Where are the Dead?

[Trailblazer]

There is also the Christian belief in the rapture of the Christian Church, where Jesus allegedly returns for his followers and descends from the sky with the loud sound of a trumpet. According to this particular belief, all the Christians who are dead will be raised first from their graves to meet Jesus in the air, and all the Christians who are still alive will be raptured "in the twinkling of an eye" and will also meet him in the air. However, the "elephant in the room" problem with this belief is that Christians can't ever agree on when this alleged rapture of the church is supposed to take place. Some Christians claim that it will happen pre-tribulation; other Christians claim it will happen mid-tribulation; and yet other Christians claim it will happen post-tribulation. The only thing they seem to have in common is that they believe God will bring about some terrible tribulation in the world and that Christians won't be around to experience it. Have you ever read or heard of the Left Behind books? The story is centered around the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church.

Some of the Christians in my GriefShare group did mention the rapture/being raptured, but I don't know which rapture belief they held. The context was that they would not mind being raptured right now in order to be back with their loved one, so that must mean that they believe that their loved one is in heaven. To be honest, i don't know if they know what they believe. I think they only believe what they have been taught by their churches and they haven't really given it much thought on their own.

No, I never read the Left Behind books, but what kind of a 'loving God' would leave people behind? That is yet another inconsistency with Christian beliefs.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Some of the Christians in my GriefShare group did mention the rapture/being raptured, but I don't know which rapture belief they held. The context was that they would not mind being raptured right now in order to be back with their loved one, so that must mean that they believe that their loved one is in heaven. To be honest, i don't know if they know what they believe. I think they only believe what they have been taught by their churches and they haven't really given it much thought on their own.

I've spoken with both living and dead Christians who believed that they would see their loved ones again in heaven. Many of them were taught that their loved ones or a loved one would meet them as they entered a bright, white light that would usher them into the spirit realm. And while I believe that there is some validity to the white light based on what I've heard from the spirits that I've assisted in crossing over, none of them have either told me or acted as though they could see their loved ones waiting for them there. However, these spirits told me that they saw a bright, white light and they felt drawn to it.

No, I never read the Left Behind books, but what kind of a 'loving God' would leave people behind? That is yet another inconsistency with Christian beliefs.

I read this book series when I was still an evangelical Christian because I was taught in church to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. In fact, I still own the books. Of course, I don't believe in any of that now. And I agree with your final sentiment about a 'loving God' leaving people behind. I was taught that the tribulation was God punishing the world and that the anti-Christ would rise to power during it. I was also told about the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, you are referring to your personal beliefs and preferred interpretation of the Bible. You appear to have difficulty accepting the fact that not everyone, including other Christians, shares your personal beliefs about the afterlife or agrees with your personal interpretation of the Bible.

Yes, again, Not everyone shares my beliefs, etc.
That does Not make my beliefs as wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, again, Not everyone shares my beliefs, etc.
That does Not make my beliefs as wrong.

Nor does it make your beliefs right and theirs wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.........No, I never read the Left Behind books, but what kind of a 'loving God' would leave people behind? That is yet another inconsistency with Christian beliefs.

I don't find the 'left behind ' is with all Christian beliefs.
In Noah's day those violent people were ' left behind ', so to speak, but they chose Not to enter the Ark.
In the year 70 those un-faithful Jews were ' left behind ' when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman armies because they did Not listen to Jesus.
So, the biblical pattern is set that the faithful will be saved right here on Earth. No leaving of the faithful from Earth.
The faithful will be saved ( delvered / resuced ) right here on Earth - Isaiah 26:20

 

[Trailblazer]

So, the biblical pattern is set that the faithful will be saved right here on Earth. No leaving of the faithful from Earth.

So there are none of the faithful in heaven?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course, I never met John, so I can only speculate about his spiritual beliefs based on his writings, such as his song Imagine, but that doesn't mean that his beliefs didn't change after he penned Imagine. For the record, you aren't the first person to mention John or the other Beatles in response to my post.

Quite by accident I heard John Lennon's last radio broadcast.
I found it so interesting that when I had the chance to listen again I did.
To me John was expressing spiritual beliefs, and to me it was sounding as if John was leaning toward Scripture.
Anyway, I am looking forward to meeting John during Resurrection Day ( Jesus' 1,000 year day governing over Earth )
( P.S. While visiting the Mayor's daughter I was one of the first persons to see a fax picture sent here from England with John and Yoko.
I never heard of a fax machine before yet to see one operate )

 

[Trailblazer]

The faithful will be saved ( delvered / resuced ) right here on Earth - Isaiah 26:20

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

I do not know how you get "The faithful will be saved ( delivered / rescued ) right here on Earth" from that verse above.

