Where Christianity and Buddhism Agree?

[URAVIP2ME]

@URAVIP2ME I'm sure you'd love to explain the systems of thought from the ancient world that actually have superior moral and humane standards when compared with Christianity. Such as Epicureanism.

Please explain to me an example of superior moral and humane standards when compared to Jesus' commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.

Before Jesus, what is called the 'Golden Rule' (Leviticus 19:18) was in effect.
People were to love others as they love themselves.
Now, under Christ (genuine Christianity) we are to love others 'more' than self.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I Cor 7 [8]To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.

...and continuing on to the next verse at 1 Corinthians 7:9 that if a person does Not have such self control, then let them marry. It is better to marry than to ' burn with passion ' such as meaning being inflamed with passionate desires.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

About conscience, we might all have it more or less from small,.....
I think the stronger version of a Biblical human depiction is this:

Ecclesiastes 8:9 All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, [during] the time that man has dominated man to his injury.​

The conscience is overruled in places where social values take over. If I am your Lord and you do something that displeases me greatly, 'Off with his head.'

I like how you say 'overruled'. To me that means something influences one's in-born conscience - Romans 2:15.
Some people's consciences are damaged literally by child abuse. Even babies which are kicked or punched while still in the womb can be born with a damaged conscience. That would also ' overrule ' their normal conscience.
I like too how you posted Ecclesiastes 8:9. Any thoughts about 1 Timothy 4:2 because there it mentions about people having their conscience seared with a hot iron. So, a person's conscience can become so calloused and unfeeling just as flesh can become calloused and unfeeling when branded by a hot branding iron.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It was a requirement for catholic monks however for centuries to the present day. The protestants led by Martin Luther decided to do away with this tradition in the sixteenth century A.D.

As I mentioned, it was Not a 'Christian' requirement. I was Not speaking about any 'Catholic' requirements.
First-century Christian teachings taught it is wrong to forbid marriage (that includes for everyone) - 1 Timothy 4:3

 

[Glaurung]

First-century Christian teachings taught it is wrong to forbid marriage (that includes for everyone) - 1 Timothy 4:3

And Catholicism has never forbidden marriage. Where do people get such an idea from? Nevertheless celibacy as a Christian ideal is explicitly stated as such in Scripture no matter how much Protestants pretend that it isn't there. Catholicism has never claimed that being a Christian requires celibacy. It does however take Jesus words seriously when Jesus states that giving it all up including forgoing marriage is highly meritorious. Obviously most people will take the householder opinion and that's perfectly fine.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And Catholicism has never forbidden marriage. Where do people get such an idea from?.

I think people get that idea from: that once a person chooses to be a priest, monk, nun they are forbidden to marry.
They have No choice about getting married once they become a priest, monk, nun, even pope, etc.
That is un-scriptural according to 1 Timothy 4:3. (that also includes abstaining from any meats is wrong)
In other words, if a person wants to abstain (fast) that is a private personal matter and Not to be done in public.
Any comments about Matthew 6:16-18

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Please explain to me an example of superior moral and humane standards when compared to Jesus' commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has.

For one he doesn't define love clearly enough, which is clear in some of his followers with their hatred and prejudice, which they pass about as love. Some of the most hateful people I've ever known were Christians. He doesn't talk about the way a society should behave, or any such sort. Epicurus had a comprehensive explanation for societal ethics and what the point of having a government is- to protect everyone from harm.

He also doesn't include non-human animal life, or his followers don't think he does. Many Christians contribute greatly to the mass slaughterhouse industry. Do you even love out of feeling empathy and concern for the things you're supposed to be loving, or out of a sense of righteousness?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This made me think of 1 Timothy 4:1-3...
"1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron. 3They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from certain foods that God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. "
1 Timothy 4 BSB
interesting that the Bible, the book for professing Christians, mentions how some of them will be misled, by their own leaders, described as 'hypocrites and liars.'

I found a passage about being misled by their own leaders at Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 that after the apostles would be off the scene (end of 1st century) that 'wolves' dressed in sheep's clothing would be fleecing the flock of God which ties in with the warning Jesus gives us at Matthew 7:17 that inwardly such religious leaders are just wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Before Jesus, what is called the 'Golden Rule' (Leviticus 19:18) was in effect.

