Where did Good People go Before Christ Died on the Cross?

[Nakosis]

My father was a pastor for 10 years and later left Christianity. He read books for 4 hours per day throughout my childhood. He knew the Bible well and explained to me the answers to any questions I had. One question was the one I put as the title of this thread. My father gave me an answer. Throughout my life, I have listened to hundreds of sermons but this topic never came up. My question to Christians: What were you taught about this in your church? My question to others: What were you told when you asked this question? And did you ever ask it?

"Before Christ's death on the cross at Calvary, the souls of the dead went to Hades, a supernatural place somewhere in the heart of the earth. Hades has two compartments, the abode of the lost called in the Bible "torment," and the other side, the place of the saints of God called Paradise, and also referred to as "Abraham's Bosom."

When Jesus gave up His Spirit to death, He went into the Paradise side of Hades and "took captivity captive." This means He took all the souls of the saints who had died to that point to be with God the Father in Heaven. The Paradise side of Hades is now empty. The torment side today holds all souls of people who rejected Christ's salvation, and who have died to this point in human history. People who are saved by believing in Christ today, and who die, now go directly to God, the Father, in Heaven."

Before Jesus came, where did one's soul go after death?

On the paradise side of Hades I imagine them being served lattes with whip cream on top and provided complementary back rubs.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

You seem angry.Do not be upset by this please.Let us discuss in a good manner.No need for harshness.

Jesus obviously thought that he needed disciples to carry his message did he not? If not he would have not recruited them for the task.They carried on his teachings to many.

You state that maybe some people do not understand because of translations.It is more than that.The holy scriptures makes it very clear that the only way to obtain an accurate knowledge of the truth is by grace alone.It matters not how smart you think you are.

Ephesians 2:8New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Also,being smart has nothing to do with learning the truth in the holy scriptures.

Acts 4:13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

No anger here. You still had to Quote Paul and the author of Acts to demonstrate your point. Also the Gospel of Jesus required works, as he time and time again stated. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you the verses because you already know that. You do need enough intelligence to understand what you read, especially if you read the interlinear versions like I do. If some people need an interpreter to understand Jesus, then more power to them. I just happen not to.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

"Before Christ's death on the cross at Calvary, the souls of the dead went to Hades, a supernatural place somewhere in the heart of the earth. Hades has two compartments, the abode of the lost called in the Bible "torment," and the other side, the place of the saints of God called Paradise, and also referred to as "Abraham's Bosom."

And "Hades" is the New-Testament, Greek word for "Sheol," which is the Old Testament, ancient Hebrew word for the same place. It is the setting for the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16). As you said, this is where all human souls went prior to the Crucifixion. Until then, heaven was closed to mankind because sanctifying grace had been lost by Adam and Eve and their descendants. But neither did God condemn anyone to hell until they had the opportunity to hear the gospel of salvation. So immediately after his death on the cross, Jesus descended to the dead (Sheol) to preach it to them, as he said he would:

John 5:25-29 - Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

And as Saint Peter said he did:

1 Peter 4:6 - For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Not everyone who was in the bad part of Sheol at that time went to hell. There was a purifying fire there for one thing, and the particular judgements of souls in Sheol did not occur until after Jesus spoke to them. That would indicate that forgiveness and salvation were still available.

Sheol will continue to exist until the Final Judgment. It is still in use as a place where saved souls are purified before entering into heaven, but now we call it purgatory. It still has different levels for various stages of purification as required. They range from very bad to pleasant, except for the separation from God. The more pure a soul becomes, the more unbearable it is for him or her to be separated from the Creator.

 

[Nakosis]

Sheol will continue to exist until the Final Judgment. It is still in use as a place where saved souls are purified before entering into heaven, but now we call it purgatory. It still has different levels for various stages of purification as required. They range from very bad to pleasant, except for the separation from God. The more pure a soul becomes, the more unbearable it is for him or her to be separated from the Creator.

Yes, I'm not a believer, but the Catholics always seemed to have a specific answer for this. I don't know where Protestants derive their answers from but they are usually not consistent.

This idea that they remain in the grave... If that's true lets dig em up and get them out of there.

If you dig up a grave all you're going to find is a decomposing corpse or dust.

 

[Nada]

No anger here. You still had to Quote Paul and the author of Acts to demonstrate your point. Also the Gospel of Jesus required works, as he time and time again stated. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you the verses because you already know that. You do need enough intelligence to understand what you read, especially if you read the interlinear versions like I do. If some people need an interpreter to understand Jesus, then more power to them. I just happen not to.