​

Isaiah 26:20 MEANING​

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers.--The vision of the judgments and the glory of the future leads the prophet to his work as a preacher of repentance in the present. His people also need the preparation of silent and solitary prayer (Matthew 6:6; Psalm 27:5; Psalm 31:21
PSALMS 31:21 KJV Blessed be the LORD: for he hath shewed me his marvellous kindness in a strong city.
). As men seek the innermost recesses of their homes while the thunderstorm sweeps over the city, so should they seek God in that solitude till the great tempest of His indignation has passed by.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 20. - Come, my people... into thy chambers. As when a storm comes, prudence counsels men to seek shelter (Exodus 9:19), so now the prophet advises his people to put themselves under cover during the coming tempest. His meaning, probably, is that they should retire into the privacy of communion with God, withdrawing from public affairs and the distractions of a worldly life. Shut thy doors about thee (comp. 2 Kings 4:33; Matthew 6:6). For a little moment (so in Isaiah 10:25; and again in Isaiah 54:7, 8
ISAIAH 54:7 KJV For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
). God's estimate of time, we must remember, is not as man's (Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8).

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
26:20,21 When dangers threaten, it is good to retire and lie hid; when we commend ourselves to God to hide us, he will hide us either under heaven or in heaven. Thus we shall be safe and happy in the midst of tribulations. It is but for a short time, as it were for a little moment; when over, it will seem as nothing. God's place is the mercy-seat; there he delights to be: when he punishes, he comes out of his place, for he has no pleasure in the death of sinners. But there is hardly any truth more frequently repeated in Scripture, than God's determined purpose to punish the workers of iniquity. Let us keep close to the Lord, and separate from the world; and let us seek comfort in secret prayer. A day of vengeance is coming on the world, and before it comes we are to expect tribulation and suffering. But because the Christian looks for these things, shall he be restless and dismayed? No, let him repose himself in his God. Abiding in him, the believer is safe. And let us wait patiently the fulfilling of God's promises.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers,.... These words are either to be connected with the preceding verse Isaiah 26:19, and considered as a part of the song; and then the design of them is, to let the people of God know that there would be times of great trouble and distress, previous to that glorious one before mentioned; whether it is to be understood of a spiritual resurrection, the conversion of Jews and Gentiles in the latter day, which the judgments on antichrist will antecede, Revelation 19:2 or of the first resurrection, upon the coming of Christ, Daniel 12:1 and therefore should expect such a time of trouble, and concern themselves for shelter and security: or else, the song being finished, as is generally thought;

ISAIAH 26:20 MEANING

Isaiah 26:20 MEANING and KJV Bible commentary. What is the meaning of Isaiah 26:20?

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So there are none of the faithful in heaven?

No one who died before Jesus died was offered heaven -- Matthew 11:11; Acts 2:34; John 3:13; Hebrews 11:13,39
The people who are in heaven are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection mentioned at Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10.
These people fit the description found at Luke 22:28-30. They are like the ones mentioned at Daniel 7:18.
They are the smaller or 'little flock' of followers. The majority are part of the ' other sheep' - Luke 12:32; John 10:16

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Isaiah 26:20 compares to Genesis 7:15 ( Noah and the Ark )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Exodus 12:22-23 ( blood on the door frame )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Psalm 27:5 ( sheltered on the day of calamity aka Armageddon )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Psalm 91:4 ( protected by God's wings like a protecting wall )

No leaving off Earth to be saved delivered rescued

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why should I read Bible rather than a wikipedia article - Death - Wikipedia
Hindu religious books also have a vast information on death,................

The Bible is a religious book (Not Wikipedia) and Jesus believed that Scripture is: religious truth - John 17:17
Jesus' view of death came from the Greatest Teacher ( aka his Heavenly Father )
In other words, pre-human heavenly Jesus was educated ( Not by any university ) but by God Himself.
Read the Bible to see for one's self what Jesus taught and why.
Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death - John 11:12-14
Why? because the old Hebrew Scriptures also teach 'sleep' in death - Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

I do not know how you get "The faithful will be saved ( delivered / rescued ) right here on Earth" from that verse above.

​

Isaiah 26:20 MEANING​

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers.--The vision of the judgments and the glory of the future leads the prophet to his work as a preacher of repentance in the present. His people also need the preparation of silent and solitary prayer (Matthew 6:6; Psalm 27:5; Psalm 31:21
PSALMS 31:21 KJV Blessed be the LORD: for he hath shewed me his marvellous kindness in a strong city.
). As men seek the innermost recesses of their homes while the thunderstorm sweeps over the city, so should they seek God in that solitude till the great tempest of His indignation has passed by.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 20. - Come, my people... into thy chambers. As when a storm comes, prudence counsels men to seek shelter (Exodus 9:19), so now the prophet advises his people to put themselves under cover during the coming tempest. His meaning, probably, is that they should retire into the privacy of communion with God, withdrawing from public affairs and the distractions of a worldly life. Shut thy doors about thee (comp. 2 Kings 4:33; Matthew 6:6). For a little moment (so in Isaiah 10:25; and again in Isaiah 54:7, 8
ISAIAH 54:7 KJV For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
). God's estimate of time, we must remember, is not as man's (Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8).