The golden rule is so common sense it doesn't require a commandment, and many other parts of the Bible are repugnant to it. Most cultures had some kind of golden rule concept from a teacher.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

The Buddhist scriptures DO enunciate universal love very clearly in saying one should not kill, oppress, or 'torment' any sentient beings. Many Christians can't even follow through on other people.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

@URAVIP2ME the reason I called you out is your statement about 'the nations murder and such', which is RIDICULOUS- to imply other nations are on the whole less moral than Jews and Christians. You can't just say that, not knowing the degree to which these other cultures discussed morality. You didn't even imply less moral. You implied murderous and straight up evil.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

For one he doesn't define love, which is clear in his followers with their hatred and prejudice, which they pass about as love. Some of the most hateful people I've ever known were Christians. He doesn't talk about the way a society should behave, or any such sort. Epicurus had a comprehensive explanation for societal ethics and what the point of having a government is- to protect everyone from harm.
He also doesn't include non-human animal life, or his followers don't think he does. Many Christians contribute greatly to the mass slaughterhouse industry. Do you even love out of feeling empathy and concern for the things you're supposed to be loving, or out of a sense of righteousness?

Thank you for your reply, but please don't confuse Christendom with Christianity.
'Christendom' is part of the MANY Jesus warns us against at Matthew 7:23-24,
I truly believe you that some of the most hateful people you known were Christians (Christian in name only that is)
I too have been told by such 'so-called Christians' that I am Not Christian.
Jesus warns us that fake ' weed/tares ' Christians would be among genuine ' wheat ' Christians.
That does Not make Jesus' 1st-century teachings as wrong, but makes the behavior of fake Christians as wrong.
Can you find anything in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount that isn't about how society should behave.
Jesus' Sermon is found between chapters 5 to 7 of Matthew.
I think Jesus did define love (self-sacrificing love) by healing and resurrecting the dead, besides dying for us.
Jesus gave us an illustration or a story about a neighborly good Samaritan person:
That man helped a total stranger in his time of distress. Thus, Jesus was teaching us that we should all widen out, or broaden out, in even showing un-selfish love to a total stranger in distress.
I am Not trying to overwhelm with Bible verses, but want you to know where I find what I am posting.

I like how you brought out about having a government to protect from harm.
Jesus as king (ruler) of God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 will protect from harm.
Jesus is described as going to have subjects or citizens all over Earth at Psalms 72:8
Any thoughts about who Jesus will protect from harm as found at Psalms 72:12-14.

Non-human life, as mentioned at Proverbs 12:10; Psalms 145:15-16; Exodus 23:4-5; Deuteronomy 22:10; Deuteronomy 25:4; Exodus 20:10; Exodus 23:12; Deuteronomy 5:14, were to be cared for properly, in other words: mercifully treated. Jesus stood by that Constitution of the Mosaic Law regarding animal life.

Even in the coming future, as Isaiah 30:23 mentions, having cattle or livestock feeding or grazing in large pastures, does Not mean slaughterhouse. Such livestock can be used helping in 'farming Not harming'.
At that coming future time mankind will be at peace with animal kind as per Isaiah 11:6-9; Isaiah 65:25.

I am Not trying to overwhelm you with verses, but merely posting where they are found as to what a true or genuine Christian would believe and would practice in behavior.
I find John 13:34-35 is about behavior, behavior in showing self-sacrificing love for others.
Again, thank you for your reply, and I hope you can take into consideration what I posted because I do have your best interests at heart.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

@URAVIP2ME the reason I called you out is your statement about 'the nations murder and such', which is RIDICULOUS- to imply other nations are on the whole less moral than Jews and Christians. You can't just say that, not knowing the degree to which these other cultures discussed morality. You didn't even imply less moral. You implied murderous and straight up evil.

I am sorry that what I posted came across as murderous and straight up evil. I was Not trying to say less moral.
God is Not partial, and wants the gospel ' good news '(Not bad news) proclaimed world wide - Matthew 24:14.
When we pick up the newspaper or hear the news we read about the 'bad news' of men's kingdoms or governments.
In Scripture we read about the 'good news' of God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 in the hands of Christ Jesus for a thousand years. According to Revelation 22:2 there will be healing for earth's nations ( plural ' nations ') that means ALL nations of Earth. God promised a righteous man named Abraham that ALL nations of Earth will be blessed at Genesis 22:18. Blessed with the benefit of healing. Mankind on Earth will see the return on Earth of the Genesis ' tree of life' for the 'healing' of earth's nations. That is what the coming governing rule by Christ Jesus is about. Jesus, as king of God's kingdom government for a thousand years, will bring peace and health on Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Buddhist scriptures DO enunciate universal love very clearly in saying one should not kill, oppress, or 'torment' any sentient beings. Many Christians can't even follow through on other people.

I like that you brought out 'many' because MANY is about who Jesus warns us at Matthew 7:21-23.
Jesus warns us that MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false to Jesus.
So, blame the MANY fake imitation ' weed/tares' Christians as per Matthew 7:20.

