Where Do You Put Your Faith?

[j1i]

Everyone wants to live and enjoy life right? Who doesn't enjoy eating an apple, or mango, or grape, or....? The things on this earth that can satisfy man, are almost endless, and the beauty about is is that we never tire of those things - They always seem fresh, and the experience always seem different.

Yet, the reality is, we age, and the body loses its vigor, the taste buds, lose their sensitivity... but the brain still seem to desire these things. Then death end it all.

Scientists are promising to fix that - resurrect the dead - end the aging process - end death.
The Bible says God, the creator, promises the same.

Where do you put your faith, your trust, your confidence, your hope...
In the "big magic man in the sky", or the "puny dreamers on this earth"?

Why?

I love figs
My father commanded me to eat figs
I saw in a dream that I had dry figs and people gathered around her, sarcastically saying that she would die

I poured water on it and she grew and grew to the sky and from that day I ate the fresh figs every day throughout the year

about the faith
I thought Islam was a religion followed by a normal class in global societies
But I was surprised that many Christian scholars became Muslims
for example
Jeffrey Lang

Yusuf Estes
Yusuf Estes - Wikipedia

This reinforced my conviction that there are mistakes in Christianity or questions that have no answers

good luck in your life

 

[Podo]

Scientists and doctors cure and treat illnesses with more success than any holy person in all of human history. No matter what you believe, this is an observable fact. I'll go with the doctor's orders over the religious leader's when it comes to medical advice.

 

[nPeace]

I love figs
My father commanded me to eat figs
I saw in a dream that he had dry figs and people gathered around her, sarcastically saying that she would die

I poured water on it and I grew and grew to the sky and from that day I ate the fresh figs every day throughout the year

about the faith
I thought Islam was a religion followed by a normal class in global societies
But I was surprised that many Christian scholars became Muslims
for example
Jeffrey Lang

Yusuf Estes
Yusuf Estes - Wikipedia

This reinforced my conviction that there are mistakes in Christianity or questions that have no answers

good luck in your life

Thanks.
When you say mistakes in Christianity, do you mean mistake in what Jesus taught, according to the Bible, or do you find there are problems with the practices of Christendom - so called Christianity.

If the later, I agree, because those practices are not in line with Jesus' teachings, or way of life.

 

[nPeace]

Scientists and doctors cure and treat illnesses with more success than any holy person in all of human history. No matter what you believe, this is an observable fact. I'll go with the doctor's orders over the religious leader's when it comes to medical advice.

Well I am glad to hear that. I do the same. In fact the Bible encourages this practical advice.

Healthy people do not need a physician, but those who are ill do.

Matthew 9:12

 

[Sir Doom]

In myself, where it will do the most good.

 

[nPeace]

You can make me "not an atheist" by simply providing convincing evidence to support your claims.

No. I can't make you not be atheist. In the same way you can't make me be or not be a politician.
What claim did you want convincing evidence for?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I love figs
My father commanded me to eat figs
I saw in a dream that he had dry figs and people gathered around her, sarcastically saying that she would die

I poured water on it and I grew and grew to the sky and from that day I ate the fresh figs every day throughout the year

about the faith
I thought Islam was a religion followed by a normal class in global societies
But I was surprised that many Christian scholars became Muslims
for example
Jeffrey Lang

Yusuf Estes
Yusuf Estes - Wikipedia

This reinforced my conviction that there are mistakes in Christianity or questions that have no answers

good luck in your life

And one could find Muslims that became Christians. That proves nothing. That people change faith is not evidence for the other faiths.

I wonder how Islam would be affected if they got rid of the laws condemning "apostates" to death that exists in many Muslim countries . Those immoral laws are counterproductive since they imply that the religion is wrong. A religion that is correct would have no need for such laws.

 

[nPeace]

In myself, where it will do the most good.

I know what you are saying. Most people use the expression "Believe in yourself".
What do you think of this philosophy?

 

[Milton Platt]

No. I can't make you not be atheist. In the same way you can't make me be or not be a politician.
What claim did you want convincing evidence for?

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity of any kind. My lack of belief is due to unconvincing evidence that a deity exists. If you can provide concrete, empirical evidence of a scientific nature that demonstrates that your god, or any god, exists, that would do it. Being a politician is not predicated on belief in a claim. A politician is merely a job description.

 

[nPeace]

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity of any kind. My lack of belief is due to unconvincing evidence that a deity exists. If you can provide concrete, empirical evidence of a scientific nature that demonstrates that your god, or any god, exists, that would do it. Being a politician is not predicated on belief in a claim. A politician is merely a job description.

No it won't.
I believe the same principle would apply, if I said you can't make me be, or not be a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.
A person becomes what they are, - not because someone made them that way, but because they chose to become, or allowed themselves to be influenced by...

