As always, it pays to read the links provided.
We don't always see & infer the same thing.
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Where is freedom of speech?
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
We don't always see & infer the same thing.
rosends
Well-Known Member
That's a cynical view unsupported by legal precedent. If a US court rules that someone advocating for the overthrow of the US government can be deprived of their access to airwaves, that is a legally defensible position. Claiming that that is just the suppression of contrary viewpoints is wrong.
In Pakistan you'd of course be murdered or at best tried and executed if you did that.
Maybe it's language but FIFA/UEFA are not freedom of speech. They are sports clubs that can do what they wish.
And your one sided attack on the West has me convinced that you are ignoring the much worse suppression by Russia and Muslim majority countries.
Freedom of speech exists -- but so does our freedom to disbelieve the nonsense that might be spoken. You are allowed to lie -- I am not required to believe you.
war of media is almost same as war on ground.
I remember a picture of Ukranian sold take a picture ,he share it , Russia troups hit that place ,they all die.
Fact FIFA always claimed before never mix politics with sports.
The fact. West hurt more muslims than Russia.
In Europe it's limited.
It's almost like third world.
EUROPE BANNED Russian channels.
There is no freedom of. Speech in Europe in europe. Just one opinion take rule.
I was addressing only USA.
Europe has always had less free speech than do we.
But they do have access to our media, so censorship
is quite limited.
Augustus
…
Having lived in both Europe and the "third world" I can guarantee you are talking nonsense.
I have never worried about saying something in Europe, I frequently do in the "third world" where speech is not free and justice is not impartial.
Europe isn't ideal, but the difference is massive.
The Russian government isn't invited to participate in the American marketplace of ideas, which exists for ideas to be offered constructively and be considered in the light of common American values. No foreign interest that doesn't share those values or that agenda is welcome to participate. It's why foreigners have restricted access to media ownership and occupying elected office in the States. It's why felons can't vote. If your values are not pro-American, your opinions are excluded.
I'm an expat in a country in which I am not a citizen. I cannot vote, and I can be deported for participating in local politics whether by attending a protest or putting up a candidate's sign on my home. They have no reason to believe that my decisions will take the good of my new home into consideration apart from my own best interests.
And I'm certain that Russia's intent is malicious and destructive in the West. They are essentially being "deported" from those markets where their presence and their ideas are unwelcome. If you think that's a mistake, perhaps you should rethink what speech should be free and what kind should not. Secular humanists make these decisions based on expected outcomes, and favor those that benefit the most people. Accepting propaganda from malicious sources expected to degrade American life would be deemed immoral by that reckoning.
That is not the case
Russian war crimes are the violations of the law of war, including the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 and the Geneva Conventions, consisting out of war crimes and crimes against humanity, of which the official armed and paramilitary forces of the Russian Federation are accused of committing since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991. This also extends to include aiding and abetting crimes of proto-states or client states armed and financed by Russia, including Luhansk People's Republic and Donetsk People's Republic. These have included the summary execution of captured enemy combatants, the mistreatment of prisoners during interrogation (torture), and the use of violence against civilian non-combatants, including rape.
Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have recorded Russian war crimes in Chechnya,[1][2][3] Georgia,[4][5] Ukraine[6][7] and Syria.[8][9][10][11] Médecins Sans Frontières also documented war crimes in Chechnya.[12] In 2017 the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) has reported that Russia used cluster and incendiary weapons in Syria, constituting the war crime of indiscriminate attacks in a civilian populated area.[13]
By 2009, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) issued 115 verdicts (including in Baysayeva v. Russia case) finding the Russian government guilty of enforced disappearances, murder, torture, and for failing to properly investigate these crimes in Chechnya.[14] In 2021, the ECHR also separately found Russia guilty of murder, torture, looting and destruction of homes in Georgia, as well as preventing the return of 20,000 displaced Georgians to their territory.[15][16][17]
And when there was the Soviet Union, it was also the case
The army of the Soviet Union killed large numbers of Afghans to suppress their resistance.[167] Up to 2 million Afghans were killed by the Soviet forces and their proxies.[169] In one notable incident the Soviet Army committed mass killing of civilians in the summer of 1980.[170] One notable war crime was the Laghman massacre in April 1985 in the villages of Kas-Aziz-Khan, Charbagh, Bala Bagh, Sabzabad, Mamdrawer, Haider Khan and Pul-i-Joghi[171] in the Laghman Province. At least 500 civilians were killed.[172] In the Kulchabat, Bala Karz and Mushkizi massacre on 12 October 1983 the Red Army gathered 360 people at the village square and shot them, including 20 girls and over a dozen older people.[173][174][175] The Rauzdi massacre and Padkhwab-e Shana massacre were also documented.[176]
The army of the Soviet Union killed large numbers of Afghans to suppress their resistance.[167] Up to 2 million Afghans were killed by the Soviet forces and their proxies.[169] In one notable incident the Soviet Army committed mass killing of civilians in the summer of 1980.[170] One notable war crime was the Laghman massacre in April 1985 in the villages of Kas-Aziz-Khan, Charbagh, Bala Bagh, Sabzabad, Mamdrawer, Haider Khan and Pul-i-Joghi[171] in the Laghman Province. At least 500 civilians were killed.[172] In the Kulchabat, Bala Karz and Mushkizi massacre on 12 October 1983 the Red Army gathered 360 people at the village square and shot them, including 20 girls and over a dozen older people.[173][174][175] The Rauzdi massacre and Padkhwab-e Shana massacre were also documented.[176]
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's the same basic principle.
InChrist
Free4ever
That’s because government and corporations, including media, are colluding. This is called corporatism or fascism, which took place in Nazi Germany. Sadly, the US is sliding toward fascism and free speech must be tightly controlled or eliminated.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And we got a lot closer to doing just that under Trump.
There were crimes against humanity done by West in Afganistan too.
I believe West killed very much more ,especially in Iraq sanctions and wars:
Iraq Sanctions Kill Children, U.N. Reports (Published 1995)
As many as 576,000 Iraqi children may have died since the end of the Persian Gulf war because of economic sanctions imposed by the Security Council, according to two scientists who surveyed the country for the Food and Agriculture Organization.
InChrist
Free4ever
You are crediting Trump with too much power and ability. I think the situation is so much bigger. Trump was only a distraction, maybe a puppet.
“But the battle against the corporate state can only succeed if citizens put aside their political blinders and understand that the consolidation of political and economic power represents a fundamental challenge to maintaining a functional, as opposed to a merely nominal, democracy. This is neither a right- nor a left-wing issue but an imperative if we wish to preserve our Republic before it is too late.”
The Rise of Corporate-State Tyranny - The American Way of Life
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First of all your goal posts are kind of unequal - one country vs the entire west.
Second of all your math is not very good. 576,000 in sanctions vs 2million Afghans slaughtered outright.
In my opinion.