 

[Grandliseur]

I like how you say 'overruled'. To me that means something influences one's in-born conscience - Romans 2:15.
Some people's consciences are damaged literally by child abuse. Even babies which are kicked or punched while still in the womb can be born with a damaged conscience. That would also ' overrule ' their normal conscience.
I like too how you posted Ecclesiastes 8:9. Any thoughts about 1 Timothy 4:2 because there it mentions about people having their conscience seared with a hot iron. So, a person's conscience can become so calloused and unfeeling just as flesh can become calloused and unfeeling when branded by a hot branding iron.

I think not just personal deeds affect our consciences. I think life experiences also affect it. When a soldier has gone through the trenches in WWI and seen all the horror, dismemberment, happening to the enemy and fellow soldiers, some might come out of such experiences changed for life, coming to view life as differently so that killing could become for some - a way of solving easily big problems in civilian life. Generals, rulers, come to view other people's lives as a merchandise that they use to solve equations. Nothing personal need be felt for spending this currency of life to solve a problem over in Ukraine or Crimea, or Vietnam - just throw some thousands of dollars, oops, I meant 'soldiers' lives', at the problem and it is solved. That I spent 10000 lives, $. to solve it is just math. The conscience is dead.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....he (Jesus) doesn’t define love clearly enough....

Since when does love need to be ‘clearly defined’? Love is love. Would it ever be loving to hurt someone? Of course not!

Actually, I think Jesus was pretty clear: where he said to “love your enemy (Matthew 5:44)”, he said “if your enemy is thirsty, give him something to drink.“ That indicates positive action on our part!

But, as you stated, “Some of the most hateful people I’ve ever known were Christians”.
I think that’s on them, not Jesus! I started a thread once, along the lines of ‘Which religion has been most misrepresented by its followers?’ The majority of posters who responded said Christianity. (It’s not a fluke...there’s a reason for the fact.)

You also said: “He (Jesus) doesn’t talk about the way a society should behave.”

In a sense, you’re right; that’s because he didn’t want his followers to be a part of the worldly society.
But following his counsel actually benefits society as a whole....A society is made up of individuals. How they behave reflects on that society.
Still, he told us to be “not of (no part of) this world.” — John 15:19

A guideline that Christendom, for the most part, has forsaken.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Since when does love need to be ‘clearly defined’?

Since it's a meaningful thing people talk about.

In a sense, you’re right; that’s because he didn’t want his followers to be a part of the worldly society.

But following his counsel actually benefits society as a whole...

This is somewhat of a contradiction.

Look I wasn't saying Jesus didn't define love. I said didn't define clearly enough that some of his followers couldn't do it in his name. I'd be able to tell a hateful Buddhist straight out they're not being Buddhist, and have a number of non-ambiguous sorce quotes

 

[Buddha Dharma]

For those that claim to me they're loving and benevolent- here's my litmus test. I'd use this to determine a Buddhist's seriousness about the Dharma also:

In your own words- tell me exactly how you feel about homosexuals and loving them.

 

[Glaurung]

I think people get that idea from: that once a person chooses to be a priest, monk, nun they are forbidden to marry.
They have No choice about getting married once they become a priest, monk, nun, even pope, etc.

Marriage has never been forbidden to them, they have chosen of their own free will to undertake a celibate state of life dedicated to the service of God.

That is un-scriptural according to 1 Timothy 4:3. (that also includes abstaining from any meats is wrong)
In other words, if a person wants to abstain (fast) that is a private personal matter and Not to be done in public.

The people forbidding marriage and the eating of meat were Gnostic groups who taught that the physical creation was evil and could be transcended by some combination of asceticism and the acquisition of secret knowledge. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Christian monasticism, which far from rejecting the creation as an evil, instead seeks a closer relationship with God by a life of contemplation, prayer and the putting aside of all worldly affairs and attachments. Jesus explicitly demands this. Matthew 19:21-22, Matthew 10:37 and Matthew 19:12

You're cherry-picking one verse which when read in context isn't even saying what you claim. It's a warning about heretical groups, not a promotion of marriage as such nor is it denouncement of fasting which has always been a staple of Christian discipline from the earliest of times. Just because some are tempted by sanctimoniousness doesn't mean that all public practice is a bad thing. In fact communal practice is a Christian obligation.

Any comments about Matthew 6:16-18

That it's an irrelevance to the topic at hand. Monastics aren't hypocrites. They're the brave souls who take Jesus at His word about giving it all up.

 

[Lyndon]

To bad they couldn't give up young boys!!