Where are the Gold Plates?

[Melissa G]

Close is simply not good enough. What evidence do you have that these Lammenites, Nephites, and whatever were real tribes, I recall no mention of them in the OT.

Myths, are Myths, not evidence per se, except that humans have similar myths across the globe, but not the same myths.

Melissa g

 

[madhatter85]

And so a story was fabricated without any knowledge of meso-american culture by a man with a 4th grade level education. i see, that totally makes sense, and that he could fabricate a book that co-incides with the bible perfectly wihout any conflicts.

 

[Melissa G]

Where exactly in the book of Mormon does it mention specifically the Aztecs or the Olmecs, and don't forget the Maya, most importantly ?

It coincides with the bible, because it's modelled on the KJV.

Melissa G

 

[Bishka]

Where exactly in the book of Mormon does it mention specifically the Aztecs or the Olmecs, and don't forget the Maya, most importantly ?

It coincides with the bible, because it's modelled on the KJV.

Melissa G

I was right, I guess you don't have anything better to do with your time then tell people their religion is false.

 

[Melissa G]

I guess you LDS always think your right, even when your demonstrabely proved not to be

~M

 

[Bishka]

I guess you LDS always think your right, even when your demonstrabely proved not to be

~M

Nice try.

I'm one person, stop trying to smear me on the rest of the LDS.

BTW, you still haven't proved that's not what you are doing.

 

[madhatter85]

And she still hasn't answered any of my questions.

 

[Katzpur]

Reformed is not a term applicable to scribal shorthand.

It was the Nephites themselves who referred to their alphabet as "reformed Egyptian." Whatever one might call it today is entirely beside the point.

 

[nutshell]

Melissa, I already asked you this, but what is "hearsay?"

 

[Katzpur]

I find it stimulating for the mind. It doesn't scare me at all, but it bothers me so many intelligent people are prepared to hold true to a blatant fabrication. This in the face of overwhelming evidence which proves the basic tenets of the LDS to be false.

Every one of the posts opposing rationalism simply reinforces this.

Melissa, has it never occurred to you that belief in pagan gods look silly to people on the outside, too. There is no more evidence to support your beliefs than there is to support ours. It bothers you that intelligent people actually believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be true. Why? There have been intelligent people in all times and all places who believe differently than you do. If you are looking at a religion that has a fairly large number of adherents, and if that tradition has been around for any length of time, there must be something in it that appeals to different people. To just be baffled that "intelligent" people could behave so stupidly is really not a very "intelligent" conclusion.

 

[Katzpur]

Close is simply not good enough. What evidence do you have that these Lammenites, Nephites, and whatever were real tribes, I recall no mention of them in the OT.

Of course there was no mention of them in the Old Testament, Melissa. They didn't exist, as tribes, in Old Testament times. There is no mention in the Old Testament of a lot of tribes that existed in other times and places. I fail to see what this has to do with anything.

 

[cardero]

These could have been some interesting questions for the "Ask A Mormon" thread but since the subject matter has been well defined in this thread, I would ask for any current LDS members to offer their knowledge and experience to these comments.

Polaris writes: I think part of it was for Joseph's own growth and testing. He was instructed to meet with Moroni once a year for 4 years at that same place. At each of these occasions Joseph received instruction. Moroni at one point warned Joseph against obtaining the plates for personal profit. Maybe that was a real temptation for Joseph and it was a necessary test for him, knowing exactly where the plates were located, to have the patience and trust in God to wait and do what God wanted concerning the plates.

Would it have been more practical or beneficial for God to seek someone whom He could already entrust with this material who was already as mature and did not require testing?

Polaris writes: Apparently the plates were needed to be present for the Urim and Thumim and seer stone to work properly. Certain men were allowed to view the plates and testify as witnesses to them.

Wasn’t Joseph Smith experimenting with seer stones before the plates were found?

From wikipedia:
In March 1826, Smith was convicted after an alleged admission to being a "disorderly person" and an "impostor" in a court in Bainbridge, New York.[8] In court documents Smith was described as a 'Glass Looker' for using his peep stone to locate buried treasure in exchange for fees. It was during this time period when Smith was involved in 'glass looking' that he is said to have discovered the buried golden tablets. He met his wife Emma Hale Smith during a treasure-hunting expedition in Harmony, Pennsylvania (now Oakland), and the couple eloped in 1827.

