Where did Jesus go?

[savagewind]

I do not care about the Galilean movement. Should I? Why? So I can use it to put together a puzzle? It is called "the wisdom of the world". If I believe Jesus (I do) I would not hold fast to the wisdom of the world ie the Galilean movement.

 

[savagewind]

OK John the Baptist you know? What does he say about heaven please? Me and the Jehovah's Witnesses have a disagreement that needs settling.

 

[savagewind]

I don't know what Jesus and John taught. I suspect Jesus is reasonable. Is he?

 

[savagewind]

It is not reasonable for anyone to say "I am your leader. You will never have another leader. I promise to bring you to the land of milk and honey. But it is YOUR job to not be led astray". Huh? One leader doing nothing. All the followers of the one leader on high alert for being swept away.

That's crazy. But that is what the Bibles say.

 

[savagewind]

Why would the leader lead the people to a place they could be lost? And what kind of a leader is it that says to those following "be careful you are not lost". But....but.....

Is Jesus a leader? Is he THE Leader? Why does he say "take care you are not misled"?

For real a person can be misled at any time. Even while sleeping and especially when one just wakes up a person is vunerable. So Jesus saying "take care you are not misled" means high alert all of the time.

But

If he said "take care you do not mislead" it is only directed to those teaching when they are teaching which is not most of the time but only some of the time. Also it is a warning to "KNOW" Jesus because HE is the great teacher.

 

[steeltoes]

What do you know of the real Jesus ?
What do you know about the Galilean movement when he was alive?
What do you know about John the Baptist and what he taught Jesus?
How do you know what John taught and what Jesus taught?

We can't know of a real Jesus, we only have the gospel fictions and whatever it was Paul was on about.

 

[savagewind]

We can't know of a real Jesus, we only have the gospel fictions and whatever it was Paul was on about.

Bless you! You are right.

 

[`mud]

Wut ?
~
'mud

 

[outhouse]

Bless you! You are right.

That was my only point.

We only know what the Hellenist wrote about him.

I study this topic so I can best figure out what he may or may not have said.

You may be right with what he may not have said. Trying to say he said something, there is little that is certain.

 

[outhouse]

Why would the leader lead the people to a place they could be lost? And what kind of a leader is it that says to those following "be careful you are not lost". But....but.....

.

Context is key.

Was it allegory? metaphor? part of a parable?

 

[Robert.Evans]

WHY?


It is not historical in this context, and carries no credibility dealing with history.

This is a religious forum, what would you suggest he use

 

[Robert.Evans]

I think your in error here.

There was no one flock in Pauls time.

The last time there was one flock was in Galilee.

After Jesus death the movement failed in Galilean Judaism. In the Hellenistic communities, there were many different flocks, so many so it can only be described as diverse, not othodox.

Of course there was a flock

 

[Robert.Evans]

I believe you are right on the money Outhouse. I suspect that the origin of the Joseph of Arimathea story is found in Isaiah 53:9. It is contained in Isaiah's fourth suffering servant song (the servant is Israel, not a man). It reads "They made his grave with the wicked and his tomb with the rich, although he had done no violence and there was no deceit in his mouth".

This is just me speculating but I believe that Mark (or his source) was actively searching out OT messianic proof texts to build a compelling narrative which was grounded in the OT. In Isaiah 53:9 he found some. Jesus is indeed given "a grave with the wicked", that is the robbers or lestai he is crucified with on golgotha. His "tomb with the rich" was provided by Joseph of Arimathea, a rich member of the Sanhedrin (note that Matthew 27:57 calls him a "disciple of Jesus" no less!) My point is that the gospel authors created this Joseph of Arimathea to fulfill Isaiah 53:9's requirements of the suffering servant. Also, Jesus is depicted as passive and non violent as Isaiah requires of him. The Jospeh of Arimathea story can be dismissed because Jesus was the leader of the "poor" or ebionite movement and had a loathing of the wealthy people and it is unlikely that a hated rich man (remember the camel, eye of a needle saying) would either assist a messianic zealot assaulting the temple or offer to bury him after his Crucifixion by the Romans for sedition in his own rock cut tomb! Sorry, it smells like a fiction to me. It is a good story but it runs into numerous historical stumbling blocks.

These things are spiritually discerned. How is you think you will understand.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What do I know of the real Jesus? Is there a real Jesus? Let's say there is and what we know about him is written. God is love and Jesus reflects God. Love would not put friends on constant duty to beware.

As I can't frubal, I will mention. Good, now I see the idea of "rest" that you mentioned earlier

 

[Robert.Evans]

Why would the leader lead the people to a place they could be lost? And what kind of a leader is it that says to those following "be careful you are not lost". But....but.....

Is Jesus a leader? Is he THE Leader? Why does he say "take care you are not misled"?

For real a person can be misled at any time. Even while sleeping and especially when one just wakes up a person is vunerable. So Jesus saying "take care you are not misled" means high alert all of the time.

But

If he said "take care you do not mislead" it is only directed to those teaching when they are teaching which is not most of the time but only some of the time. Also it is a warning to "KNOW" Jesus because HE is the great teacher.

That is a very deep and insightful piece. Interesting!

 

[Robert.Evans]

We can't know of a real Jesus, we only have the gospel fictions and whatever it was Paul was on about.

ha ha, whatever 'Paul was on about'??? And you have the title of "Christian"! And you call the gospels "fictions". I don't know where you are on all this, honestly I don't

 

[Robert.Evans]

Bless you! You are right.

Don't agree

 

[savagewind]

Don't agree

But without the gospels we would not know Jesus. Without the letters attributed to Paul, John, James and Peter we would not understand Jesus. Without the Hebrew Scriptures we might not love him. I think it is what he meant by this;

We can't know of a real Jesus, we only have the gospel fictions and whatever it was Paul was on about.

I think it is a dangerous thing to say "I KNOW" (but OK to say it to yourself perhaps) I do not know the man Jesus. I believe him. Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29)

ps. I try to encourage all contibutions. You do not know who you might be discouraging when you dismiss a post as pure nonsense. I try not to do that except with the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I know them*, so I think it is OK**.

*I was one

**I am not talking about my post.

 

[savagewind]

I see the problem. He called them fiction which probably makes his post worth dimissing as fiction. To be able to call it truely fiction is to show us he knows but he doesn't know. You are right again Robert.Evans. I am sorry. And I don't agree with the post but I did find something in it to agree with! 'Alls well that ends well' Which probably isn't right either. It isn't. You know it. I don't believe in all's well that ends well.

 

[`mud]

Letters to Paul ?
I missed something here, I'll have to re-read.
~
'mud