YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Someone can't be dead unless he's first alive.
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Where are the Dead?
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That doesn't mean that God cannot bring back those He wants to.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
In agreement, that's why it is very important to see and understand the history of the Israelites. There were other gods all around them.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
God knows what will happen when the judgment is made. Jesus spoke of the good news preached and then, the end. I didn't make up John 14:6. Either he spoke the truth or it was fiction.
I would be happy to. And yes, I'm pretty open minded.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Bring them back to what? Why would God bring anyone back to a physical body?
An aside. But "free" will. Doesn't exist.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus is God, all who seek God in this world will find the Father through him.
Colt
Well-Known Member
You were free to express that opinion.
It helps me figure out where you're coming from if I know what denomination you are part of. I'm guessing that you are a Jehovas witness. Am I correct?
Required by Fate actually.
cataway
Well-Known Member
Jesus is a god all because you said and made him a god
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That would not make Jesus a God.
Jesus is not God.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Oh.
metis said:
There are many scriptures written. I'd have to research which copies are older than the Torah. However, the prophets of God (Jehovah/Yahweh) prophesied about a coming Messiah - the annointed one of God - Savior and redeemer of the world.
When Jesus came on the scene, he was identified by some, as that one, and he gained followers.
Jesus said, I... am the way... the truth... and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me.
He said, he came to bear witness to the truth, about his father, which had not been told for centuries.
When Jesus came on the scene, he was identified by some, as that one, and he gained followers.
Jesus said, I... am the way... the truth... and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me.
He said, he came to bear witness to the truth, about his father, which had not been told for centuries.
That doesn't answer the question? Sorry. Perhaps I don't understand what you are really asking.
Could you be more specific as to what you really want to know.
Do you want to know if these other scriptures leads one to life, or if they are true, or false?
If so, each person has to find the answer to that question for themselves.
For me, the Bible proves to be the book that reveals the truth, and is of God.
For @Trailblazer it's Bahaullah's writings.
For others, Hindu writing; Buddhist beliefs; etc.
For you?
The thing is, most people doubt the writings they claim has the truth.
For example, millions claim to be Christian, but doubt much of the Bible is "inspired of God".
Even @Trailblazer doesn't believe everything Bahaullah wrote. @Trailblazer, represent yourself, dear.
The true Christians never doubted the scriptures - that is, what was available during their time. They believed and quoted from the law of Moses; the prophets; the Psalms. Even Jesus did so.
The disciples of Christ accepted the letters of the apostles.
True Christians today, follow closely, the pattern of the early followers of Christ.
They all got, or are getting a chance to hear, if they want to.metis said:
For example...
(Exodus 9:16) But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth.
(Exodus 15:14) Peoples must hear; they will shudder; Anguish will seize the inhabitants of Phi·lisʹti·a.
(Numbers 14:15) . . .the nations who have heard of your fame. . .
(Joshua 6:27) . . .So Jehovah was with Joshua, and his fame spread through all the earth.
(Joshua 9:9) . . .they said to him: “Your servants have come from a very distant land out of regard for the name of Jehovah your God, because we have heard about his fame and about all he did in Egypt".
(Joshua 2:10) For we heard how Jehovah dried up the waters of the Red Sea before you when you left Egypt and what you did to the two kings of the Amʹor·ites, Siʹhon and Og, whom you devoted to destruction on the other side of the Jordan.
(Matthew 24:14) . . .And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
(Romans 10:13-15) 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
These do show that God is not unjust. He gives all a fair chance.
When you say you believe in him, do you mean you believe that he existed? According to John 3:16, believing in him involves accepting what Jesus taught - putting faith in his word, does it not?
nPeace
Veteran Member
...and God as well. At least Jesus God.
People tend to pick and choose what scriptures they would accept, as opposed to those they reject.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is true. Thanks.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote, but because I have shortcomings of my own, my feelings sometimes get in the way.Even @Trailblazer doesn't believe everything Bahaullah wrote. @Trailblazer, represent yourself, dear.
Colt
Well-Known Member
IMOP Something to consider:
Rodan of Alexandria
161:2.2 1. Jesus has admitted his divinity, and we believe him. Many remarkable things have happened in connection with his ministry which we can understand only by believing that he is the Son of God as well as the Son of Man.
161:2.3 2. His life association with us exemplifies the ideal of human friendship; only a divine being could possibly be such a human friend. He is the most truly unselfish person we have ever known. He is the friend even of sinners; he dares to love his enemies. He is very loyal to us. While he does not hesitate to reprove us, it is plain to all that he truly loves us. The better you know him, the more you will love him. You will be charmed by his unswerving devotion. Through all these years of our failure to comprehend his mission, he has been a faithful friend. While he makes no use of flattery, he does treat us all with equal kindness; he is invariably tender and compassionate. He has shared his life and everything else with us. We are a happy community; we share all things in common. We do not believe that a mere human could live such a blameless life under such trying circumstances.
