Where Is Everybody? Where Are The Aliens?

[jonathan180iq]

Maybe civilizations destroy themselves before they get to the stars.

Conflict is certainly a hindrance to exploration on all the populated planets we know of...

 

[jonathan180iq]

it's fairly big, but mostly empty space, the size alone doesn't guarantee another Earth existing enywhere

List of exoplanets - Wikipedia
"As of 1 February 2018 there are 3,588 confirmed exoplanets..."

The frist exoplanet was discovered in 1992.
That's an average discovery rate of 132 per year.
We confirmed the existence of 1,300 in 2016 alone.

Ignorance does not equate to emptiness.

 

[james bond]

No it doesn't, and the Fermi Paradox is not a true paradox. It's a presupposition.

How about i give you one: Perhaps we have no evidence of any alien life because of relativity and the massive distances involved.

Which leads to my favourite explanation:

Human beings have not existed long enough.

Massive distances involved? Here's what SETI says about that.

"You can quibble about the speed of alien spacecraft, and whether they can move at 1 percent of the speed of light or 10 percent of the speed of light. It doesn't matter. You can argue about how long it would take for a new star colony to spawn colonies of its own. It still doesn't matter. Any halfway reasonable assumption about how fast colonization could take place still ends up with time scales that are profoundly shorter than the age of the Galaxy. It's like having a heated discussion about whether Spanish ships of the 16th century could heave along at two knots or twenty. Either way they could speedily colonize the Americas.

Consequently, scientists in and out of the SETI community have conjured up other arguments to deal with the conflict between the idea that aliens should be everywhere and our failure (so far) to find them. In the 1980s, dozens of papers were published to address the Fermi Paradox. They considered technical and sociological arguments for why the aliens weren't hanging out nearby. Some even insisted that there was no paradox at all: the reason we don't see evidence of extraterrestrials is because there aren't any."

Last I checked human beings have lived for around 7 million years. Modern humans have lived for 200K years. This according to atheist scientists. Why don't you meditate on this some more ha ha?

 

[ChristineM]

One of my arguments for evidence of God is aliens or the lack of extraterrestrial life. In other words, the Bible does not state that God created aliens.

Most of us know about Drake's Equation when discussing aliens. Yet, even if we acknowledge that Drake did not make his parameters correct in his equation, there has been enough time for SETI to have made extraterrestrial contact or aliens to have made contact with SETI. If there are intelligent alien civilizations and other planets like earth in the universe, then they would have the power to be able to fly and colonize the universe as we would. They should have been here if they possessed superior technology to ours. This lack of contact by extraterrestrials led Dr. Enrico Fermi to suddenly exclaim, "Where is Everybody?" during a lunch he was having with distinguished scientist colleagues in 1961 after a discussion about ETs.

A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence
[0810.2222] A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence

"Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

Is there obvious proof that we could be alone in the Galaxy? Enrico Fermi thought so -- and he was a pretty smart guy. Might he have been right?

It's been a hundred years since Fermi, an icon of physics, was born (and nearly a half-century since he died). He's best remembered for building a working atomic reactor in a squash court. But in 1950, Fermi made a seemingly innocuous lunchtime remark that has caught and held the attention of every SETI researcher since. (How many luncheon quips have you made with similar consequence?)

The remark came while Fermi was discussing with his mealtime mates the possibility that many sophisticated societies populate the Galaxy. They thought it reasonable to assume that we have a lot of cosmic company. But somewhere between one sentence and the next, Fermi's supple brain realized that if this was true, it implied something profound. If there are really a lot of alien societies, then some of them might have spread out.

Fermi realized that any civilization with a modest amount of rocket technology and an immodest amount of imperial incentive could rapidly colonize the entire Galaxy. Within ten million years, every star system could be brought under the wing of empire. Ten million years may sound long, but in fact it's quite short compared with the age of the Galaxy, which is roughly ten thousand million years. Colonization of the Milky Way should be a quick exercise.

So what Fermi immediately realized was that the aliens have had more than enough time to pepper the Galaxy with their presence. But looking around, he didn't see any clear indication that they're out and about. This prompted Fermi to ask what was (to him) an obvious question: "where is everybody?"

Fermi Paradox | SETI Institute

Thus, the Fermi Paradox provides more evidence of God.

In addition to this, we have found that fine tuning prohibits life on other planets unless they are finely tuned like earth. Has there been experiments done where they take earth creatures to see if they can survive on the moon? We already know they can survive in outer space, but can they survive and thrive on the moon? If they can't, then it's more evidence for the fine tuning theory.

