Where are the Gold Plates?

[KingM]

The best evidence for the LDS church would be if they could produce the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated and let scholars study them. Yet, when I asked where one could go to see the gold plates, I was told that after Joseph Smith finished translating them "an angel took them up to heaven."

At the very least, that sounds suspicious, don't you agree?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No more than Moses's Tablets

Seems to be the norm for written messages from God.

 

[cardero]

The best evidence for the LDS church would be if they could produce the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated and let scholars study them. Yet, when I asked where one could go to see the gold plates, I was told that after Joseph Smith finished translating them "an angel took them up to heaven."

At the very least, that sounds suspicious, don't you agree?

A little bit, but the majority of my translated inspirations which I recently published reside in local libraries and it is common duty that we should return our books to their proper owners. I think at the time that Joseph Smith deciphered these gold tablets, if he would have put the offer on the table to purchase these plates and possibly pooled his resources, he still would have come up short.

 

[Aasimar]

The best evidence for the LDS church would be if they could produce the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated and let scholars study them. Yet, when I asked where one could go to see the gold plates, I was told that after Joseph Smith finished translating them "an angel took them up to heaven."

At the very least, that sounds suspicious, don't you agree?

I agree.

 

[KingM]

No more than Moses's Tablets

Seems to be the norm for written messages from God.

They weren't God's actual words, but supposedly came from records carefully kept over hundreds of years, condensed into a single volume, and then hid away for fourteen hundred years so they could be found and translated. In the example you give, God also brought down the records before taking them back. The Book of Mormon is purely a human story until that moment when the angel came and swept them up to heaven.

The other main difference, of course, is that Joseph Smith's story is well known from the historical record, while the only information we have about Moses comes from the bible.

 

[cardero]

Transcribing the word from a Being claiming to be God is like securing Angel’s hair (manna from heaven) or documenting a dream. You have to strike when the iron (or gold plate) is hot. If it is God’s word-then give it back to Him. What you will always have remaining is the message, which then must be qualified or proven (faith will not assist you with this). Rarely should it be the messenger who gets scrutinized first. If the message does not pan out, than the source must be suspectable as well.

There was nothing that Joseph Smith could have done with those plates if he retained possession of them. It couldn’t refute God and it couldn’t support the existence of God. Whether he returned them out of fear and obedience to God or whether it supported his own plan to say that he returned them, the responsibility of authenticity and authority would have to fall on the remaining written messages. Claiming and crediting GODly inspiration is impossible today even with our current Laws.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

maybe south park hid them in their LDS episode.

 

[Autodidact]

Recently, God sent an angel named Bobo to tell me what password to use to get an email explaining Absolutely Everything. I did, and read the email, which was written in a computer code unknown to me. Fortunately, I had a decryption program to translate it. Unfortunately, I don't know how to use a computer, so I asked my neighbor to decrypt it for me, which he was kind enough to do. Then, all of a sudden, it was deleted from my hard drive. Bummer. Anyway, I still have the printout, as well as an affidavit from my neighbor. So if there's anything you want to know, just ask me.
There is a small fee involved. Also I get to have as many girlfriends as I want, but they don't. Nifty, eh?

 

[quadrophenic_9]

There is a small fee involved. Also I get to have as many girlfriends as I want, but they don't. Nifty, eh?

You have a major problem with the LDS, don't you? If it isn't hurting you, then why bother them?

 

[Halcyon]

At the very least, that sounds suspicious, don't you agree?

From a skeptical POV it sounds like there were no plates to begin with, which is what i obviously believe, because if i did believe there were plates i'd be stupid not to be LDS.

Most people believe in something that a lot of other people would consider fantasy or fabrication. The sooner people accept that a) there are people who believe in incredible and perhaps unlikely stories, and b) there are people who don't believe in the stories you consider truth, the better for everyone.

 

[Autodidact]

You have a major problem with the LDS, don't you? If it isn't hurting you, then why bother them?

I thought this was a forum for discussing religion??? If they don't want to discuss their religion with non-believers, why are they here?

