Where are the Dead?

[nPeace]

According to your posts I read before you are an acolyte of the spiritualists. If you believe there are spirits of dead somewhere alive ... what can you say about the resurrection?

 

[nPeace]

Thanks. We’ve accepted the privilege of being “taught by Jehovah” (Isaiah 54:13).

We should try to be understanding of others’ perceptions, though. Remember that most use Bibles that have taken God’s Name out & replaced it with “LORD.” And these very ones hear things like Jesus is God, and that there’s a hellfire. And so much other confusion.

Many don’t recognize how important Jesus’ statement at Luke 10:21 is, that only his Father, Jehovah / Yahweh, grants an accurate understanding of the Bible; and Jesus was talking about the Jews! How much more so, the world!
The truth of matters has been hidden from the majority.

We can only try to be kind in sharing Jehovah’s comforting & eye-opening gems of truth; maybe something will reach their heart, and Jehovah will draw them.

We certainly are in “the last days”, and we are seeing the fulfillment of Isaiah 2:1-4 & Micah 4:1-4…. Jehovah’s “mountain” of worship is growing, and global peace prevails among His worshippers!
The love that Jesus said would identify his followers! (John 13:34-35) Another ‘gem’!

What you have said, is true, my brother. Good reminders.

 

[nPeace]

Scriptures were written by people who needed to sell their ideas. What is written in scriptures does not correspond with what we see in the world.
The dead are dead, completely. They were, but no more.
The dead bodies cannot do anything other than disintegrate in their graves.
Sure, one can hope. But no evidence that the dead can live again.

What did you read in the Bible about the dead, that "does not correspond with what we see in the world"?

 

[nPeace]

I have No view on the afterlife because 'aftelife' is Not a resurrection teaching - Acts 24:15
The Bible does Not teach ' after life ' ( more alive after death then before death ) but teaches a future resurrection - Acts 24:15
I did Not give a personal view but rather Jesus' view at John 11 that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain) in death.
Verses such as found at Psalm 6:5; Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 besides John 11:11-14
To me I find this is how Jesus interpreted Scripture from the old Hebrew Scriptures.

Excellent! Well said.

 

[YoursTrue]

I appreciate that you recognize our individual rights to have our own opinions and personal beliefs. I don't think that many Christians acknowledge the fact that others do not have to share their preferred Christian beliefs or agree with their personal opinions. In my experience, some Christians seem to believe that theirHi preferred beliefs about the afterlife and interpretation of the Bible are absolutely correct, so they state their beliefs as definitive facts.

Hi. Not sure of your opinion about where the dead are. Have you expressed your thought about that? I haven't read all the posts, so I apologize if you have, but I would appreciate it if you would let me know, thanks.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

I believe that verse means there shall be a resurrection of the spiritually dead to spiritual life when Christ returns and I believe that process is unfolding right now.

It truly saddens me to encounter the earthbound spirits of Christians because their sincere belief in the Bible misled them. As I previously mentioned in this thread (post #76), some of them have asked me, "Where is God?" or "Where is Jesus?" and "Why am I not in heaven yet?" They're in shock and very confused, so I have to explain what is happening to them and then attempt to console them in order to convince them to cross over. It's especially heartbreaking for me whenever it's the spirit of a child or a young person, such as the spirit of the young girl I told you about a while ago (see here). Some days are easier than others, even though I've been communicating directly with the dead for 16 years. As I've demonstrated in my previous posts (such as this one here), I have many years of personal experience and interactions with the dead, and all of it began for me 44 years ago when I was 6 years old. It has been awhile.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What did you read in the Bible about the dead, that "does not correspond with what we see in the world"?

Why should I read Bible rather than a wikipedia article - Death - Wikipedia
Hindu religious books also have a vast information on death, but that does not suit me as an atheist Hindu.
Mrtyu - Wikipedia, Mrityu, Mṛtyu: 33 definitions

 

[nPeace]

Why should I read Bible rather than a wikipedia article - Death - Wikipedia

If you are going to say what the Bible says, you need to know what the Bible says. Not what various people believe about what the Bible says.
If you don't know what the Bible says, but repeat what you hear people say, it's like someone hearing a report, and repeating it to someone as a fact.
I don't need to tell you what's the term for such persons, but we don't want to be like that, do we.