Much confusion and misrepresentation.

Is this reception of alien radio signal?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

Here is a list of exoplanets located within the habitable zone of their sun
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets

Of course neither is evidence of alien life

The drake equation uses multiple variables with a wide possible range of input, some of hem completely unknown.

10million years is a drop in the ocean as far as the universe is concerned but a virtual infinity to a civilisation.

The Fermi paradox is not Fermi's (he never published on extraterrestrials) and it's not a paradox

Assumption based on presupposition, the Fermi paradox is in no way an evidence of a god, just an observation that aliens dont appear on every street corner.

How have we found fine tuning prohibits life on other planets? Has the creation institute been running interplanetary visits without telling anyone?

Ehmmm, moon, lack of atmosphere, specifically oxygen.


Edit : the links above to the wow signal and potentially habitable planets wiki dont work

Here they are again

Wow! signal - Wikipedia
List of potentially habitable exoplanets - Wikipedia

 

[james bond]

No it doesn’t. Assuming it is correct, it only provides evidence for a lack (though not necessarily complete absence) of intelligent lifeforms elsewhere in the universe. It doesn’t provide evidence for any form creator, let alone a specifically defined one.

No we haven’t. Scientists make some informed assumptions about the factors we think would be necessary for life to be able to develop on a planet, which in an element of which informs the Drake equation. We can’t test those assumptions and so can’t say whether they’re correct or not.

No it wouldn’t. The “fine tuning theory" relates to the ability of life to independently develop within a given environment, not the ability of life which developed in one environment to survive in another.

If no aliens, then it certainly puts a dent in alien creation. Also, what about evolution? If life happens everywhere on planets like earth, then where is everybody? Dr. Fermi asked a valid question. It's like Stephen Hawking asking why something is greater than nothing?

They should be here or have made contact already. I saw an old vintage Twilight Zone on "Where is Everybody?" Now, I know where Rod Serling got this episode.

What it does is it backs up the Bible. God didn't create any aliens. Neither did he intend for humans or other creatures to live on other planets which would be my next point. Even Elon Musk thinks we'll all die here due to an extinction event as a distinct possibility. Are we close to being multiplanetary? I don't think we can colonize the moon. That leaves Mars. Carl Sagan didn't think exploration of Mars for colonization was a good idea.

 

[jonathan180iq]

"You can quibble about the speed of alien spacecraft, and whether they can move at 1 percent of the speed of light or 10 percent of the speed of light. It doesn't matter. You can argue about how long it would take for a new star colony to spawn colonies of its own. It still doesn't matter. Any halfway reasonable assumption about how fast colonization could take place still ends up with time scales that are profoundly shorter than the age of the Galaxy. It's like having a heated discussion about whether Spanish ships of the 16th century could heave along at two knots or twenty. Either way they could speedily colonize the Americas.

Consequently, scientists in and out of the SETI community have conjured up other arguments to deal with the conflict between the idea that aliens should be everywhere and our failure (so far) to find them. In the 1980s, dozens of papers were published to address the Fermi Paradox. They considered technical and sociological arguments for why the aliens weren't hanging out nearby. Some even insisted that there was no paradox at all: the reason we don't see evidence of extraterrestrials is because there aren't any."

So, you still just reading that one article...?

Last I checked human beings have lived for around 7 million years. Modern humans have lived for 200K years. This according to atheist scientists. Why don't you meditate on this some more ha ha?

Perhaps you should really consider what it is that you're saying...?

• If an advanced civilization was doing well 200,000 years ago, could early Man have known about it?
• If they went extinct anytime before our last 100 years or so, how would we know they ever existed?
• Do we currently have the ability to communicate, or locate, an intelligent species in its infancy?
• Even if man was only 6,000 years old, would that change anything in these scenarios?

I get that you're trying to make a joke. But you're actually agreeing with everything everyone is saying here...

 

[james bond]

Much confusion and misrepresentation.

Is this reception of alien radio signal?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

Here is a list of exoplanets located within the habitable zone of their sun
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets

Of course neither is evidence of alien life

The drake equation uses multiple variables with a wide possible range of input, some of hem completely unknown.

10million years is a drop in the ocean as far as the universe is concerned but a virtual infinity to a civilisation.

The Fermi paradox is not Fermi's (he never published on extraterrestrials) and it's not a paradox

Assumption based on presupposition, the Fermi paradox is in no way an evidence of a god, just an observation that aliens dont appear on every street corner.