161:2.4 3. We think Jesus is divine because he never does wrong; he makes no mistakes. His wisdom is extraordinary; his piety superb. He lives day by day in perfect accord with the Father’s will. He never repents of misdeeds because he transgresses none of the Father’s laws. He prays for us and with us, but he never asks us to pray for him. We believe that he is consistently sinless. We do not think that one who is only human ever professed to live such a life. He claims to live a perfect life, and we acknowledge that he does. Our piety springs from repentance, but his piety springs from righteousness. He even professes to forgive sins and does heal diseases. No mere man would sanely profess to forgive sin; that is a divine prerogative. And he has seemed to be thus perfect in his righteousness from the times of our first contact with him. We grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth, but our Master exhibits maturity of righteousness to start with. All men, good and evil, recognize these elements of goodness in Jesus. And yet never is his piety obtrusive or ostentatious. He is both meek and fearless. He seems to approve of our belief in his divinity. He is either what he professes to be, or else he is the greatest hypocrite and fraud the world has ever known. We are persuaded that he is just what he claims to be.
161:2.5 4. The uniqueness of his character and the perfection of his emotional control convince us that he is a combination of humanity and divinity. He unfailingly responds to the spectacle of human need; suffering never fails to appeal to him. His compassion is moved alike by physical suffering, mental anguish, or spiritual sorrow. He is quick to recognize and generous to acknowledge the presence of faith or any other grace in his fellow men. He is so just and fair and at the same time so merciful and considerate. He grieves over the spiritual obstinacy of the people and rejoices when they consent to see the light of truth.
161:2.6 5. He seems to know the thoughts of men’s minds and to understand the longings of their hearts. And he is always sympathetic with our troubled spirits. He seems to possess all our human emotions, but they are magnificently glorified. He strongly loves goodness and equally hates sin. He possesses a superhuman consciousness of the presence of Deity. He prays like a man but performs like a God. He seems to foreknow things; he even now dares to speak about his death, some mystic reference to his future glorification. While he is kind, he is also brave and courageous. He never falters in doing his duty.
161:2.7 6. We are constantly impressed by the phenomenon of his superhuman knowledge. Hardly does a day pass but something transpires to disclose that the Master knows what is going on away from his immediate presence. He also seems to know about the thoughts of his associates. He undoubtedly has communion with celestial personalities; he unquestionably lives on a spiritual plane far above the rest of us. Everything seems to be open to his unique understanding. He asks us questions to draw us out, not to gain information.
161:2.8 7. Recently the Master does not hesitate to assert his superhumanity. From the day of our ordination as apostles right on down to recent times, he has never denied that he came from the Father above. He speaks with the authority of a divine teacher. The Master does not hesitate to refute the religious teachings of today and to declare the new gospel with positive authority. He is assertive, positive, and authoritative. Even John the Baptist, when he heard Jesus speak, declared that he was the Son of God. He seems to be so sufficient within himself. He craves not the support of the multitude; he is indifferent to the opinions of men. He is brave and yet so free from pride.
161:2.9 8. He constantly talks about God as an ever-present associate in all that he does. He goes about doing good, for God seems to be in him. He makes the most astounding assertions about himself and his mission on earth, statements which would be absurd if he were not divine. He once declared, “Before Abraham was, I am.” He has definitely claimed divinity; he professes to be in partnership with God. He well-nigh exhausts the possibilities of language in the reiteration of his claims of intimate association with the heavenly Father. He even dares to assert that he and the Father are one. He says that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father. And he says and does all these tremendous things with such childlike naturalness. He alludes to his association with the Father in the same manner that he refers to his association with us. He seems to be so sure about God and speaks of these relations in such a matter-of-fact way. *
161:2.10 9. In his prayer life he appears to communicate directly with his Father. We have heard few of his prayers, but these few would indicate that he talks with God, as it were, face to face. He seems to know the future as well as the past. He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary things unless he were something more than human. We know he is human, we are sure of that, but we are almost equally sure that he is also divine. We believe that he is divine. We are convinced that he is the Son of Man and the Son of God." UB 1955
Rodan of Alexandria
2. THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS
161:2.1 Since Nathaniel and Thomas had so fully approved Rodan’s views of the gospel of the kingdom, there remained only one more point to consider, the teaching dealing with the divine nature of Jesus, a doctrine only so recently publicly announced. Nathaniel and Thomas jointly presented their views of the divine nature of the Master, and the following narrative is a condensed, rearranged, and restated presentation of their teaching:161:2.2 1. Jesus has admitted his divinity, and we believe him. Many remarkable things have happened in connection with his ministry which we can understand only by believing that he is the Son of God as well as the Son of Man.