So our becoming convinced of something is not the end of the road.
I may be convinced that something is true, or right, but I still have the choice to accept it, or reject it, admit it, or deny it.

Is that not true?

Could you explain what is

concrete, empirical evidence of a scientific nature

Perhaps you can give me an example of such.

 

[Milton Platt]

No it won't.
I believe the same principle would apply, if I said you can't make me be, or not be a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Satanist, etc.
A person becomes what they are, - not because someone made them that way, but because they chose to become, or allowed themselves to be influenced by...

So our becoming convinced of something is not the end of the road.
I may be convinced that something is true, or right, but I still have the choice to accept it, or reject it, admit it, or deny it.

Is that not true?

Could you explain what is
Perhaps you can give me an example of such.

No, actually, that is not true. If you know something to be factually true it would be irrational to not believe it. It is another question in this case whether one would decide to worship the thing. Don't confuse the two. If you can provide sound empirical evidence, such as we have for most everything in the natural world around us, then I would be as apt to believe in the god as I would be to believe that the sun comes up in the east or that the moon orbits the earth.



An example would be holding a rock in your hand at some distance above the ground then releasing it.

Qualitative:

• The rock has mass
• When released, the rock falls to the ground.
• It took some time to reach the ground

Quantitative:

• The rock has a mass of 150g.
• When released,the rock falls on a perpendicular path to the ground.
• It took 1.5 seconds to reach the ground.

To a casual observer, both sets of observations are similar, to the scientist, the second set is far more valuable as they can be tested in another experiment and either verified or disputed.

What experiments can be done to demonstrate the reality of your god?

 

[Sir Doom]

I know what you are saying. Most people use the expression "Believe in yourself".
What do you think of this philosophy?

I think this man is more interested in being righteous than right.

 

[j1i]

Thanks.
When you say mistakes in Christianity, do you mean mistake in what Jesus taught, according to the Bible, or do you find there are problems with the practices of Christendom - so called Christianity.

If the later, I agree, because those practices are not in line with Jesus' teachings, or way of life.

Jesus gave the message of God correctly
But people have misinterpreted the teachings

Such as one who gets a driver's license and agrees to drive the car safely but many are doing irregular and simpler example of race tracks

Cars are vehicles for transportation only and not for entertainment

As well as religion, things have been created for spiritual entertainment

The idea of the Trinity is not even mentioned in the Bible but is a study of geometric calculations
As an example

The triglycerides are found in chemistry such as oxygen and are present in the mathematics of pyramids

The number three of the numbers you rely on as an example
three-pronged fish spear (tridents)

I am not convinced of the idea of the Trinity
How does God grow and grow in the belly of a pregnant woman

While Mary is not promoted to divinity, she is the one who sponsored and nurtured God

This idea is not accepted by any logic

that why I don't accept the trinity

As a Muslim
If I do not believe in Jesus (prophet) and the Gospel
I will not be a real Muslim

As a Muslim
If I do not believe in Jesus and the Gospel
I will not be a real Muslim

We believe in what was revealed to us, and in what was revealed to you; and our God and your God is One; and to Him we are submissive."

with respect (^_^)

When I saw the dry fig tree in our house
She would surely die and people would gather around her in mockery and joy because she would die
I came with a jug of water and poured water
And it became green, and it grew to heaven
So I have a sincere faith with God

 

[j1i]

And one could find Muslims that became Christians. That proves nothing. That people change faith is not evidence for the other faiths.

I wonder how Islam would be affected if they got rid of the laws condemning "apostates" to death that exists in many Muslim countries . Those immoral laws are counterproductive since they imply that the religion is wrong. A religion that is correct would have no need for such laws.

There is freedom to choose religion so those who leave Islam live among us
My father was a non-Muslim and I was trying to convince him of Islam but he was an atheist and he also laughed at the Trinity's belief in Christianity
He says it's like children's stories

There is no human punishment in the quran for those who want to reject Islam if they are peaceful
If they want to fight as a war, then they must defend themselves

The laws of execution are human laws and they are found by Christians as the Inquisition

Do not forget that the war between France and Britain was 100 years old

World War I and the Second World War were horrific and led to famine and disease
I hoped that Christians would be part of the human renaissance
This was achieved when Christians realized that it was difficult to change the faith of others


I am not here to spread hatred and differences

We must be his brothers and live in peace and love

We will not be a believer if you hold the grudge against others
Jesus is your teacher and my teacher, and he is the merciful prophet who spent his life calling for good deeds

 

[j1i]

Scientists and doctors cure and treat illnesses with more success than any holy person in all of human history. No matter what you believe, this is an observable fact. I'll go with the doctor's orders over the religious leader's when it comes to medical advice.

