Where is Mount Sumeru?

[Native]

@Rivervolf (Others)

Read my open peer review papers here:

Circular Galactic Formation - http://vixra.org/abs/1605.0283

Astronomical and Mythical Comparisons of the Creation - http://vixra.org/abs/1603.0078

Click on the Download PDF links.

Enjoy Looking forward to your feedback.

 

[Aupmanyav]

For us, in Himalayas (Uttarkhand, near where River Ganges originates), also known as Shark-Fin Mountain. The mountain has three peaks: southern (6,660 metres, 21,850 ft), central (6,310 metres, 20,700 ft), and northern (6,450 metres, 21,160 ft). It is sort of medium height mountain, which the apprentice climbers can try. 21,000 is no big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meru_Peak
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=Mount+Meru,+Uttarakhand&newwindow=1&rlz=1C1LENP_enIN576IN576&espv=2&biw=1455&bih=705&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4ntW64P7MAhUYR48KHd72DbUQ_AUICCgD#newwindow=1&tbm=isch&q="Mount+Meru,+India"

 

[Native]

Hello Aupmanyav,

For us, in Himalayas (Uttarkhand, near where River Ganges originates). The mountain has three peaks: southern (6,660 metres, 21,850 ft), central (6,310 metres, 20,700 ft), and northern (6,450 metres, 21,160 ft).

All over the world ancient people named significant mountains as a remembrance of the Sacred Cosmic Mountain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_mountains

The Hindu myth of Mount Meru speaks of "the sun and all planets are orbiting this mountain as one unit" - so the geographical Mount Meru mentioned in wikipedia is just a remembrance of the orbital center of the Solar System i.e. the Milky Way center.

Sacred mountains are central to certain religions and are the subjects of many legends. For many, the most symbolic aspect of a mountain is the peak because it is believed that it is closest to heaven or other religious worlds.

About the Ganges Myth: Also rivers on Earth is mentioned as remembrance of the Celestial River i.e. the Milky Way - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_for_the_Milky_Way

In - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way_(mythology)#Hindu - the text says that:

In the Hindu collection of stories called Bhagavata Purana, all the visible stars and planets moving through space are likened to a dolphin that swims through the water, and the heavens are called śiśumãra cakra, the dolphin disc. The Milky Way forms the abdomen of the dolphin and is called Akasaganga which means "The Ganges River of the Sky"

See the illustrations of the Milky Way here - http://www.native-science.net/MilkyWay.MotherGoddess.htm - The "abdomen of the dolphin" is similar to the "womb of the female figure" which also contains the center of the Milky Way galaxy, around which the Solar System orbits.

 

[Aupmanyav]

“There is a peculiarity at the place, where the latitude is greater than 66° N. Whenever the northern declination of the sun exceeds the complement of the latitude, there will be perpetual day, for such time is that excess continues. Similarly when the southern declination exceeds, there will be perpetual night. On Meru, therefore there is equal half-yearly perpetual day and night.” Thus if the latitude of a place be 70°, its complement will be 90 – 70 = 20°; and as the sun’s heights above the celestial equator (that is, his declination) is never greater than 23° 28' there will be a continuous day at the place, so long as the declination is greater than 20° and less 23° 28', and there will be a similar continuous night when the sun is in the Southern hemisphere. Paul Du Chaillu mentions that at Nordkyn or North Cape (N. lat. 71° 6'50'') the northernmost place on the continent of Europe, the long night commences on 18th November, and ends on 24th January, lasting in all, for 67 days of twenty-four hours each."
Cf. Bhāskarâchārya’s Siddhânta Shiromani, Golādhyâya, Chapter vii., verses 6-7.

"Mount Meru is the terrestrial North Pole of our astronomers, and the Sûrya-Siddhânta, XII, 67, says: “At Meru Gods behold the sun after but a single rising during the half of his revolution beginning with Aries.”

"It has been shown that Vedic religion and worship are both inter-Glacial; and that though we cannot trace their ultimate origin, yet the Arctic character of the Vedic deities fully proves that the powers of Nature represented by them had been already clothed with divine attributes by the primitive Aryans in their original home round about the North Pole, or the Meru of the Purânas. When the Polar home was destroyed by glaciation, the Aryan people that survived the catastrophe carried with them as much of their religion and worship as it was possible to do under the circumstances; and the relic, thus saved from the general wreck, was the basis of the Aryan religion in the post-Glacial age."
"Arctic Home in Vedas", B. G. Tilak, https://archive.org/details/TheArcticHomeInTheVedas

So, don't look for Mount Meru at any other place, it is the North Pole.