How have we found fine tuning prohibits life on other planets? Has the creation institute been running interplanetary visits without telling anyone?

Ehmmm, moon, lack of atmosphere, specifically oxygen.

The bottom line is still, if evolution is true, then where is everybody? Why no contact in 200K years? Are there no other earth like planets? That's further evidence of science backing up the Bible.

You just don't like the part where this backs up the Bible and evidence for God because it messes up your worldview. My next point would be can any creatures, not just humans, be able to live on another planet or asteroid? I don't think they can according to fine tuning theory. I don't know if these kinds of experiments were done on the moon. Are you saying that due to lack of atmosphere and oxygen that there aren't any earth creature that can survive by experiment? Humans would have trouble colonizing the moon.

Furthermore, I put the link to the paper on Drake's equation using Monte Carlo theory up to make the parameters more realistic. It's from Cornell, the university that hired Carl Sagan after he was denied tenure at Harvard. You can download the paper by pressing the button on the top left. BTW Carl Sagan wasn't an atheist after all. Another misleading claim by atheists to make him one of their own. Sagan was one who helped create SETI.

Here's what Fermi could figure out. He could estimate the number of piano tuners in Chicago.

 

[leibowde84]

One of my arguments for evidence of God is aliens or the lack of extraterrestrial life. In other words, the Bible does not state that God created aliens.

Most of us know about Drake's Equation when discussing aliens. Yet, even if we acknowledge that Drake did not make his parameters correct in his equation, there has been enough time for SETI to have made extraterrestrial contact or aliens to have made contact with SETI. If there are intelligent alien civilizations and other planets like earth in the universe, then they would have the power to be able to fly and colonize the universe as we would. They should have been here if they possessed superior technology to ours. This lack of contact by extraterrestrials led Dr. Enrico Fermi to suddenly exclaim, "Where is Everybody?" during a lunch he was having with distinguished scientist colleagues in 1961 after a discussion about ETs.

A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence
[0810.2222] A Numerical Testbed for Hypotheses of Extraterrestrial Life and Intelligence

"Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

Is there obvious proof that we could be alone in the Galaxy? Enrico Fermi thought so -- and he was a pretty smart guy. Might he have been right?

It's been a hundred years since Fermi, an icon of physics, was born (and nearly a half-century since he died). He's best remembered for building a working atomic reactor in a squash court. But in 1950, Fermi made a seemingly innocuous lunchtime remark that has caught and held the attention of every SETI researcher since. (How many luncheon quips have you made with similar consequence?)

The remark came while Fermi was discussing with his mealtime mates the possibility that many sophisticated societies populate the Galaxy. They thought it reasonable to assume that we have a lot of cosmic company. But somewhere between one sentence and the next, Fermi's supple brain realized that if this was true, it implied something profound. If there are really a lot of alien societies, then some of them might have spread out.

Fermi realized that any civilization with a modest amount of rocket technology and an immodest amount of imperial incentive could rapidly colonize the entire Galaxy. Within ten million years, every star system could be brought under the wing of empire. Ten million years may sound long, but in fact it's quite short compared with the age of the Galaxy, which is roughly ten thousand million years. Colonization of the Milky Way should be a quick exercise.

So what Fermi immediately realized was that the aliens have had more than enough time to pepper the Galaxy with their presence. But looking around, he didn't see any clear indication that they're out and about. This prompted Fermi to ask what was (to him) an obvious question: "where is everybody?"

Fermi Paradox | SETI Institute

Thus, the Fermi Paradox provides more evidence of God.

In addition to this, we have found that fine tuning prohibits life on other planets unless they are finely tuned like earth. Has there been experiments done where they take earth creatures to see if they can survive on the moon? We already know they can survive in outer space, but can they survive and thrive on the moon? If they can't, then it's more evidence for the fine tuning theory.

Are you only discussing intelligent alien life, or just alien life? Also, your SETI argument is incredibly lacking, as if there is intelligent life, it is highly probable that they are so far that our signals have not reached them yet. So, it seems that you are making vast assumptions about something that no one knows anything about. In terms of probability, it seems like a foregone conclusion that alien life does exist. Is it intelligent ... who knows? But, there is absolutely no reason to believe that they don't exist. The only argument rests on nothing more than an argument from ignorance. The lack of current contact does not in any way evidence that aliens don't exist.

 

[HonestJoe]

If no aliens, then it certainly puts a dent in alien creation. Also, what about evolution? If life happens everywhere on planets like earth, then where is everybody? Dr. Fermi asked a valid question.