Hindu religious books also have a vast information on death, but that does not suit me as an atheist Hindu.
Mrtyu - Wikipedia, Mrityu, Mṛtyu: 33 definitions

We are talking about your statement "What is written in scriptures does not correspond with what we see in the world.". Not Hindu beliefs.
Was it just meant to be a Bible basher, with no basis... just matter-of-fact say-whatever?
So, you don't know of any place where the Bible does not correspond with what we see in the world regarding the dead, then?

 

[Trailblazer]

Isn't it interesting that only the mediums see them, and talk to them?
That should be informative to even the least logical person. What is more, some mediums need information about the dead person, from the living.
I think it's something to give consideration to, as to whom really, are the mediums communicating with.

1. It is perfectly logical (not illogical) that only mediums can see and talk to spirits -- they're mediums!

2. ALL mediums do not need need information about the dead person, from the living. If they ask for such information that is a reason to be suspicious.

 

[Trailblazer]

Any logical person does not know that.
Actually, I would like to meet the person, who said to their dad, "I had to interpret what you meant, when you said, 'Go to bed.' Or 'Take out the garbage.'"

Any logical person knows that most of the scriptures are not written to be a straightforward as 'Go to bed.' Or 'Take out the garbage.'
Jesus spoke in parables but even when He didn't people interpret the scriptures differently, which is proof positive that they can mean different things to different people.

Thus my point stands: Any logical person knows that all words have to be interpreted before they can be accepted, and words mean different things to different people, since not all humans think alike.

Here is an example of what I am saying. The following verses are very straightforward, perfectly clear. Jesus finished the work He had to do on earth and He is not coming back to earth, yet most Christians STILL BELIEVE that Jesus is going to return to earth someday. Why?

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Eli G]

I consider it totally disrespectful to be proselytizing about spiritualist practices in a subforum dedicated to talking about the Bible.
Moderators should consider this matter and take steps to put everything in its own place.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1. It is perfectly logical (not illogical) that only mediums can see and talk to spirits -- they're mediums!

Exactly. Psychic mediums have a sixth sense, which is extrasensory perception. It's the ability to sense things by means other than the known five senses of sight, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. Being a medium, I can interact with and communicate with earthbound human spirits and nonhuman entities. I can see them (visually and/or see a mental vision of them), I can hear them speak audibly and/or hear them speak when I have a mental vision of them, and I can communicate and interact with them as I communicate and interact with the living. I have shared specific private details about a stranger's deceased and/or surviving loved ones, as well as specific details or past events about their personal life that I couldn't possibly know. And as a sensitive, I can sense the presence of human spirits (and nonhuman entities) as well as feel their emotions at the time (such as elation, anger, fear, and despair). It is similar to how I feel varied sensations depending on the living person I am sensing. Generally speaking, I'm able to determine within a couple of minutes of meeting someone if they are trustworthy or not, and I can tell by various feelings what kind of human spirit or nonhuman entity I'm dealing with. I can also see the auras of other people in vivid colors. That is essentially what I experience every day as a medium, a sensitive, an empath, and a highly sensitive person.

This has been my personal experience, but I know that not everyone believes in it, and that's perfectly fine with me. To each his (or her) own. As far as I'm concerned, other people can accept or reject what I share about my experiences or about the paranormal. It's entirely their decision.

2. ALL mediums do not need information about the dead person, from the living. If they ask for such information that is a reason to be suspicious.

You are correct, Trailblazer.