The author of Acts was Luke by the way.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

The author of Acts was Luke by the way.

The author of Luke is unknown, just like the other gospels. Historically, textual, and linguistically, Luke was probably written by a Hellenistic writer at the end of the first century. Written between 80 and 120 CE, Luke would have been too old to write those two books. Luke-Acts was also revised up until the end of the second century CE. I don't use church dogma when I research the history of the NT. I get my facts from the experts in that field -historians. Joestories has a PHD in theology. Ask her.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Yes, I'm not a believer, but the Catholics always seemed to have a specific answer for this. I don't know where Protestants derive their answers from but they are usually not consistent.

This idea that they remain in the grave... If that's true lets dig em up and get them out of there.

If you dig up a grave all you're going to find is a decomposing corpse or dust.

Well, I'm very impressed. For someone who is not a believer, you certainly have a good understanding of this topic -- in fact, better than many believers.

 

[Nada]

The author of Luke is unknown, just like the other gospels. Historically, textual, and linguistically, Luke was probably written by a Hellenistic writer at the end of the first century. Written between 80 and 120 CE, Luke would have been too old to write those two books. Luke-Acts was also revised up until the end of the second century CE. I don't use church dogma when I research the history of the NT. I get my facts from the experts in that field -historians. Joestories has a PHD in theology. Ask her.

I do not agree.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

I do not agree.

It is simply a fact. Would you like confirmation of the fact or do you want to give me your evidence to support your theory that Luke-Acts was written by someone called Luke the Evangelist?

 

[Nada]

It is simply a fact. Would you like confirmation of the fact or do you want to give me your evidence to support your theory that Luke-Acts was written by someone called Luke the Evangelist?

I do not agree.Sorry.The Luke that wrote the book of Luke and Acts was a physician.

 

[Unification]

You are free to have any opinion you want about the meaning of verses in the Bible....but just making claims based on one verse doesn't prove anything in my mind. Can you provide other extra-Biblical sources that support your view that "Jews thought Jesus was a reincarnated prophet"? If it was a common belief in Bible times, why is there no detailed teaching about reincarnation mentioned in the Bible? I would like to start a thread on reincarnation actually but for now, I've got a lot of unfinished discussions to address, before I can open it.

Unprofitable citing bible verses.

Something to think about, a hypothetical: a 50 year old wicked human was murdered by another 50 year old wicked human. The murderer lives to be 90, and was wicked up until the final year of his life at age 89 where he found "Christ" and repented of all of his sins. What happens to both of them upon physical death?

 

[Forever_Catholic]

The author of Luke is unknown, just like the other gospels. Historically, textual, and linguistically, Luke was probably written by a Hellenistic writer at the end of the first century. Written between 80 and 120 CE, Luke would have been too old to write those two books. Luke-Acts was also revised up until the end of the second century CE. I don't use church dogma when I research the history of the NT. I get my facts from the experts in that field -historians. Joestories has a PHD in theology. Ask her.

Or more likely, Saint Luke did write the Gospel of Luke and Acts of the Apostles (which were originally all one book). His authorship was confirmed by scholars who were much closer to the source than any contemporary experts could be. Saint Jerome (347-420), for one -- he was a brilliant linguist and scholar who devoted considerable time, effort, travel, and study to assemble all the Hebrew and Greek texts that he translated into Latin to produce the Vulgate Bible. Luke's authorship was also verified by Saint Eusebius of Caesarea (about 260-340), bishop, writer, and scholar of the Biblical canon

As a native speaker of Greek, disciple of Saint Paul, friend of Saint Mary, etc, how does he not match up historically, textually, and linguistically with these books?

They are his work, even if possibly a compilation of his work by someone else.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

I do not agree.Sorry.The Luke that wrote the book of Luke and Acts was a physician.

Thats your evidence, facts, and or argument? This is the debate section. Perhaps you should go to the Christianity Dir where you don't have to deal with historical facts and textual research and other tiny details like that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My father was a pastor for 10 years and later left Christianity. He read books for 4 hours per day throughout my childhood. He knew the Bible well and explained to me the answers to any questions I had. One question was the one I put as the title of this thread. My father gave me an answer. Throughout my life, I have listened to hundreds of sermons but this topic never came up. My question to Christians: What were you taught about this in your church? My question to others: What were you told when you asked this question? And did you ever ask it?

Where did anybody go before Christ died ?

