When will we acknowledge sexism and violence against men is just as real?

[Debater Slayer]

Just shows my ignorance of how women feminists hate men,... I don't even know half of these sayings. Now I see why there are men who argue with feminists all the time.

I must have missed something, then, because I often find that feminist women treat and talk about men who respect them with respect. Have you considered that maybe the reason feminists argue with you is that your views about them are insulting and infantilizing?

 

[Sunstone]

I hope more people realize that women have feelings and autonomous intellects, just like them.

"Feelings"? "Autonomous intellects"? That's hateful and divisive feminist language, DS. I'm shocked!

 

[Revoltingest]

I suppose we could equally say ''Dead women can't be raped''. Now that'll go down well. Just as offensive though. Iguess men must have the word 'doormat' written on the forehead.

I don't put up such double standard crap. But I find it illuminating that when the issue of the anarcho-feminist flag slogan of "Dead Men Don't Rape" was raised, there wasn't a single feminist who decried it. This is tacit approval of the misandrist elements among the various feminist cultures.

 

[Revoltingest]

The thing is, it is hard to feel sorry for someone who thinks you're better off dead.

This illustrates why so many men & women will support feminism (& be feminists) as a philosophy & a political goal, but won't identify as a "feminist". But as we hear in so many threads, they shouldn't have to moderate their language to avoid polarization & rancor. They even mock the notion that it matters how non-feminists react to things like "Dead Men Don't Rape". They should consider....if they've no concern for how we view them, & neither do they respect us, then why should we care in the least about them?

They complain about not being heard.
To be heard, one must also listen.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just shows my ignorance of how women feminists hate men,... I don't even know half of these sayings. Now I see why there are men who argue with feminists all the time.

So many of them are quick to notice (& imagine) slights against them, but are the first to do exactly the same thing they decry.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just shows my ignorance of how women feminists hate men,... I don't even know half of these sayings. Now I see why there are men who argue with feminists all the time.

I advise less general language. Only some feminists are misandrists. I'd say the majority are on our side (just as we're on theirs). So we should be careful to not use too broad a brush.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Male gaze" refers to the cultural tendency to view a lot of subjects, even in the entertainment industry, primarily from a male perspective (see also: Bechdel test). I haven't noticed a similar tendency to view different subjects from a female perspective only.
I don't think pointing that out using the term "male gaze" is rude for women or men.

The "female gaze" exists too. We see it in movies with gratuitous drama, lithe young well coiffed men, themes of female empowerment against the patriarchy, etc, etc. One genre is commonly called the "chick flick".
A wonderful (& positive) example of the "female gaze" is the movie "Aliens".

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It is true, the Female Gaze does exist in literature and in film. It's not as prevalent as the Male Gaze, however.

One is trying to have it both ways by saying that the "Male Gaze" is an attack but also brazenly declare that this is a "Man's World." Women are not considered as even a part of this world at all, according to that statement.

Any egalitarians up to the task of challenging that language?

 

[Debater Slayer]

The "female gaze" exists too. We see it in movies with gratuitous drama, lithe young well coiffed men, themes of female empowerment against the patriarchy, etc, etc. One genre is commonly called the "chick flick".
A wonderful (& positive) example of the "female gaze" is the movie "Aliens".

I would argue that the number of movies, books, video games, etc., that only show a female perspective is most likely only a fraction of their male-centered counterparts. Someone here even mentioned that fact, albeit from his viewpoint that it is a positive thing, when he asserted that this is a "man's world."

 

[Smart_Guy]

Dunno what that gaze thing is, but when women look at me it scares me

Is it like a petrification gaze?

 

[Revoltingest]

I would argue that the number of movies, books, video games, etc., that only show a female perspective is most likely only a fraction of their male-centered counterparts. Someone here even mentioned that fact, albeit from his viewpoint that it is a positive thing, when he asserted that this is a "man's world."

Just as the "male gaze" has raised consciousness about the pervasiveness of movies catering to men, the "female gaze" is there to be seen by all with an open mind. Chick flicks, bodice rippers, talk shows (eg, The View) are among the many examples. There is also the "boy gaze", the "girl gaze", the "Xian gaze", the "nerd gaze", etc, etc. We are fortunate indeed to have this plethora of perspectives.