 

[Native]

"Mount Meru is the terrestrial North Pole of our astronomers, and the Sûrya-Siddhânta, XII, 67, says: “At Meru Gods behold the sun after but a single rising during the half of his revolution beginning with Aries.”

I know of this north celestial pole = Mount Meru-claim. When scholars aren´t aware of the Milky Way myths and take the mythical context seriously, their only option left is to interpret the Mount Meru myth in the context of "the Earth celestial axis", which also is described in mytho-cosmological explanations.

The "single rising" and the connection to the zodiacal constellation of Aries speaks of the annual seasonal cycle where the Sun rise and fall in the Sky and not of the daily cycle which is determined by the Earth rotation on its celestial axis.

The myth of Mount Mery speaks specifically of "the Sun and all planets orbiting the mythical mountain as one unit".

That is: You have to imagine how this myth is imagined and constructed by humans. You cannot observe the Sun at night when you can locate the Earth rotational axis. The Sun and the planets cannot be observed orbiting as one unit around the celestial pole as it is the case with the circumpolar stars and constellations.

So, don't look for Mount Meru at any other place, it is the North Pole.

Don´t underestimate the observational and intuitive skills of the ancestors

 

[Native]

"Arctic Home in Vedas", B. G. Tilak, https://archive.org/details/TheArcticHomeInTheVedas

I haven´t read the book yet, but just skimmed it. This is another example of scholars who are reading ancient texts of creation and reduce the mytho-astronomical context of ancient deities (Arya´s) to deal with geographical matters and an ancient human race, which of course descended from the celestial Arya deities.

 

[Aupmanyav]

 

[Aupmanyav]

This speaks of the ancient knowledge of the Milky Way creation in which center, the first firm soil is made, ..

Firm soil at the center of the Milky Way galaxy. As far as I know there is a big black hole.

"The very center is marked by an intense radio source, named Sagittarius A*, which is likely to be a supermassive black hole." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

As for the center of Universe, this should be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...#The_nonexistence_of_a_center_of_the_Universe
But then we must first know the shape of the universe. For that this should be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

Here are some images of the supposed shape of the universe. Have a nice time exploring them.
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=s...2&ved=0ahUKEwjS1K3sg__MAhXHNI8KHfjkCtwQsAQINQ

 

[Native]

Thanks for the videos

Firm soil at the center of the Milky Way galaxy. As far as I know there is a big black hole.

Shouldn´t this be: "As far as I´m told"? Or "as far as standing cosmological theories suggests"?

What kind of a scientific theory is it to have a hole where everything disappears in a singularity and never can be found again? This is a scientific violation of the laws of energy conservation.

Ancient myths speaks of cyclical formation/creation and regarding the creation of the Milky Way, this takes place when gas and particles are assembled in a swirling motion into a center where it all are sorted out and electromagnetically bound together in large molted spheres, which are spread out from the galactic center, hence the myth of the "first firm soil formatted in the galactic center.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What kind of a scientific theory is it to have a hole where everything disappears in a singularity and never can be found again?

That is not what science says or what science observes.

http://nasa-satellites.blogspot.in/2012/12/nasa-discovered-symmetry-in-black-hole.html

 

[Native]

That is not what science says or what science observes.

From your link:

Scientists at NASA have exposed a new stable that links various sizes of black holes. A black hole jet is the torrent of gamma radiation frequently emitted from the ‘event horizon’; the innermost rim and point of no go back, of a black hole. When gas gets sucked inside of the black hole, some of the substance becomes accelerated and races external as a pair of jets curving in opposite directions. Jets are seen in black holes of a lot of different sizes; from the modest-shaped, to the behemoth holes that power the centers of galaxies.

What are the scientists really talking of here? The article deals with "a new stable that links various sizes of black holes", namely the electromagnetic gamma rays and "jets". They STILL speak of "black holes" according to their gravitational theories of "accretions, collisions and explosions".

It isn´t the holes which "powers the centers of galaxies". Strangely enough, the scientist’s measures strong magnetic rays, but this is ignored by the "standard model" scientists. Where there is magnetic fields, there also are electric currents and the magnetic field in galaxies is spherically, as on the Sun and Earth, and it flows in opposite directions from the galactic center as said with the article sentence "some of the substance becomes accelerated and races external as a pair of jets curving in opposite directions".