Well I am glad to hear that. I do the same. In fact the Bible encourages this practical advice.
Matthew 9:12

The profession of medicine is an independent profession such as carpentry and sewing

The preacher's profession (The religious people) is to help people improve their behavior and moral performance in the way that suits us as a human race

This is through divine teachings through the prophets and the righteous

We are an advanced human race and we should not lower our levels to animals

I do not mean insult animals and I do not mean honoring human

Therefore, the religious preacher does a noble humanitarian work to raise your dignity

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is freedom to choose religion so those who leave Islam live among us
My father was a non-Muslim and I was trying to convince him of Islam but he was an atheist and he also laughed at the Trinity's belief in Christianity
He says it's like children's stories

There is no human punishment in the quran for those who want to reject Islam if they are peaceful
If they want to fight as a war, then they must defend themselves

The laws of execution are human laws and they are found by Christians as the Inquisition

Do not forget that the war between France and Britain was 100 years old

World War I and the Second World War were horrific and led to famine and disease
I hoped that Christians would be part of the human renaissance
This was achieved when Christians realized that it was difficult to change the faith of others


I am not here to spread hatred and differences

We must be his brothers and live in peace and love

We will not be a believer if you hold the grudge against others
Jesus is your teacher and my teacher, and he is the merciful prophet who spent his life calling for good deeds

No, the laws of execution are Muslim laws. Here is a link to part of a Wiki article that explains this:

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia

And there are thirteen countries that execute for apostacy, all Muslim countries and the only religion that one is killed for leaving is Islam:

The countries where apostasy is punishable by death

Your country may not be this barbaric, but the only countries that do kill people for killing a religion are Muslim countries.

 

[j1i]

No, the laws of execution are Muslim laws. Here is a link to part of a Wiki article that explains this:

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia

And there are thirteen countries that execute for apostacy, all Muslim countries and the only religion that one is killed for leaving is Islam:

The countries where apostasy is punishable by death

Your country may not be this barbaric, but the only countries that do kill people for killing a religion are Muslim countries.

do not worry
These are unfortunately allegations and not a fact
Is the jurisprudence to find strong sentences against the apostate of Islam
It was reported that Muhammad ordered the killing of a person who converted from Islam and this provision was for one person only because he was planning to kill the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Accordingly, some agreed to kill every apostate, and this is not the religion of Islam, but the rule of diligent scientists
The Koran indicates a clear indication of non-killing in saying

read this
O you who believe! When believing women come to you emigrating, test them. God is Aware of their faith. And if you find them to be faithful, do not send them back to the unbelievers. They are not lawful for them, nor are they lawful for them. But give them what they have spent. You are not at fault if you marry them, provided you give them their compensation. And do not hold on to ties with unbelieving women, but demand what you have spent, and let them demand what they have spent. This is the rule of God; He rules among you. God is Knowing and Wise.

This is a clear sign to accept that those who reject Islam have the freedom to go

(^_^)

These provisions are closer to being political to ensure security and safety because of fear of treason

Executions and killings in Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Judaism have been carried out historically and today by some indirectly or directly.

good luck

 

[Subduction Zone]

do not worry
These are unfortunately allegations and not a fact
Is the jurisprudence to find strong sentences against the apostate of Islam
It was reported that Muhammad ordered the killing of a person who converted from Islam and this provision was for one person only because he was planning to kill the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him
Accordingly, some agreed to kill every apostate, and this is not the religion of Islam, but the rule of diligent scientists
The Koran indicates a clear indication of non-killing in saying

read this
O you who believe! When believing women come to you emigrating, test them. God is Aware of their faith. And if you find them to be faithful, do not send them back to the unbelievers. They are not lawful for them, nor are they lawful for them. But give them what they have spent. You are not at fault if you marry them, provided you give them their compensation. And do not hold on to ties with unbelieving women, but demand what you have spent, and let them demand what they have spent. This is the rule of God; He rules among you. God is Knowing and Wise.

