Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

[PureX]

Mapped: The world's most (and least) free countries

Is freedom on the rise, or is it in Decline?

There is no doubt the United States has lost a fair amount of freedom the past few decades and has slipped in it's ratings as a free and open country.

Opinions?

Humans survive by learning how to control their environment to their own advantage. Unfortunately, that also includes learning how to control each other to our own advantage. Which means that we endlessly seek to subjugate each other for our own purposes. The only people we really want to be free, is ourselves, while we want everyone else to serve our will and desires. And yet we need each other to live. We need to learn to cooperate to flourish. We are a social species. So we are constantly caught up in this dilemma/dichotomy of needing to enable and respect each other, while simultaneously wanting to control and manipulate each other to our own advantage. And so freedom becomes an endless struggle for us. A battle, even.

Tom Petty was absolutely right when he sang that "everybody's got to fight to be free". And to keep fighting. Because we are surrounded by people who want to subjugate us. Who want to 'own us' for their own use. And at this moment in history they are in control of the levers of money and power, as they almost always are. And they are using them to further enslave us all for their own advantage. And we have been letting them. Because we forgot that our fight for freedom never ends. It has to be fought by every generation, or what freedom we have will be lost.

This is the sad fact of human existence.

 

[Stevicus]

I often wondered why the police are looking more like military soldiers everyday. Are criminals really becoming that sophisticated and dangerous to warrant it all? Much of it seems overkill to me.

I sometimes wonder about that myself. My impression is that most criminals are rather unsophisticated and unintelligent.

It's only in the movies that criminals are shown to be these masterminds who are consummate experts in weapons, martial arts, electronics, computer hacking, fine wines, etc.

As a result, cops go into every encounter assuming that they're dealing with some ninja-warrior super criminal, with an itchy trigger finger and ready to open up with both barrels at the slightest false move.

 

[Quintessence]

I don't really believe freedom is a thing in the manner most humans in my culture seem to believe it is, but if we're speaking to a transition in forms of governance, that's a matter that can be examined. Not much to comment about the matter - it's fairly obvious to anyone paying much attention that the style of governance in nations that have been bastions of liberal democracy are shifting to something a bit different. I actually wouldn't be bothered by a shift to a more authoritarian mode of operation if it was being used to address the most important issues of our time. But it isn't, so instead I just find it annoying.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Mapped: The world's most (and least) free countries

Is freedom on the rise, or is it in Decline?

There is no doubt the United States has lost a fair amount of freedom the past few decades and has slipped in it's ratings as a free and open country.

Opinions?

Define what you mean by "freedom", because quantifying abstract concepts is difficult if you don't.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I often wondered why the police are looking more like military soldiers everyday. Are criminals really becoming that sophisticated and dangerous to warrant it all? Much of it seems overkill to me.

“Do Not Resist” and the Crisis of Police Militarization not a bad article. TLR? Western society collectively reacted the wrong way to 9/11, and we've become the thing we hate.

 

[shmogie]

It's the only freedom that matters to the right. I suspect that they would even sacrifice the 1st amendment if it meant preserving the 2nd.

Care to substantiate this claim ? Actually, no single amendment of the bill of rights can be repealed without a long, very arduous process that won't happen. They ALL are equally important. Told to you by a member of the NRA oooooooh !

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Care to substantiate this claim ? Actually, no single amendment of the bill of rights can be repealed without a long, very arduous process that won't happen. They ALL are equally important. Told to you by a member of the NRA oooooooh !

He expressed an opinion.

 

[shmogie]

“Do Not Resist” and the Crisis of Police Militarization not a bad article. TLR? Western society collectively reacted the wrong way to 9/11, and we've become the thing we hate.

As a 25 year LEO let me explain something to you. When I began my career in 1969, it was rare ro take a handgun off of a suspect. By the time I retired it was common, as well as semi auto rifles modified to fully automatics. This was in California, with extremely strict gun laws. In almost every case, the suspects owned the weapons illegally. All the laws had nil effect regarding them.

Society has coarsened and become exponentially more violent. There were no school shootings till about 30 years ago. Guns haven't changed, nor the percentage of people who own them. The phenomena is the result of a very sick society
None of you have had a friend you worked with for twenty years shot down like a dog in an ambush, and while lying on the ground having his head obliterated by gunfire, I have.