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
26:20,21 When dangers threaten, it is good to retire and lie hid; when we commend ourselves to God to hide us, he will hide us either under heaven or in heaven. Thus we shall be safe and happy in the midst of tribulations. It is but for a short time, as it were for a little moment; when over, it will seem as nothing. God's place is the mercy-seat; there he delights to be: when he punishes, he comes out of his place, for he has no pleasure in the death of sinners. But there is hardly any truth more frequently repeated in Scripture, than God's determined purpose to punish the workers of iniquity. Let us keep close to the Lord, and separate from the world; and let us seek comfort in secret prayer. A day of vengeance is coming on the world, and before it comes we are to expect tribulation and suffering. But because the Christian looks for these things, shall he be restless and dismayed? No, let him repose himself in his God. Abiding in him, the believer is safe. And let us wait patiently the fulfilling of God's promises.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers,.... These words are either to be connected with the preceding verse Isaiah 26:19, and considered as a part of the song; and then the design of them is, to let the people of God know that there would be times of great trouble and distress, previous to that glorious one before mentioned; whether it is to be understood of a spiritual resurrection, the conversion of Jews and Gentiles in the latter day, which the judgments on antichrist will antecede, Revelation 19:2 or of the first resurrection, upon the coming of Christ, Daniel 12:1 and therefore should expect such a time of trouble, and concern themselves for shelter and security: or else, the song being finished, as is generally thought;

ISAIAH 26:20 MEANING

Isaiah 26:20 MEANING and KJV Bible commentary. What is the meaning of Isaiah 26:20?

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Informative.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that the dead (believers and unbelievers) are asleep in their graves awaiting judgment?

First, reconciled that both the righteous and unrighteous (just and unjust KJV) will be (future) resurrected - Acts 24:15
'Death' is what stamps the full asking price tag of sin as Paid In Full according to Romans 6:23,7
Thus, a person will be judged on what they do ' after ' they are resurrected.
The righteous will have a favorable judgement and to choose to remain righteous.
The unrighteous will also have a favorable judgement if they choose righteousness.
Only the 'wicked' will have the adverse judgement of being 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 37:38; 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Informative.

Please see previous post number 200

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

So there are none of the faithful in heaven?

Some Christians believe that there are dead Christians in heaven right now. Some Christians believe that dead Christians are sleeping in their graves until Jesus returns to earth for his followers, and then all Christians (both dead and alive) will meet him in the air and they will all float up to heaven together.

Meanwhile, there are also Christians who are secret spiritualists and believe that there are earthbound human spirits. In my opinion, it's no wonder to me why Christians disagree with each other about what will happen to them and to others in the afterlife and that they are seemingly confused about it.

 

[F1fan]

The Bible is a religious book (Not Wikipedia) and Jesus believed that Scripture is: religious truth - John 17:17

Jesus is part of the Bible, so not a valid endorsement.

Jesus' view of death came from the Greatest Teacher ( aka his Heavenly Father )

This isn't factual.

In other words, pre-human heavenly Jesus was educated ( Not by any university ) but by God Himself.

This isn't factual, either.

Read the Bible to see for one's self what Jesus taught and why.

Why assume it's true?

Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death - John 11:12-14
Why? because the old Hebrew Scriptures also teach 'sleep' in death - Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5

It's not accurate or factual.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some Christians believe that there are dead Christians in heaven right now. Some Christians believe that dead Christians are sleeping in their graves until Jesus returns to earth for his followers, and then all Christians (both dead and alive) will meet him in the air and they will all float up to heaven together. Meanwhile, there are also Christians who are secret spiritualists and believe that there are earthbound human spirits. In my opinion, it's no wonder to me why Christians disagree with each other about what will happen to them and to others in the afterlife and that they are seemingly confused about it.

and they all think that they are right and the others are wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

Isaiah 26:20 compares to Genesis 7:15 ( Noah and the Ark )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Exodus 12:22-23 ( blood on the door frame )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Psalm 27:5 ( sheltered on the day of calamity aka Armageddon )
Isaiah 26:20 compares to Psalm 91:4 ( protected by God's wings like a protecting wall )

Who says that these verses you cited compare to Isaiah 26:20?

No leaving off Earth to be saved delivered rescued

What does that even mean?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Please see previous post number 200

I've read your post, and I disagree with your personal interpretation of the Bible as well as your beliefs about the afterlife.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you are going to say what the Bible says, you need to know what the Bible says. Not what various people believe about what the Bible says.
If you don't know what the Bible says, but repeat what you hear people say, it's like someone hearing a report, and repeating it to someone as a fact.
I don't need to tell you what's the term for such persons, but we don't want to be like that, do we.


We are talking about your statement "What is written in scriptures does not correspond with what we see in the world.". Not Hindu beliefs.
Was it just meant to be a Bible basher, with no basis... just matter-of-fact say-whatever?
So, you don't know of any place where the Bible does not correspond with what we see in the world regarding the dead, then?

Yes, I have read Bible quite well. What it says about God, soul, death, heaven, hell, resurrection, judgment and deliverance, IMHO, is completely false, made-up and superstitious. Yes, I am a Bible-basher because I find no truth in what is written in Bible. Being an atheist Hindu, I bash most Hindu scriptures as well.