It is a valid question but it doesn't have a definitive answer. The question doesn't automatically mean there are (or have been) no advanced alien species as there are other possible explanations for us have never recognised any evidence of their existence and we're not in a position to know the right answer.

What it does is it backs up the Bible.

No, it still doesn't. Even if we had definitive proof that there are no aliens, one thing not mentioned in the Bible not existing wouldn't "back up the Bible". There are countless other religions which don't mention aliens but it couldn't back them all up (many are contradictory or explicitly exclusive). There are probably one or two which do mention aliens and explain why we don't know they exist so if anything they'd have more justification to take this as backing for their faiths.

Are we close to being multiplanetary? I don't think we can colonize the moon. That leaves Mars. Carl Sagan didn't think exploration of Mars for colonization was a good idea.

I thought the idea was that any intelligent alien species would inevitably colonise the galaxy given enough time. Why doesn't that apply to humans too?

 

[Polymath257]

Based? Perhaps in the case of some, but I sincerely doubt that this is the case for people like *Ernst Mayr, whose focus was on the fraction of life-baring planets that develops intelligent life.

In any event, I would have thought that the casual ad hominem was beneath you.

He was basing these ideas on information that is now out of date.

 

[columbus]

Ha that is true, don't take my word for anything either.

I don't.
Including when you talk about Scriptures.
Why would I?

But what subject are you referring to now, ET or Evolution?

The one you were talking about when I quoted you.
Feel free to educate yourself on that.
Or don't. I didn't just meet you Christians..
I don't think that you will. Religionists generally don't.
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

It seems like the OP was not based on reading the article, notably the conclusions notably that there is insufficient data for a reliable answer. Trying to use very preliminary data to reach a conclusion is akin to building a castle on the sand where a wave could wash it away in an instant.

1. ... output data will only be as useful as the input data will allow (the perennial “garbage in, garbage out” problem). Current data on exoplanets, while improving daily, is still insufficient to explore the parameter space in mass and orbital radii, and as such all results here are very much incomplete...

What? We are supposed to read stuff through now? Jeeeeez, Louise!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He was basing these ideas on information that is now out of date.

That may be. Tomorrow marks the 13th anniversary of his death and I'm sure much has been learned in the field of evolutionary biology over that period. I'd be interested in hearing what, specifically, you had in mind.

 

[columbus]

Why would you assume I was talking about water?

Right here:

There's enough evidence from the ancient lake beds and hot springs on Mars that I don't have a problem saying that former life has already been discovered.

Tom

 

[columbus]

With your permission, I will quote you on this next time someone talks about the % of scientists that believe in evolution!

Why are you planning to quote me? Do you think I am an authority of some kind?

I don't think so. Why do you?
Tom

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I don't.
Including when you talk about Scriptures.
Why would I?

Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe.
proverbs 28:26

The one you were talking about when I quoted you.
Feel free to educate yourself on that.
Or don't. I didn't just meet you Christians..
I don't think that you will. Religionists generally don't.
Tom

I was an atheist who believed in evolution and ET, before I learned more about the subjects

 

[james bond]

And most utterly fail to understand it. See, for example, Wiki: Rare Earth Hypothesis.

I would think the Rare Earth hypothesis backs up the Bible as earth being a very special place designed as such by God. While the thinking that the planets revolved around earth was wrong, the theory is God intended for earth to reside at the center of the universe. Of course, none of this is a possibility according to atheist scientists. It discredits the thinking that the Fermi paradox isn't a true paradox. They use possibility to explain that Fermi paradox wasn't one, but a presupposition, but eliminate the possibility of God or a creator. It makes their own arguments a presupposition.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Why are you planning to quote me? Do you think I am an authority of some kind?

I don't think so. Why do you?
Tom

I tell them the same thing all the time; look for the science, not the academic opinion, but maybe it would work better coming from another atheist!

 

[james bond]

Maybe civilizations destroy themselves before they get to the stars.

I didn't think of this, but they could've been arguing over creation vs evolution ha ha. It's a possibility. If it is a possibility, then we should be seeing some kind of evidence of a nuclear holocaust or other holocaust even if they are so far away.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

A lot of posts here believe that there is a `god` that created us,
and our Earth,
and of all of the other living entities that occupy our Cosmos.
If this thinking is correct, and there are other `species` out there,
what is the speed of `God's` throne,
that He rides to do all of these endeavers.
Also.....does He take heaven with Him ?
Ahhhhhhh.....the speed and light and `God` !

The speed of light is merely how fast your post is communicated around the world, I'd suspect God has a faster connection!