The so called " militarization" of the Police is a direct result of your society and it's self degradation.

A police officers primary responsibility is to survive. Second, is to do his/her job effectively. I personally don't care what is required to do these, as long as they are done.

In my day, we carried a 6 shot revolver and a baton. We had no protective vests, stun guns, automatic weapons, rifles,flak vests, breaching vehicles, no SWAT all the stuff you call "militarization".

Today, we would be slaughtered up against the cartels, MS 13, moslem terrorists, et. al.

I say for today's men and women trying to clean up the effluvia of today's society, whatever it takes, whatever it is, I want you to have it. I want you to go home at the end of your watch

 

[shmogie]

He expressed an opinion.

So did I, regarding another post. He asked for substantiation.

 

[shmogie]

It's hard to know what the long-term effect will be or what "freedom" may look like 20 or 50 years from now. The police have become more militarized, and there seems to be a lot more surveillance and security these days.

I am a proud citizen of Arizona, I like your profile pic !

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As a 25 year LEO let me explain something to you. When I began my career in 1969, it was rare ro take a handgun off of a suspect. By the time I retired it was common, as well as semi auto rifles modified to fully automatics. This was in California, with extremely strict gun laws. In almost every case, the suspects owned the weapons illegally. All the laws had nil effect regarding them.

Society has coarsened and become exponentially more violent. There were no school shootings till about 30 years ago. Guns haven't changed, nor the percentage of people who own them. The phenomena is the result of a very sick society
None of you have had a friend you worked with for twenty years shot down like a dog in an ambush, and while lying on the ground having his head obliterated by gunfire, I have.

The so called " militarization" of the Police is a direct result of your society and it's self degradation.

A police officers primary responsibility is to survive. Second, is to do his/her job effectively. I personally don't care what is required to do these, as long as they are done.

In my day, we carried a 6 shot revolver and a baton. We had no protective vests, stun guns, automatic weapons, rifles,flak vests, breaching vehicles, no SWAT all the stuff you call "militarization".

Today, we would be slaughtered up against the cartels, MS 13, moslem terrorists, et. al.

I say for today's men and women trying to clean up the effluvia of today's society, whatever it takes, whatever it is, I want you to have it. I want you to go home at the end of your watch

Sooo... any factual inaccuracies in the article you can point to, or is this just appeal to emotion defensiveness?

Oh, and before you start making claims based on your experiences, I'm an Iraq veteran, so maybe hold off on the claims about things you've had happen that none of the rest of us have.

 

[shmogie]

Sooo... any factual inaccuracies in the article you can point to, or is this just appeal to emotion defensiveness?

Oh, and before you start making claims based on your experiences, I'm an Iraq veteran, so maybe hold off on the claims about things you've had happen that none of the rest of us have.

You are an Iraq veteran, thank you for your service.

You were in a war zone for an intense, relatively short time. Your mission and ROE's were totally different from a cop going out every day, for years, facing a whole variety of threats from members of your own society. Apples and oranges.

Emotion is irrelevant, and not part of my response. 25 years of experience is. If my appeal was to emotion, I could go on for many paragraphs about dead and maimed coppers, let alone the courts, released murderers doing it again, my personal experience with one who within 24 hours of release murdered two cops and a kid, etc.

My specific point was clear and unambiguous, Society has changed for the worse, therefore the Police must change in response. As to hardware and tactics that some call "militarization", I call needed and effective. That is solely to what I was speaking .

 

[godnotgod]

.... we are constantly caught up in this dilemma/dichotomy of needing to enable and respect each other, while simultaneously wanting to control and manipulate each other to our own advantage. And so freedom becomes an endless struggle for us. A battle, even..

In terms of an awakened consciousness, it appears that, because people all over the world are awakening to a higher vision and want change as a result, the old guard has recoiled in fear and has reinforced itself against what it perceives as a threat.* Those who are asleep spiritually do all in their power to keep other sleeping people asleep, and therefore, under control. Governments want obedience and loyalty from their citizenry, while the citizenry respects the government less and less; orthodox religious authorities condemn the mystical practices such as Zen, Yoga, and Wicca as instruments of the devil; students have less respect for the educational system as they see it as a tool of the moneyed interests to mold them into its servants; and on and on.

