Where are the Dead?

[F1fan]

The people who make a final judgment on the non-existence of their souls are already dead.

What are their names and cell phone numbers?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I believe dead bodies are not useful for much other than worm bait.

I agree.

Spirits still alive after the death of a body have many more options.

I also believe that spirits are still alive (in a sense) after their bodies die and have choices about how they will spend their afterlife.

 

[Frank Goad]

I agree.



I also believe that spirits are still alive (in a sense) after their bodies die and have choices about how they will spend their afterlife.

I have hear that if you astral project alot.You will be better of in the afterlife then people who don't.I don't know if it is true or not though.

 

[sun rise]

The "dead" are on the astral plane doing past life reviews for some time. After which they are reborn in new bodies.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have hear that if you astral project alot.You will be better of in the afterlife then people who don't.I don't know if it is true or not though.

I can't speak for anyone else who has experienced astral projection, but it has helped to lessen my anxiety about my imminent death. This, combined with years of experience as a medium (which has contributed to my understanding of what happens after death), has substantially reduced my fear of death. It has also influenced my decision to reject what the Bible teaches about the afterlife. I've had far too many experiences to continue believing in the Bible.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

The last one cracked me up.
Good question. Wha your answer?

Do you mean my answer to: Better you should ask: "Is there any hope for the living?"

Only if the living do more than merely hope. I've never thought that "thoughts and prayers" alone are enough to solve or salve anything.

 

[nPeace]

Do you mean my answer to: Better you should ask: "Is there any hope for the living?"

Only if the living do more than merely hope. I've never thought that "thoughts and prayers" alone are enough to solve or salve anything.

I agree. What we think can't solve problems. We see that by just looking around us.
However, we can have hope, if it's based on a something tha can reliably solve man's problems.
For example, if the League of Nations, and the United Nations were solidly reliable, and capable of solving the world's problems, we could be sure there would he hope for the living, coming from that source.
As it stands, that's not the source of real hope... as we can see.

 

[Trailblazer]

Dead people are dead. Why be so greedy as to want more life than what is available? Ungrateful?

If the soul lives on after the body dies, as I believe, then that is what is going to happen.
What is greedy or ungrateful about that? It doesn't mean people are not grateful for the life they have on earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yep, dead people are definitely dead.

Sure, their bodies are dead, but their spirits are not dead. Otherwise you would not see dead spirits wandering around wondering what happened to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think this sounds like it makes sense.But I have read other passages that confuse me.

Do you mean these passages that say we have a soul?

Psalm 42:6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.

Psalm 43:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

2 Kings 4:27 And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught him by the feet: but Gehazi came near to thrust her away. And the man of God said, Let her alone; for her soul is vexed within her: and the Lord hath hid it from me, and hath not told me.

From these verses it is obvious that the soul is the person. The physical body is not the person, it is only a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are living on earth in a physical body. After the physical body dies, the soul continues to live in the spiritual world (heaven) in a spiritual body.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The "dead" are on the astral plane doing past life reviews for some time. After which they are reborn in new bodies.

I believe reincarnation is possible because I've seen or read about several compelling cases that appear to indicate its validity. However, I don't believe this to be the case for every human spirit within the spiritual realm or with the earthbound human spirits whom I have seen and communicated with.

 

[Truthseeker]

Do you mean these passages that say we have a soul?

Psalm 42:6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.

Psalm 43:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

2 Kings 4:27 And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught him by the feet: but Gehazi came near to thrust her away. And the man of God said, Let her alone; for her soul is vexed within her: and the Lord hath hid it from me, and hath not told me.

Where did you learn those passages from the Bible, or are you using some search engine on some site? I don't think you have Ocean last I knew.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are the dead alive somewhere?
Can the dead interact with the living... or dead?
Is there any hope for the dead... can the dead live again?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Spoiler: Scriptures

Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

(Psalm 104:29) When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.
(Psalm 146:3, 4) 3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 3:20) All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) 4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

(Ecclesiastes 12:7) Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

(Isaiah 26:19) “Your dead will live. My corpses will rise up. Awake and shout joyfully, You residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of the morning, And the earth will let those powerless in death come to life.