Those of Hebrews 11:13 and Hebrews 11:39 have Not yet received the resurrection promise. Promise of an earthly resurrection.

John 3:13 says No one ascended before Jesus.

Jesus made a covenant contract with some - Luke 12:32; Luke 22:29-30 - who were faithful baptized followers of Jesus.
They would have a first or earlier resurrection than the majority of dead mankind - Revelation 20:6
Those called to heaven are resurrected first from death's sleep - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
They will serve in heaven as kings and priests over earthly subjects or citizens of God's kingdom - Revelation 5:9-10
Those who died before Jesus died are still ' asleep in the grave ' until Jesus begins his 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth when Jesus, as King of God's Kingdom, will have subjects on earth from sea to sea in that millennial day.- Psalms 72:8

Because the majority of dead mankind are still unconscious in the grave - John 11:24 - is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wouldn't they go to the same place the Christian dead go now? The grave. There to await resurrection.

However, please keep in mind that ' some Christians ' have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; Luke 12:32 - before the population in general - John 3:13 - who await the future resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15 - back to healthy physical life on earth taking place during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth as king of God's Kingdom for a thousand years. 1 Corinthians 15:24

People like those of Hebrews chapter 11 might serve as ' princes ' on earth.- Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1
Even King David ( who is still asleep in the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 ) might be a prince - Ezekiel 34:24

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A bunch of them came out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem when Jesus died. Where are they now and how come their story isn't written anywhere outside the Bible?
Matthew 27: 52, 53

The earthquake simply exposed corpses (bodies). Remember No one would be resurrected before God would resurrect Jesus.
So, it was the living people who came out of the graves ( cemetery ) and appeared to many.
Those called to heaven would be the first ( or first fruits ) to be awakened from death's sleep - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus dying on the cross made no difference what so ever, nothing has changed, people still do what they always have done.

Nothing has changed simply because Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth has Not begun.
We are now being asked to repent - 2 Peter 3:9 - so that we can be part of Jesus' governing over earth for a thousand years.
That is the purpose or why the international proclaiming of God's Kingdom - Matthew 24:14 - is being globally carried out today.

 

[JoStories]

Wow! No one is trying to do anything like that.Paul was a disciple of Jesus.Paul is responsible for 14 of the NT 's writings.
There are more to words than just what you read.Jesus also spoke in parables and used symbolic language.There are many writings in the holy scriptures that mean something other than what is being read.

For instance in the book of Revelation it speaks of a beast coming out of the sea.Rev 13:1 If it is as you say then one would literally think it means an animal.Of course there is more to it than that.It actually is referring to a governments or kingdoms.World empires.Just like in the book of Daniel where it mentions the hairy goat.It speaks of one of these great powers.This is speaking of Alexander the Great, and later his four generals, that break up the Kingdom of Greece into four parts,after the death of Alexander, that eventually transform into the Roman Empire.Daniel 8:21


When it mentions waters in the book of Revelation, it is referring to many peoples.If someone just reads that passage they would literally think a beast would come out of literal water.

Revelation 17:15 Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.

So, we can clearly see that words mean more than what we read.We must investigate and read carefully.A thorough study is required in order to get an accurate knowledge of the truth.




Jesus was clearly speaking to his anointed followers when he mentions that they will be with him in heaven.Heaven is not for all.Only those chosen by God to reign with Jesus Christ in heaven.



Ps.You mentioned that the words of Jesus are simple.Many did not understand Jesus when he preached.Many left him because they thought he was crazy.

John 6:60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"


John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.


Not everyone will understand.It must be granted you by God this information.It is by way of grace that one comes to understand the word of God.


John 6:63-65. …63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

What I underlined is simply not true. Paul was never a disciple of Jesus. He had an hallucination and thought he was but he never knew Christ. Furthermore, there is not enough evidence that he wrote any of the books of the Bible, just as we don't truly know who wrote any of them at all. You are free to believe that if you wish but to state it as absolute fact is erroneous.

 

[Neo Deist]

Where did Good People go Before Christ Died on the Cross?

The same place as everyone else...the grave. They still go there to this day, good or bad.

 

[Neo Deist]

I believe that Christians can go directly to Heaven after they die. I believe the rapture is for Christians still living when Christ returns.

Name the Bible verse that states this.

While you are looking for it (you won't find it) read the Book of Revelation and pay close attention to Rev 20:11-15. Then move on over to Rev 21:1-8. There you will find that no one goes to heaven...they go to new earth if they pass judgment.