*example: China's outlawing of the very popular practice of Falun Gong amongst the common man.

Persecution of Falun Gong - Wikipedia

also, the Church's vehement opposition to the Theory of Evolution

But the danger, it seems to me, is that the oppressed eventually gain control and become the oppressor. Christianity is one good example of this. Also, Americans were once oppressed, and now we are seen as a threat around the world by some other nations.

 

[shmogie]

The Church isn't

In terms of an awakened consciousness, it appears that, because people all over the world are awakening to a higher vision and want change as a result, the old guard has recoiled in fear and has reinforced itself against what it perceives as a threat.* Those who are asleep spiritually do all in their power to keep other sleeping people asleep, and therefore, under control. Governments want obedience and loyalty from their citizenry, while the citizenry respects the government less and less; orthodox religious authorities condemn the mystical practices such as Zen, Yoga, and Wicca as instruments of the devil; students have less respect for the educational system as they see it as a tool of the moneyed interests to mold them into its servants; and on and on.

*example: China's outlawing of the very popular practice of Falun Gong amongst the common man.

Persecution of Falun Gong - Wikipedia

also, the Church's vehement opposition to the Theory of Evolution

But the danger, it seems to me, is that the oppressed eventually gain control and become the oppressor. Christianity is one good example of this. Also, Americans were once oppressed, and now we are seen as a threat around the world by some other nations.

vehemently in opposition to the theory of evolution, we embrace it. We believe that animals respond to, and adapt to their environment. It is called micro evolution. We do not believe that types, i.e, lizards, fish, mammals, mollusks etc.turn into another type, that is macro evolution. We reject categorically that life sprang from non living chemicals, abiogenesis thus starting the ball of macro evolution rolling.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The Church isn't

vehemently in opposition to the theory of evolution, we embrace it. We believe that animals respond to, and adapt to their environment. It is called micro evolution. We do not believe that types, i.e, lizards, fish, mammals, mollusks etc.turn into another type, that is macro evolution. We reject categorically that life sprang from non living chemicals, abiogenesis thus starting the ball of macro evolution rolling.

What you mean "we", whiteman?

 

[shmogie]

What you mean "we", whiteman?

Well, I should say, Evangelical Protestants, and most Moderate Protestants, better ? Catholicism does it's own thing, that's what brought about the Reformation in the first place,

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Well, I should say, Evangelical Protestants, and most Moderate Protestants, better ? Catholicism does it's own thing, that's what brought about the Reformation in the first place,

Most moderate protestants? Citation?

 

[godnotgod]

The Church isn't

vehemently in opposition to the theory of evolution, we embrace it. We believe that animals respond to, and adapt to their environment. It is called micro evolution. We do not believe that types, i.e, lizards, fish, mammals, mollusks etc.turn into another type, that is macro evolution. We reject categorically that life sprang from non living chemicals, abiogenesis thus starting the ball of macro evolution rolling.

 

[PureX]

But the danger, it seems to me, is that the oppressed eventually gain control and become the oppressor. Christianity is one good example of this. Also, Americans were once oppressed, and now we are seen as a threat around the world by some other nations.

And the abused become the abusers. Because we humans tend not to learn from our suffering, but instead simply desire to inflict it upon others, to gain back our sense of importance and empowerment, that we lost at the hands of others. So the cycle just goes on and on and on.

At some point we need to wake up, and forgive the past, and try to learn to cooperate with each other for the sake of EVERYONE'S well-being. Instead of competing with everyone for dominance, and for our own well-being at the expense of everyone else's. But we humans, as clever as we are, still have not learned this simple lesson.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Muslims are a special case. Their holy books, the koran and hadith are perfectly clear. No muslim can ever have alliegence to any nation, unless it espouses both the religious and governmental system of islam. a theocracy. These books also make it clear that muslims in countryś outside of islam are to work tirelessly to make them islam.

Multiculturalism totally fails with muslims, because it is hated by them, they are interested in having only culture, theirs, one nation, theirs. This isn´t a choice for a muslim, the only choice is to cease being a muslim and assimilate and become a patriotic citizen of the nation they are in, or remain true to the teachings. There is no compromise

Except there are plenty of Muslims who don't seem to have a problem thinking of themselves as both Muslims and citizens/nationals of a non-Muslim country. It's not necessarily an either/or.