(Hosea 13:14) From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; From death I will recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O Grave? Compassion will be concealed from my eyes.

(Mark 12:26) But concerning the dead being raised up, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account about the thornbush, that God said to him: ‘I am the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob’?

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(John 11:24, 25) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(1 Corinthians 15:21) For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Basically, those scriptures tell us

• the dead are not alive anywhere... except in God's memory. Luke 20:38
• the dead cannot communicate with either the living, or the dead. They cannot do anything. They are inactive - in the powerful grip of death.
• the dead can... will live again, by means of a resurrection, which God promises, and is both willing and able to carry out.

On examining these scriptures, do you agree this is what we find?

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

The physical body will return to dust, but YOU are not your body. You are a soul.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

Within the context of this verse the spirit is the soul. When the physical body dies, the soul returns to the God in heaven who gave it life.

The physical body is only necessary so the soul can operate while we are living in a physical body.
The physical body can be likened to a software program that allows a computer to function.
The computer does not die after the software program is uninstalled, it continues to exist.
Likewise, the soul does not die after the physical body dies, it continues to exist.

After the physical body dies the soul is raised as a spiritual body and goes to heaven where it continues to live forever.
The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why it needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.

This transformation is called the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[Trailblazer]

Where did you learn those passages from the Bible, or are you using some search engine on some site? I don't think you have Ocean last I knew.

They were posted by @Frank Goad on another thread.

 

[Truthseeker]

They were posted by @Frank Goad on another thread.

Good! Now I can check to see if I get an Email notification for this.

 

[Trailblazer]

Good! Now I can check to see if I get an Email notification for this.

You won't get an e-mail notification because I think it was posted last week. I forgot the name of the thread.

Here, I found it for you:

Do these bible verses imply humans have a soul inside them?

Do these bible verses imply humans have a soul inside them?Yes or no?I think Yes.:) Psalm 42:6 and Psalm 43:5 And 2 Kings 4:27.

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Truthseeker]

You won't get an e-mail notification because I think it was posted last week. I forgot the name of the thread.

Here, I found it for you:

Do these bible verses imply humans have a soul inside them?

Do these bible verses imply humans have a soul inside them?Yes or no?I think Yes.:) Psalm 42:6 and Psalm 43:5 And 2 Kings 4:27.

www.religiousforums.com

I got this except for the second part which apparently was edited in later. It was in normal Email, not spam.

 

[nPeace]

Some scriptures I found answers these questions...

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

The physical body will return to dust, but YOU are not your body. You are a soul.

Thanks for that. Yes, you are a person, and a life, or have life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.

Within the context of this verse the spirit is the soul. When the physical body dies, the soul returns to the God in heaven who gave it life.

The Hebrew word here is ruach - (רוּחַ) which is breath, wind, spirit.
The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh - (נֶפֶשׁ) a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

Can you explain why you inserted soul in the text? Is it based on what you believe?
Surely the belief of a person does not change what is actually written. I think you know that.
You don't believe in changing the scriptures to what we believe, do you?

The physical body is only necessary so the soul can operate while we are living in a physical body.

You speak of the soul as though it is something that exists on its own.
Do you know you cannot exist without a body, whether that body be flesh, or spirit.
You are the person. Are you not?

The physical body can be likened to a software program that allows a computer to function.

Did you put that correctly, or should it be the other way around?

The computer does not die after the software program is uninstalled, it continues to exist.
Likewise, the soul does not die after the physical body dies, it continues to exist.

How about this. The spirit is the CPU that allows the computer - the body, - to work. The software, is the soul.
You can destroy the computer, but the software can be retrieved, and put in another computer.
However, the software is useless without the computer.