I love Mormons. They're my favorite religion next to Scientologists. Oh, and those Giant Teapot people.

I like trying to figure out the truth. I think the basic tenets of Mormonism (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) are false. I enjoy discussing the issues both to test my own position, and challenge others.

 

[Autodidact]

You have a major problem with the LDS, don't you? If it isn't hurting you, then why bother them?

Are you doubting my email? Why? You haven't even read it yet. It answers Absolutely Everything.

 

[quadrophenic_9]

They weren't God's actual words, but supposedly came from records carefully kept over hundreds of years, condensed into a single volume, and then hid away for fourteen hundred years so they could be found and translated.

Actually, if you have done proper research you would know that the LDS claim them to be God's words and that the message in the Book of Mormon claim to be from God.

Honestly, do any of you actually do any research before spouting off on these topics?

 

[quadrophenic_9]

Are you doubting my email? Why? You haven't even read it yet. It answers Absolutely Everything.

No, you can believe whatever you would like to believe. I'm not going to believe it, because I don't believe it is from a source I can trust, but that doesn't mean I'm going to berate you over it and tell you it is wrong and that you believe falsely.

 

[quadrophenic_9]

I thought this was a forum for discussing religion???

Telling people they are wrong is not discussing. Making fun of people is not discussing. There is a difference between your discussion and someone who is truly interested in discussing matters. They ask politely and debate politely, you just assume you know everything and go from there.

I like trying to figure out the truth.

Yes, and I'm big bird. :sarcastic It seem like you have made up your mind on truth (your atheism) a long time ago, that doesn't seem like a very valid excuse.

 

[KingM]

Actually, if you have done proper research you would know that the LDS claim them to be God's words

Totally false. They are not the actual words of God, they are the words of ancient prophets, excepting the part where Jesus comes and delivers his Sermon on the Mount to the New World people.

and that the message in the Book of Mormon claim to be from God.

Inspired by God, not directly from God.

Honestly, do any of you actually do any research before spouting off on these topics?

I've read the book cover to cover. Have you?

 

[Autodidact]

Telling people they are wrong is not discussing. Making fun of people is not discussing. There is a difference between your discussion and someone who is truly interested in discussing matters. They ask politely and debate politely, you just assume you know everything and go from there.

I think they are.

Yes, and I'm big bird. :sarcastic It seem like you have made up your mind on truth (your atheism) a long time ago, that doesn't seem like a very valid excuse.

And you know this how?
The fact that I have an opinion does not mean that I'm not open to changing it.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Recently, God sent an angel named Bobo to tell me what password to use to get an email explaining Absolutely Everything. I did, and read the email, which was written in a computer code unknown to me. Fortunately, I had a decryption program to translate it. Unfortunately, I don't know how to use a computer, so I asked my neighbor to decrypt it for me, which he was kind enough to do. Then, all of a sudden, it was deleted from my hard drive. Bummer. Anyway, I still have the printout, as well as an affidavit from my neighbor. So if there's anything you want to know, just ask me.
There is a small fee involved. Also I get to have as many girlfriends as I want, but they don't. Nifty, eh?

There is a way to get your view across withought offending anyone.

 

[Polaris]

The best evidence for the LDS church would be if they could produce the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated and let scholars study them. Yet, when I asked where one could go to see the gold plates, I was told that after Joseph Smith finished translating them "an angel took them up to heaven."

The plates were sacred and were never meant to become a museum article. Further, people were willing to kill Joseph to obtain the plates, so returning them to Moroni was in part likely done both to protect them and Joseph's life. As much as we'd all love to be able to see the plates for ourselves, that has never been the way that God has confirmed religious truths to mankind.

The NT Apostles walked and talked with Christ and witnessed first hand the many miracles that he performed, but Christ appropriately pointed out concerning his divine Sonship: "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven". God confirms his religious truths through spiritual means, not physical evidence.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

every so often people come to this site thinking that is fun to troll the LDS.
That is not what we stand for.
the site is not called Religious education for fun.
It is for us all to discuss. debate and learn with and about other faiths.