The galactic "holes" are nothing else but electromagnetic funnels where the electric currents governs the rotation and the perpendicular magnetic field creates the galactic disk and all what is formatted in the galaxy. The formation process is cyclical and nothing disappears but participates in the ongoing cycle of formation.

In the Egyptian story of creation, the Ogdoad, the central Milky Way light is called Atum-Ra, and this light is the first fiery entity to be created on the Primeval Mound = Mount Meru in the Hindu myth - and together with the goddess Hathor, they create everything in the Milky Way via the central light.

In the mythical telling of the creation, deities of both genders participates in the cyclical formation of creation, dissolution and re-creation. In an interpretation of the creation myths to modern scientific language, the overall telling is something like this:

Female and male deities = opposite but complementary forces of creation (specifically electromagnetism) creates everything, in cultural myths mentioned as “the children of the primeval gods and goddesses”. But the deities = “natural forces of creation” also “eat their children” again i.e., everything what is created, will be dissolved into the smallest elements again and be used in the ongoing process of creation or formation.

That is: The principles of creation/formation is cyclical and eternal, contrary to the ideas of Big Bang.

In the Egyptian story of creation, the Ogdoad, the central Milky Way light is called Atum-RA, and this light is the first fiery entity to be created on the mythic "Primeval Mound" = Mount Meru in the Hindu myth - and together with the goddess Hathor, they create everything in the Milky Way via the central electromagnetic light.

Links:
Ogdoad, story of creation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogdoad#In_Egyptian_mythology

Milky Way goddess Hathor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor#Relationships.2C_associations.2C_images.2C_and_symbols

 

[Aupmanyav]

You are talking myths, I am talking science. The power is everywhere in the universe, in each sub-atomic particle (if we see it that way). There is no central grand engine which powers the universe or the galaxies. Oh yes, scientists have their differences. All the secrets of energy are not known. Some believe it one way, others believe it the other way. The questions will be better answered by future generations. Each generation has a limit of what it knows. I hope, but do not really know when there will be a know-all generation.

 

[Native]

You are talking myths, I am talking science.

Correction I´m talking "mytho-cosmological science" and it is my claim that ancient myths of creation contains more logical informations than theories of modern cosmology.

The power is everywhere in the universe, in each sub-atomic particle

I agree in this

 

[Aupmanyav]

Correction I´m talking "mytho-cosmological science" and it is my claim that ancient myths of creation contains more logical informations than theories of modern cosmology.

Don't add science here, 'mytho-cosmological' is the correct word. Best for you, not so for me.

For me, it is Brahman, physical energy, does not do anything, does not change. The creation, the universe, birth and death, they are all perceptions of our limited senses, illusions of our mind, 'maya'. See inside these perceptions, and there is energy only, nothing else.

That is why Hindu books said 'Ekameva adviteeyam' - Verily one, without a second.

 

[Native]

For me, it is Brahman, physical energy, does not do anything, does not change. The creation, the universe, birth and death, they are all perceptions of our limited senses, illusions of our mind, 'maya'. See inside these perceptions, and there is energy only, nothing else.

I once again agree

Quote from - http://www.hindunet.org/god/trinity/

The Hindu trinity is of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. They are respectively the creator, preserver and destroyer of the universe.

As I wrote above about the creative process:

Female and male deities = opposite but complementary forces of creation (specifically electromagnetism) creates everything, in cultural myths mentioned as “the children of the primeval gods and goddesses”. But the deities = “natural forces of creation” also “eat their children” again i.e., everything what is created, will be dissolved into the smallest elements again and be used in the ongoing process of creation or formation.

. . . they are all perceptions of our limited senses, illusions of our mind, 'maya'.

I don´t quite agree in this, since our ancestors de facto have discovered the basical trinity-principles of creation and noticed these in their Myths of Creation.

I rather think the term "the illusion of maya" fits better to modern cosmological scientists, who are lost in all kinds of unnatural cosmic speculations and mathematical equations.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don´t quite agree in this, ..

If you agree with the first statement, then there is no reason to differ from the second.
Is energy created? Is it born? Does it Die? All illusions, 'maya', and as Buddhists will say 'anatta' (without substance), 'anicca' (without permanence).

 

[gnostic]

What are the scientists really talking of here? The article deals with "a new stable that links various sizes of black holes", namely the electromagnetic gamma rays and "jets". They STILL speak of "black holes" according to their gravitational theories of "accretions, collisions and explosions".