In the same way, the body without spirit is dead (James 2:26) , the soull is also inactive. It's dead, until it is retrieved from death, and given a brand new computer... I mean, body.

That certainly is keeping in sync with Ezekiel 18:4.

Ezekiel 18:4 Interlinear: Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son -- they are Mine, The soul that is sinning -- it doth die.

Joshua 2:14

Joshua 2:14 Interlinear: And the men say to her, 'Our soul for yours -- to die; if ye declare not this our matter, then it hath been, in Jehovah's giving to us this land, that we have done with thee kindness and truth.'

...and others.

After the physical body dies the soul is raised as a spiritual body and goes to heaven where it continues to live forever.

Where can I find that in the Bible?
I'm willing to look at any scriptures you can provide, which says that.

The physical body cannot exist in the Kingdom of God in heaven. That is why it needs to be transformed into a spiritual body.

True, Paul said, "I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Corinthians 15:50)
Transformed? Do you mean the physical body will change into a spirit body... No death?

This transformation is called the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

You quoted it. Did you see it?
They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies
The New Living Transaction paraphrases texts though, so let's try these.
Unfortunately, I can't quote every one, but you can check them yourself.

Spoiler: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body

New International Version
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

English Standard Version
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Berean Standard Bible
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Berean Literal Bible
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual.

King James Bible
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

New King James Version
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

New American Standard Bible
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

NASB 1995
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

NASB 1977
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Legacy Standard Bible
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Amplified Bible
it is sown a natural body [mortal, suited to earth], it is raised a spiritual body [immortal, suited to heaven]. As surely as there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body.

Christian Standard Bible
sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
;

I excluded the paraphrased.
This verse is similar to 1 Peter 3:18 . . .He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

Yes, there are two kinds of bodies. The one we know well - flesh, or physical... then there is the spirit body - the heavenly body.
However, you notice the fleshly one dies before being given a spirit body. What is more, after being raised up. Raised up from where? The grave.

Verse 51. Again, let's exclude the paraphrased translations.

Spoiler: We will not all fall asleep

New International Version
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

English Standard Version
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Berean Standard Bible
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—

Berean Literal Bible
Behold, I tell to you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--

King James Bible
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

New King James Version
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

New American Standard Bible
Behold, I am telling you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

NASB 1995
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

NASB 1977
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Legacy Standard Bible
Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

Amplified Bible
Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],

Christian Standard Bible
Listen, I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,

I can live with the one or two that used their own view, but I like how the Amplified, put it.
Amplified Bible
Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],

Yes, they don't sleep in death, but that's not to say they don't die.
That's to say, an instant death and instant resurrection, in a spirit body, does not allow for sleep in death.
That too, is keeping in sync with the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 15:36 - The Resurrection Body

You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

biblehub.com

Paul certainly was not contradicting himself. He made clear, they had to die, before being raised to incorruption.
We see that from verses 37, and 38 as well.

1 Corinthians 15:37 - The Resurrection Body

And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else.

biblehub.com

1 Corinthians 15:38 - The Resurrection Body

But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

biblehub.com

Verse 50 makes that clear, even in the paraphrased translations.

• nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable
• nor does decay inherit immortality
• neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
• what decays cannot inherit what does not decay

 

[Truthseeker]

can live with the one or two that used their own view, but I like how the Amplified, put it.
Amplified Bible
Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],

That is cherry picking of a sort, picking the translation that reflects your worldview. We should impartially look at the translations. We should also not pick those that do the interpretation as it translates.

 

[F1fan]

If the soul lives on after the body dies, as I believe, then that is what is going to happen.

Of course you do. It's what you want, yes?

What is greedy or ungrateful about that? It doesn't mean people are not grateful for the life they have on earth.

Because there is no basis in fact that it's true, and the only reason anyone hears about this idea is ancient religious lore. For any modern person to want to believe this idea is true is a sort of self-service, a sort of immortality, which I guess offsets the fear of death. That is a lot of mind drama.