Where are the Dead?

[Muffled]

Is it possible for you to show me where "God says so"?

Matt 11:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

 

[nPeace]

Matt 11:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

That scripture says "the dead are raised up" Not dead bodies are raised up.
I am already familiar with the scriptures that, speak of the resurrection of the dead.
For example,
(1 Corinthians 15:35-38) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.

What I wanted to know, is why do people believe that dead bodies are raised up.
Since it's not in scripture, why do you believe it?

 

[Bthoth]

Are the dead alive somewhere?
Can the dead interact with the living... or dead?
Is there any hope for the dead... can the dead live again?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Spoiler: Scriptures

Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) 4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

(Isaiah 26:19) “Your dead will live. My corpses will rise up. Awake and shout joyfully, You residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of the morning, And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.

(Hosea 13:14) From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.

(Mark 12:26) But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(John 11:24, 25) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

I agree with those above

Basically, those scriptures tell us

• the dead are not alive anywhere... except in God's memory. Luke 20:38
• the dead cannot communicate with either the living, or the dead. They cannot do anything. They are inactive - in the powerful grip of death.
• the dead can... will live again, by means of a resurrection, which God promises, and is both willing and able to carry out.

On examining these scriptures, do you agree this is what we find?

The 'basically' interpretations are a bit off the mark.

 

[Bthoth]

Matt 11:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

That is not from a god. It's from bible.

 

[Bthoth]

That scripture says "the dead are raised up" Not dead bodies are raised up.

That's reading it correctly.

I am already familiar with the scriptures that, speak of the resurrection of the dead.
For example,
(1 Corinthians 15:35-38) 35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.

what the life did, will live in another

What I wanted to know, is why do people believe that dead bodies are raised up.
Since it's not in scripture, why do you believe it?

That the living survive in their procreation and deeds. Acts that they cause to exist.

 

[nPeace]

I agree with those above

The 'basically' interpretations are a bit off the mark.

Do not interpretations belong to God? (Genesis 40:8)
No prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit. (2 Peter 1:20, 21)

There are no private interpretations here.
There are only God's.

Which ones do you think are "a bit off the mark"?

the dead do not know anything Ecclesiastes 9:5
there is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going. Ecclesiastes 9:10
Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:3, 4

In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Genesis 3:19
When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust. (Psalm 104:29
All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust. Ecclesiastes 3:20
Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out John 5:28, 29
Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; John 11:25
I have hope toward God... that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. Acts 24:15

Do you believe the dead are alive somewhere?

That's reading it correctly.

what the life did, will live in another

That the living survive in their procreation and deeds. Acts that they cause to exist.

You believe in reincarnation, and not resurrection?

 

[Bthoth]

Do not interpretations belong to God?

Since you're not god, then what are you writing?

There are no private interpretations here.
There are only God's.

Which ones do you think are "a bit off the mark"?

The ones that you interpreted

You believe in reincarnation, and not resurrection?

No such thing as resurrection, except to the make belief of scribes and pharisee (wo to them, as they have damaged many)

 

[cataway]

Since you're not god, then what are you writing?

The ones that you interpreted

No such thing as resurrection, except to the make belief of scribes and pharisee (wo to them, as they have damaged many)

no resurrection means no salvation .is that what you are saying ?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

When the dead identify with life, then they are living and can be resurrected.

??

If a person is living, there’s no need for them to be resurrected, ie., brought back to life; they are already alive.

The dead, though, are dead. As Jehovah God said to Adam, “You will return to the ground…For dust you are, and to dust you will return.” — Genesis 3:19.

(God didn’t say to Adam, “Your body”; God said “You”, Adam himself.)

Yes, the dead are the ones who need to be ‘brought back to life’, resurrected.

Our spirit is the same as the animals’ spirit. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)
It is simply our life force, which “goes out” @ death. — Psalm 146:3,4

@Frank Goad , does this make sense? What do you think the resurrection (which according to John 6:40 occurs on the “last day”) will do?

Take care.

@nPeace , I’m gonna PM you.

 

[nPeace]

Since you're not god, then what are you writing?

I'm writing what the inspired writers wrote from God.
You don't believe what they wrote is from God?

The ones that you interpreted

What... these?
The dead do not know anything
There is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in the grave where you are going
His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish
All those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out
There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous

These are not my interpretations.
These are what are writen in God's word - the Bible, by men inspired by God. In other words, the words are God breathed.
Do you believe the words are from God? If not, whom do you believe? Surely not yourself?

No such thing as resurrection, except to the make belief of scribes and pharisee (wo to them, as they have damaged many)

Oh,. You don't believe the Bible then? Where does your knowledge of God come from? Not your mind, I hope.
You wouldn't want people believing in you. We have had enough Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the likes.

 

[Bthoth]

no resurrection means no salvation .is that what you are saying ?

IF that is how you wish to observe your outlook, relying on the actions of another to be your salvation, be the evidence of what scribes and pharisee have done.