Smith said that an 1823 visitation from a resurrected prophet named Moroni[9] led to his finding and unearthing (in 1827) a long-buried book, inscribed on metal leaves, which contained a record of God's dealings with the ancient Israelite inhabitants of the Americas.

Polaris writes: That is consistent with how God presents truth to mankind -- he establishes witnesses who testify, then allows the spirit to confirm of the testified truths.

But Joseph Smith and other Biblical authors didn’t actually present the Truth, they have simply authored something to devote faith towards which may be in line with methods of the past but certainly goes a far way in identifying that the BEing that these individuals interacted with was the first existing enitity entitled GOD.

 

[Popeyesays]

Well, the stone tablets were incised by the hand of God, according to the Book of Exodus. The Gold Tablets were set down by the hand of Moroni, I believe.

The Gold Plates were taken up to heaven, the Stone Tablets were not. Moses dashed them to the ground according to the book, out of rage at the sight of the Hebrews worshipping the Golden Calf.

The shattered tablets were NOT taken up to God--those shards and dust were picked up and put away within the Ark of the Covenant and carried throughout the wanderings in the Sinai and eventually were housed in one of the Temples which pre-dated Solomon's Temple.

Supposedly the Ark of the Covenant went into Egypt on one of the "conquests" infoicted on the Israeloites by the Egyptians.

It's really a different case entirely.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Melissa G]

Of course, I realise that all gods look rather silly if you like. I just enjoy the myths, I feel comfatble with them. There's no problem with belief, as long as that all it is. It's the attempts to prove everything Mr Smith said and wrote was factual I find particulary annoying.

Melissa G

 

[madhatter85]

So in other words you're an athiest, because you don't want to know what is true or not? you just like the stories right?

 

[nutshell]

So in other words you're an athiest, because you don't want to know what is true or not? you just like the stories right?

That's ignorant. A person can believe in God and in the Truth of the mythologies they participate in without believing the mythologies to be literal.

 

[gnomon]

So in other words you're an athiest, because you don't want to know what is true or not? you just like the stories right?

You're characterization of atheists is a bit inaccurate.

edit: Just making a note. If anyone disputes there are numerous threads already discussing the notion. I do not wish to derail the thread.

 

[madhatter85]

Of course, I realise that all gods look rather silly if you like. I just enjoy the myths, I feel comfatble with them. There's no problem with belief, as long as that all it is. It's the attempts to prove everything Mr Smith said and wrote was factual I find particulary annoying.

Melissa G

Number 1, the book of Mormon was not written by Joseph Smith, it has been proven time and time again, it is impossible for him to have it because of writing styles, education. It is impossible for 1 person to have written the Book of Mormon. that has been proven with computer analasys.

With your statement, you would have to say that any attempts to prove any religious text right and accurate would be annoying.

 

[Melissa G]

Moreorless. Aplogies, I forget for the moment he claimed to be just the agency of translation. Of course, I could no more prove the myths of Hathor, Isis and Aphrodite were factual than you can the book of Mormon.

Wasn't all this about Gold Plates anyway, seems to have wandered off on a Tangent.

Melissa G

 

[KingM]

Number 1, the book of Mormon was not written by Joseph Smith, it has been proven time and time again, it is impossible for him to have it because of writing styles, education. It is impossible for 1 person to have written the Book of Mormon. that has been proven with computer analasys.

Let me get this straight. You can't disprove the Book of Mormon through archeology, but you can prove it by a computer program written by someone at BYU?

I don't get the education thing. What was Shakespeare's formal education? How many years of college did Jane Austen attend? Is Stephen King a PHD? In any event, if the Book of Mormon were such wonderful, amazing, insightful writing, people should be buying and reading it for its literary content, even if they didn't believe the origin. It should be studied in universities around the country as great writing by some sort of religious savant. As far as I know, it isn't.

Indeed, the popular opinion seems to match Mark Twain's: "Chloroform in print."