 

[Sunstone]

It is true, the Female Gaze does exist in literature and in film. It's not as prevalent as the Male Gaze, however.

One is trying to have it both ways by saying that the "Male Gaze" is an attack but also brazenly declare that this is a "Man's World." Women are not considered as even a part of this world at all, according to that statement.

Any egalitarians up to the task of challenging that language?

It's easy enough to challenge the language, but challenging the lack of fair minded realism behind the language tis another matter.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Just as the "male gaze" has raised consciousness about the pervasiveness of movies catering to men, the "female gaze" is there to be seen by all with an open mind. Chick flicks, bodice rippers, talk shows (eg, The View) are among the many examples. There is also the "boy gaze", the "girl gaze", the "Xian gaze", the "nerd gaze", etc, etc. We are fortunate indeed to have this plethora of perspectives.

How common are any of the "gazes" you listed compared to the male one? I would say the latter still predominates over all of them.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I advise less general language. Only some feminists are misandrists. I'd say the majority are on our side (just as we're on theirs). So we should be careful to not use too broad a brush.

Such wise words from a man with half his arm stuck down a toilet
There is always both ends of the wedge Willy, the thin sharp end and thick end that follows it. Somebody has to do the dirty work, but no one complains. Don't see a lot of difference myself, though I take your point. I think there has been an adaption now with feministic women as men see the doormat mentality too much.
I guess as a species, if I can call men a species, we must be pretty dumb to give away so much power to someone who is going to hit you over the head with it. I wonder if they would have done the same for us?

 

[Revoltingest]

How common are any of the "gazes" you listed compared to the male one? I would say the latter still predominates over all of them.

I don't quantify them. But it's important to raise consciousness about the influence that women & other groups have in the media. To proffer only the "male gaze" seems rooted in a myopic sense of victimhood.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why am I not surprised?

Because you recognize my brilliance too?

 

[Robert.Evans]

It is true, the Female Gaze does exist in literature and in film. It's not as prevalent as the Male Gaze, however.

One is trying to have it both ways by saying that the "Male Gaze" is an attack but also brazenly declare that this is a "Man's World." Women are not considered as even a part of this world at all, according to that statement.

Any egalitarians up to the task of challenging that language?

I am always puzzled when I hear people say, ''What about my rights?'' It seems a strange thing to say. It seems to me, the only reason men and women need rights, is because something is wrong in the first place. Sort out what is wrong, and then you won't need rights.
It is about considering others.
Yes of course we have to have some sort of roles in place to do this, some sort of plan; as there might well be a woman out there daft enough to want to dig a ditch in the pouring rain... I just haven't met her. But it is doubtful if there is.

So I don't see rights as such. I see the lack of ''doing'' what is right, which means we have to have rights in the first place.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't quantify them. But it's important to raise consciousness about the influence that women & other groups have in the media. To proffer only the "male gaze" seems rooted in a myopic sense of victimhood.

It seems to me that this is another variation of the "feminists don't care about any issues other than women's rights" argument. Well, what other group is expected to speak out against every injustice on the planet just because it is primarily concerned with a specific form of injustice?

Feminists don't have to address all issues with equal focus. If you would like to speak out against misandry or racism, by all means join movements that are focused on those issues. Criticizing feminists for focusing on women's rights strikes me as inconsistent at best.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Just as the "male gaze" has raised consciousness about the pervasiveness of movies catering to men, the "female gaze" is there to be seen by all with an open mind. Chick flicks, bodice rippers, talk shows (eg, The View) are among the many examples. There is also the "boy gaze", the "girl gaze", the "Xian gaze", the "nerd gaze", etc, etc. We are fortunate indeed to have this plethora of perspectives.

The thing is, no one makes films for women until women decide that is what they want, and then you have a market. So it would be the way it was as everyone was happy with the male hero saving the beautiful woman.

Here is something funny you will have noticed if you are old enough: the old black and white films would have the offended woman who would slap the man. Then came in the man who would grab her hand. Then came the woman that would slap him but the man would slap her back. Now you see women shot in films, something you would not have seen at one time. The thing is, when you pick up a coin, you have both sides, head and tail. So part of the power women have attained will be counteracted by men, and always will be by some.

 

[Robert.Evans]

It's easy enough to challenge the language, but challenging the lack of fair minded realism behind the language tis another matter.

Are you siding with women here?