A genuine medium doesn't need to be told any information about a dead person by the living. You may recall that I explained my process to you earlier in this thread (post #92). Despite what some people believe, mediums don't always communicate with and interact with the dead in the same way, and our mediumship may also differ. And as I explained earlier in this thread (post #74), I have my own methods of interacting with the dead that are comfortable for me, and other mediums have their own methods that are comfortable for them. I don't tell other mediums how they should interact with the dead, and they don't tell me how either. We respect each other and respect each other's abilities. We also sometimes help each other communicate with the dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

I consider it totally disrespectful to be proselytizing about spiritualist practices in a subforum dedicated to talking about the Bible.
Moderators should consider this matter and take steps to put everything in its own place.

Nobody is 'proselytizing' about spiritualist practices.

 

[Eli G]

There are subforums in this forum to discuss about spiritualist practices ... even if you don't consider what is proselitizing those practices or maybe trying to make propaganda to those "services".

This is a Biblical Debates subforum. Respect that. Learn where is your right place ... that is a first teaching we teach our children to get along with society. Act accordingly.

Are you so desperate for attention and clients that you need to sabotage a Bible subforum to talk about spiritualism?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Nobody is 'proselytizing' about spiritualist practices.

You're right. Nobody is proselytizing spiritualism. We're expressing our views on the topic of the thread, "Where are the dead?" Other non-Christians have expressed their views on the subject, so there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to do the same. I've decided to ignore anyone who tries to silence us.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Any logical person knows that most of the scriptures are not written to be a straightforward as 'Go to bed.' Or 'Take out the garbage.'
Jesus spoke in parables but even when He didn't people interpret the scriptures differently, which is proof positive that they can mean different things to different people.

Thus my point stands: Any logical person knows that all words have to be interpreted before they can be accepted, and words mean different things to different people, since not all humans think alike.

Yes, Christians have diverse interpretations of the Bible. It can have various meanings to them depending on the church denomination they belong to.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, Christians have diverse interpretations of the Bible. It can have various meanings to them depending on the church denomination they belong to.

@Eli G wants us to talk Bible, but when I posted the Bible verses that show what the Bible says he did not respond.

So where are the dead according to the Bible? The Christians I know from the GriefShare group at the church believe the dead are in heaven waiting for their loved ones and that they will see their loved ones in heaven.

But how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody can go to heaven until Jesus returns on Judgment Day?
And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody is going to heaven except a select few people?
And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody has ever been to heaven except Jesus?

Do you understand the problem?
Christians cherry-pick the verses that say what they 'want to believe' about the afterlife, and they also interpret them to mean what they want them to mean.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Eli G wants us to talk Bible, but when I posted the Bible verses that show what the Bible says he did not respond.

So where are the dead according to the Bible? The Christians I know from the GriefShare group at the church believe the dead are in heaven waiting for their loved ones and that they will see their loved ones in heaven.

But how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody can go to heaven until Jesus returns on Judgment Day?
And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody is going to heaven except a select few people?
And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that nobody has ever been to heaven except Jesus?

Do you understand the problem?
Christians cherry-pick the verses that say what they 'want to believe' about the afterlife, and they also interpret them to mean what they want them to mean.

Winner frubal.

And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that the dead (believers and unbelievers) are asleep in their graves awaiting judgment?

 

[Trailblazer]

And how can that be reconciled with another Christian belief that the dead (believers and unbelievers) are asleep in their graves awaiting judgment?

It can't.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It can't.

There is also the Christian belief in the rapture of the Christian Church, where Jesus allegedly returns for his followers and descends from the sky with the loud sound of a trumpet. According to this particular belief, all the Christians who are dead will be raised first from their graves to meet Jesus in the air, and all the Christians who are still alive will be raptured "in the twinkling of an eye" and will also meet him in the air. However, the "elephant in the room" problem with this belief is that Christians can't ever agree on when this alleged rapture of the church is supposed to take place. Some Christians claim that it will happen pre-tribulation; other Christians claim it will happen mid-tribulation; and yet other Christians claim it will happen post-tribulation. The only thing they seem to have in common is that they believe God will bring about some terrible tribulation in the world and that Christians won't be around to experience it. Have you ever read or heard of the Left Behind books? The story is centered around the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church.