161:2.3 2. His life association with us exemplifies the ideal of human friendship; only a divine being could possibly be such a human friend. He is the most truly unselfish person we have ever known. He is the friend even of sinners; he dares to love his enemies. He is very loyal to us. While he does not hesitate to reprove us, it is plain to all that he truly loves us. The better you know him, the more you will love him. You will be charmed by his unswerving devotion. Through all these years of our failure to comprehend his mission, he has been a faithful friend. While he makes no use of flattery, he does treat us all with equal kindness; he is invariably tender and compassionate. He has shared his life and everything else with us. We are a happy community; we share all things in common. We do not believe that a mere human could live such a blameless life under such trying circumstances.
161:2.4 3. We think Jesus is divine because he never does wrong; he makes no mistakes. His wisdom is extraordinary; his piety superb. He lives day by day in perfect accord with the Father’s will. He never repents of misdeeds because he transgresses none of the Father’s laws. He prays for us and with us, but he never asks us to pray for him. We believe that he is consistently sinless. We do not think that one who is only human ever professed to live such a life. He claims to live a perfect life, and we acknowledge that he does. Our piety springs from repentance, but his piety springs from righteousness. He even professes to forgive sins and does heal diseases. No mere man would sanely profess to forgive sin; that is a divine prerogative. And he has seemed to be thus perfect in his righteousness from the times of our first contact with him. We grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth, but our Master exhibits maturity of righteousness to start with. All men, good and evil, recognize these elements of goodness in Jesus. And yet never is his piety obtrusive or ostentatious. He is both meek and fearless. He seems to approve of our belief in his divinity. He is either what he professes to be, or else he is the greatest hypocrite and fraud the world has ever known. We are persuaded that he is just what he claims to be.
161:2.5 4. The uniqueness of his character and the perfection of his emotional control convince us that he is a combination of humanity and divinity. He unfailingly responds to the spectacle of human need; suffering never fails to appeal to him. His compassion is moved alike by physical suffering, mental anguish, or spiritual sorrow. He is quick to recognize and generous to acknowledge the presence of faith or any other grace in his fellow men. He is so just and fair and at the same time so merciful and considerate. He grieves over the spiritual obstinacy of the people and rejoices when they consent to see the light of truth.
161:2.6 5. He seems to know the thoughts of men’s minds and to understand the longings of their hearts. And he is always sympathetic with our troubled spirits. He seems to possess all our human emotions, but they are magnificently glorified. He strongly loves goodness and equally hates sin. He possesses a superhuman consciousness of the presence of Deity. He prays like a man but performs like a God. He seems to foreknow things; he even now dares to speak about his death, some mystic reference to his future glorification. While he is kind, he is also brave and courageous. He never falters in doing his duty.
161:2.7 6. We are constantly impressed by the phenomenon of his superhuman knowledge. Hardly does a day pass but something transpires to disclose that the Master knows what is going on away from his immediate presence. He also seems to know about the thoughts of his associates. He undoubtedly has communion with celestial personalities; he unquestionably lives on a spiritual plane far above the rest of us. Everything seems to be open to his unique understanding. He asks us questions to draw us out, not to gain information.
161:2.8 7. Recently the Master does not hesitate to assert his superhumanity. From the day of our ordination as apostles right on down to recent times, he has never denied that he came from the Father above. He speaks with the authority of a divine teacher. The Master does not hesitate to refute the religious teachings of today and to declare the new gospel with positive authority. He is assertive, positive, and authoritative. Even John the Baptist, when he heard Jesus speak, declared that he was the Son of God. He seems to be so sufficient within himself. He craves not the support of the multitude; he is indifferent to the opinions of men. He is brave and yet so free from pride.
161:2.9 8. He constantly talks about God as an ever-present associate in all that he does. He goes about doing good, for God seems to be in him. He makes the most astounding assertions about himself and his mission on earth, statements which would be absurd if he were not divine. He once declared, “Before Abraham was, I am.” He has definitely claimed divinity; he professes to be in partnership with God. He well-nigh exhausts the possibilities of language in the reiteration of his claims of intimate association with the heavenly Father. He even dares to assert that he and the Father are one. He says that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father. And he says and does all these tremendous things with such childlike naturalness. He alludes to his association with the Father in the same manner that he refers to his association with us. He seems to be so sure about God and speaks of these relations in such a matter-of-fact way. *
161:2.10 9. In his prayer life he appears to communicate directly with his Father. We have heard few of his prayers, but these few would indicate that he talks with God, as it were, face to face. He seems to know the future as well as the past. He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary things unless he were something more than human. We know he is human, we are sure of that, but we are almost equally sure that he is also divine. We believe that he is divine. We are convinced that he is the Son of Man and the Son of God." UB 1955
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is no question in my mind that Jesus had a divine nature, but He also had a human nature. Baha'u'llah explained that. He called it a spiritual nature, but that is a divine nature.
“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67