This is a clear sign to accept that those who reject Islam have the freedom to go

(^_^)

These provisions are closer to being political to ensure security and safety because of fear of treason

Executions and killings in Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Judaism have been carried out historically and today by some indirectly or directly.

good luck

Hardly. You need to find a reliable source that supports your claims. Not a mere quotation taken out of context that does not deal with apostasy at all. In case you did not know it apostasy is the act of leaving the faith by a member of that faith. Your verse dealt with how one deals with non-Muslims, not apostates. Here is one source that quotes from both the Quran and the Hadith and Sira that support killing apostates:

Apostasy in Islam


The fact is that the list that linked in my earlier post was generous. With a broader interpretation of the laws of countries the number of Muslims countries with death as a penalty for apostasy rises to 23:

Laws Criminalizing Apostasy

These laws are not widely enforced, but there are modern examples:

Abdirahman Ahmed - Wikipedia
Sadeq Mallallah - Wikipedia

This one is rather disturbing, though it was a death sentence, I do not know if it was carried out:

Sudan death penalty reignites Islam apostasy debate

I will grant that scholars debate the interpretation of the Quran in regards to applying the death penalty to apostates. But it is ridiculous to deny the obvious. Some Muslim countries have the death penalty for apostasy and have applied it to individuals in the recent past. It is a "No True Scotsman" fallacy to deny those were Muslims that made and used those laws.

 

[j1i]

Hardly. You need to find a reliable source that supports your claims. Not a mere quotation taken out of context that does not deal with apostasy at all. In case you did not know it apostasy is the act of leaving the faith by a member of that faith. Your verse dealt with how one deals with non-Muslims, not apostates. Here is one source that quotes from both the Quran and the Hadith and Sira that support killing apostates:

Apostasy in Islam


The fact is that the list that linked in my earlier post was generous. With a broader interpretation of the laws of countries the number of Muslims countries with death as a penalty for apostasy rises to 23:

Laws Criminalizing Apostasy

These laws are not widely enforced, but there are modern examples:

Abdirahman Ahmed - Wikipedia
Sadeq Mallallah - Wikipedia

This one is rather disturbing, though it was a death sentence, I do not know if it was carried out:

Sudan death penalty reignites Islam apostasy debate

I will grant that scholars debate the interpretation of the Quran in regards to applying the death penalty to apostates. But it is ridiculous to deny the obvious. Some Muslim countries have the death penalty for apostasy and have applied it to individuals in the recent past. It is a "No True Scotsman" fallacy to deny those were Muslims that made and used those laws.

When I participated in this topic and i developed Christian scholars who entered Islam did not enter because the threat
They were free

This is My goal was to participate

But you respond and want to attack Islam as a hard religion


Cruelty does not mean that religion is wrong
When the son sins, the mother defends him, while the father hardens to learn

I saw in my dream that I was watering the fig tree and living
While Jesus cursed the fig tree
Does this mean I am better than Jesus?

If, according to your words, Jesus should declare defeat and follow my instructions because I have succeeded in dealing with the fig tree

Islam is a true religion
Whether he was cruel or merciful

God will be punished unbelievers and idolaters in the fire forever
Is God cruel and not merciful? Does this mean that this is a wrong God?

Your posts are only your attempt to distort the image of Islam
There is no human purpose and it is a result of disappointment and failure

My respect for Christianity will stop mentioning negative things about Christianity, such as the Crusades. The successful person does not offend others because he trusts himself. Success is to climb without trampling on the backs of others.

This is proof that god in islam is more mercy than christians

http://www.ipci.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Concept-of-Gods-Mercy-in-Islam-and-Christianity.pdf

With respect
GOD bless you brother
Amen

 

[Subduction Zone]

When I participated in this topic and i developed Christian scholars who entered Islam did not enter because the threat
They were free

This is My goal was to participate

But you respond and want to attack Islam as a hard religion


Cruelty does not mean that religion is wrong
When the son sins, the mother defends him, while the father hardens to learn

I saw in my dream that I was watering the fig tree and living
While Jesus cursed the fig tree
Does this mean I am better than Jesus?

If, according to your words, Jesus should declare defeat and follow my instructions because I have succeeded in dealing with the fig tree

Islam is a true religion
Whether he was cruel or merciful

God will be punished unbelievers and idolaters in the fire forever
Is God cruel and not merciful? Does this mean that this is a wrong God?

Your posts are only your attempt to distort the image of Islam
There is no human purpose and it is a result of disappointment and failure

My respect for Christianity will stop mentioning negative things about Christianity, such as the Crusades. The successful person does not offend others because he trusts himself. Success is to climb without trampling on the backs of others.

This is proof that god in islam is more mercy than christians

http://www.ipci.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Concept-of-Gods-Mercy-in-Islam-and-Christianity.pdf

With respect
GOD bless you brother
Amen

I am not "attacking Islam" at least no more than you are improperly defending it. I merely pointed out that following Islam does have its dark side. And yes, some Christians have become Muslims, and some Muslims have become Christians. That is not evidence for either faith. Why bring up that failed argument again?

And you do not seem to understand my words. If you want to claim that Islam is a "true religion" whatever that means, the burden of proof is upon you. I can show you examples of bad behavior by members of your religion. Much more so than almost any other religion today. And when it comes to religions it is best to remember that only one of them can be right, but all of them can be wrong.