards to get away from it.
THAT is the sort of situation that you get without the protections of church-state separation.
Remember that not all religious expression is friendly to you or your beliefs. Some of it is downright hostile. So you can't impose your beliefs on other people? Too bad... and it's short-sighted to wish that the law be changed to allow it. Remember that the wall of separation of church and state protects you, too.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
No, it's up to those trying to convince others that God exists because that's how logic & reason work. The person making a claim of empirical existence provides the evidence to back up that claim.
Admitting that you're not capable of providing that evidence does not mean you can pass the buck on to anyone else. All it means is that you confess to making claims you can't back up with evidence which can resultingly be dismissed without evidence.
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Demonslayer
Well-Known Member
A Bunsen burner and some chemicals. Not sure what to do next but I know we need these things to start our God test.