To answer your question........... . The good follow the rules.

 

[Bthoth]

I'm writing what the inspired writers wrote from God.
You don't believe what they wrote is from God?

Thank you.

What... these?
The dead do not know anything
There is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in the grave where you are going
His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish
All those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out
There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous

These are not my interpretations.
These are what are writen in God's word - the Bible,

God did not write bible. And the people inspired are about like you, trying to be kind and empathetic but have no idea what IS REAL.

by men inspired by God. In other words, the words are God breathed.

all breath is god breathed....... scribes and pharisee created the religion

Do you believe the words are from God? If not, whom do you believe? Surely not yourself?

Who do you believe? The bible is surely not by any god, so you believe by yourself what is by man and what is by god.

Oh,. You don't believe the Bible then? Where does your knowledge of God come from?

I read many opinions from many sources.

Not your mind, I hope.
You wouldn't want people believing in you. We have had enough Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the likes.

Exactly, those kind used what you think was by god and embellished it.

It is people that read from many opinions, and comprehend civility and personal responsibility, that easily overcome the rubbish that people have imposed with using the premise "the word of god"

 

[nPeace]

Thank you.

God did not write bible. And the people inspired are about like you, trying to be kind and empathetic but have no idea what IS REAL.

...and you? You know what is real? How?

all breath is god breathed....... scribes and pharisee created the religion

...and who created this religion that instructs people about God, and the doctrine that "all breath is god breathed"?

Who do you believe? The bible is surely not by any god, so you believe by yourself what is by man and what is by god.

...and what you say is from God? Or something else?

I read many opinions from many sources.

...and these sources are not from men "like you, trying to be kind and empathetic but have no idea what IS REAL"?

Exactly, those kind used what you think was by god and embellished it.

...and these sources you consult... they aren't what you think is from God, and real?

It is people that read from many opinions, and comprehend civility and personal responsibility, that easily overcome the rubbish that people have imposed with using the premise "the word of god"

...and these opinions are not rubbish, because why?

 

[Bthoth]

...and you? You know what is real? How?

Scientific comprehension combined with what people write. All manmade.

...and who created this religion that instructs people about God, and the doctrine that "all breath is god breathed"?

people created the religions and a whole bunch of gods. All of existence: all mass, all energy all time........ is the only system that i consider a god. "WE" are all a part of nature equally.

...and what you say is from God? Or something else?

Man made all words that enable understanding. One generation at a time. Learning enables understanding.

...and these sources are not from men "like you, trying to be kind and empathetic but have no idea what IS REAL"?

Men, women, children... people are what write for others to experience. Empathy is practically a natural part of being conscious.

...and these sources you consult... they aren't what you think is from God, and real?

No got wrote a word. People write words, that premise IS REAL.

...and these opinions are not rubbish, because why?

Lots of opinions from lots of people. Some are grounded, some are not. My point of view is to be honest before belief.

If I was capable, I could write far more and with clear articulation.

 

[nPeace]

Scientific comprehension combined with what people write. All manmade.

people created the religions and a whole bunch of gods. All of existence: all mass, all energy all time........ is the only system that i consider a god. "WE" are all a part of nature equally.

Man made all words that enable understanding. One generation at a time. Learning enables understanding.

Men, women, children... people are what write for others to experience. Empathy is practically a natural part of being conscious.

No got wrote a word. People write words, that premise IS REAL.

Lots of opinions from lots of people. Some are grounded, some are not. My point of view is to be honest before belief.

If I was capable, I could write far more and with clear articulation.

Thank you.
In other words,

• You do not know anything, except what you choose to believe, by way of opinion.
• You do not know that there is no God, who authored the Bible.
• You do not know what the truth is concerning the dead, resurrection, or other.

I could write more, but basically you had no basis for anything you said.
For example, when you said,

The 'basically' interpretations are a bit off the mark.​

That was just an empty assertion made without any basis, and was also false.

Am I right so far?

 

[Bthoth]

Thank you.
In other words,

• You do not know anything, except what you choose to believe, by way of opinion.

Each and every conscious life can assess on their own. Just as you did

• You do not know that there is no God, who authored the Bible.

I never said anything about 'no god' and I already know that there are a bunch of authors of bible. Not one is signed by god.

• You do not know what the truth is concerning the dead, resurrection, or other.

Better to be honest than accept religious beliefs. Especially when the variety of authors cannot even be honest about who the author(s) are.

I could write more, but basically you had no basis for anything you said.

OK. I do not claim to be an authority but of rational discussion.

For example, when you said,

The 'basically' interpretations are a bit off the mark.​

I know that my articulation skills are short of perfect. Thank you for reminding me.

That was just an empty assertion made without any basis, and was also false.

Am I right so far?

No, you are quite judgmental and like many expect capitulation as soon as you find a flaw.

Sorry. I am human and know it.

 

[nPeace]

Each and every conscious life can assess on their own. Just as you did

I never said anything about 'no god' and I already know that there are a bunch of authors of bible. Not one is signed by god.

I'm not saying you said there is no god. I'm saying, you do not know that there is no Got that authored the Bible. All in one breath. No punctuations.
Yes. The Bible has God's signature. Read 2 Peter 1:20, 21 for it.

Better to be honest than accept religious beliefs. Especially when the variety of authors cannot even be honest about who the author(s) are.

Are you saying that as long as one is religious, they are not honest?

OK. I do not claim to be an authority but of rational discussion.

I'm not sure what you are saying. What are you saying. In other words, could you elaborate on that statement please.

I know that my articulation skills are short of perfect. Thank you for reminding me.

I wasn't aware I helps, but always good to know something I said was useful.

No, you are quite judgmental and like many expect capitulation as soon as you find a flaw.

Sorry. I am human and know it.

Are you sure you used the right definition?
"That was just an empty assertion made without any basis, and was also false." is the same as, "What you said there is not true, and is just a claim made without any support.".
Neither observation is judgmental.

Didn't you say you are for "rational discussion"?
Does that involve just saying things, and wanting them to be accepted and given a thumbs up, even when they have no merit?
Rational discussion involves making observations, and pointing out error, falsehood, and unsupported claims. Does it not?

Why are you making these assertions?

 

[Bthoth]

I'm not saying you said there is no god. I'm saying, you do not know that there is no Got that authored the Bible. All in one breath. No punctuations.

Irrational. I said that no god signed the book. Not that there is no god. But if you understood what I said, then every life is 'of the gods'

of existence itself.

Yes. The Bible has God's signature. Read 2 Peter 1:20, 21 for it.

letters between church, has very little merit. As soon as I see certain books used, in certain discussions, i discount them immediately. What you posted is a perfect example of discounted material.

Now if the topic was in the book of the adversary (peter) he said that following the commandments is good, i could accept the scope.

Are you saying that as long as one is religious, they are not honest?

No, as much of the books of bible have great wisdom and I accept a bunch of it personally. For example: Matt 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

I wasn't aware I helps, but always good to know something I said was useful.

Sure, you can sleep better knowing that you reminded me, that I am not the best writer.

Didn't you say you are for "rational discussion"?

Rational discourse, does not use bible to try to confirm what god wrote based on bible.

Does that involve just saying things, and wanting them to be accepted and given a thumbs up, even when they have no merit?
Rational discussion involves making observations, and pointing out error, falsehood, and unsupported claims. Does it not?e

Why are you making these assertions?

Because with rational communication, each and anyone can overcome all authority claimed by religious folk of what is true and what is not.

Each conscious life is capable of being good without any need of a religious authority. I am American and here in the USA religious authority is not the last word.

This is not a christian country and christian beliefs do not rule us, period.

 

[cataway]

IF that is how you wish to observe your outlook, relying on the actions of another to be your salvation, be the evidence of what scribes and pharisee have done.


To answer your question........... . The good follow the rules.

last i checked Jesus is the only way to salvation . yes there will be some that will not have to die. other than that the dead don't get a chance for everlasting life unless they are alive ,and can prove they are worthy by following the rules. that's were judgment of their lives gets applied

 

[nPeace]

Irrational. I said that no god signed the book. Not that there is no god. But if you understood what I said, then every life is 'of the gods'

of existence itself.

Baseless assertion = Irrational.
I didn't say you said there is no God.

letters between church, has very little merit. As soon as I see certain books used, in certain discussions, i discount them immediately. What you posted is a perfect example of discounted material.

• You do not know that there is no God, who authored the Bible.
• You do not know that letters written by Jesus' followers have very little merit.

Stating an opinion as a fact, demonstrates irrationality, and is a baseless assertion.

Now if the topic was in the book of the adversary (peter) he said that following the commandments is good, i could accept the scope.

No, as much of the books of bible have great wisdom and I accept a bunch of it personally. For example: Matt 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Sure, you can sleep better knowing that you reminded me, that I am not the best writer.

Sorry. That's not my intention, and I encourage you to try not to be so self conscious about it. Otherwise, your perception of everything said will be about what you are conscious of... which nobody else may be thinking about.

Rational discourse, does not use bible to try to confirm what god wrote based on bible.

Rational discourse involves using the Bible, after confirming there is a good basis for doing so. Ask the Biblical archaeologists where they look to locate much of history in Israel.

Because with rational communication, each and anyone can overcome all authority claimed by religious folk of what is true and what is not.

That's irrational. To think that only religious folk make claims, and that rational communication does not overcome non-religios assertions... like the ones you make, for example.

Each conscious life is capable of being good without any need of a religious authority. I am American and here in the USA religious authority is not the last word.

Is that why people wonder if Satan has his palace in the USA?
Things are really bad in some parts of the USA. Some people don't even trust the cops there. Why do you suppose that is?

This is not a christian country and christian beliefs do not rule us, period.

Yes, I know.

It's all just lip service, is it.