What "explosion"?

I have never heard of science speak of blackholes, whether it be stellar or supermassive blackhole, involving "explosion".

Correction I´m talking "mytho-cosmological science" and it is my claim that ancient myths of creation contains more logical informations than theories of modern cosmology.

Sorry, but there is no such thing "mytho-cosmological science". There are no science in myth.

You, and others like you, keep forgetting for there to be either verifiable and testable evidences (eg experimental physics) or proof (mathematical solutions, like equations or mathematical models, eg theoretical physics), OR ideally both evidences and proofs. But even with proofs (mathematical proofs), doesn't mean the theory is true, until there are evidences to support and verify the theory is true.

Take Einstein's theory on relativity for instance. He had two papers, one on Special Relativity (1905) and General Relativity (1916) were originally theoretical, until scientists were able to test his theories.

When it comes to finding what is truly TRUE in science, experimental evidences always trump science that only have proofs (logical or mathematical solution).

This myth regarding Mount Sumeru being in the centre of the Milky Way is purely speculative and your interpretation, not science, because it is not testable or verifiable.

As it stand, the whole Mount Sumeru myth does not even qualify as a "scientific hypothesis", let alone a scientific theory. It has no more credibility than the creationist's Intelligent Design, and both ID and Mount Sumeru are more in the realm of pseudoscience.

 

[Native]

If you agree with the first statement, then there is no reason to differ from the second.
Is energy created? Is it born? Does it Die? All illusions, 'maya', and as Buddhists will say 'anatta' (without substance), 'anicca' (without permanence).

Just for the philosophical fun: Isn´t it somewhat contra intuitive to put explanations on Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva as respectively the creator, preserver and destroyer of the universe, and then say they are illusions?

IMO they represent fundamental mytho-cosmological and real scientific principles and not illusions

 

[Native]

What "explosion"?

I have never heard of science speak of blackholes, whether it be stellar or supermassive blackhole, involving "explosion".

Think of the terminology of "Supernova" and even the formation of the Solar System.

Sorry, but there is no such thing "mytho-cosmological science". There are no science in myth.

Would you call yourself an expert on mythology?

When it comes to finding what is truly TRUE in science, experimental evidences always trump science that only have proofs (logical or mathematical solution).

OK, lets se the standing cosmological science perform a scientific experiment with the Big Bang

This myth regarding Mount Sumeru being in the centre of the Milky Way is purely speculative and your interpretation, not science, because it is not testable or verifiable.

Do your own speculations: What is the center around which the Sun and the planets orbits as one unit, as the myth of Meru states?

As it stand, the whole Mount Sumeru myth does not even qualify as a "scientific hypothesis", let alone a scientific theory. It has no more credibility than the creationist's Intelligent Design, and both ID and Mount Sumeru are more in the realm of pseudoscience.

I agree. The fact that the Sun and planets orbits a center, isn´t a scientific hypothesis, because it is an observed fact. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_year

Stating a mythical fact as "pseudoscience" is pure ignorance.

 

[gnostic]

Think of the terminology of "Supernova" and even the formation of the Solar System.

No one knows what the supermassive black hole is, native. Nor do they really know how it is formed.

Stellar black hole on the other hand, is not the result of supernova, native.

In fact, stellar black hole is the result of star being so massive that everything (like the outer layers) would collapse on itself to the core, from the massive gravitational forces...so black hole is more of "implosion" than an "explosion".

Supernova is a massive star that exploded.

Our sun will not suffer the same fate of either supernova or black hole (between these two is neutron star).

Our sun is mostly consists of hydrogen. A process known as stellar nucleosynthesis, in which two hydrogen atoms fused into the heavier helium atom. This process of nuclear fusion is what cause the light, heat and energy.

When our sun run out of hydrogen to fuse into heavier element, like helium, the sun will begin to fuse helium atoms into heavier elements, which will cause the sun transformed from yellow dwarf star into a red giant, growing increasingly large in size and hotter than it is now. The red giant star will eventually consume Mercury and possibly Venus.

By that time, the sun (red giant) will strip away our atmosphere, and everything will die, and the oceans will evaporate. The surface or upper layers of the red giant will break apart and send debris in all direction, until eventually only the sun's core is left, becoming a white dwarf.

Our sun don't have as near as much mass to become a supernova, neutron star or black hole.

What you really need to understand is that supernova and black hole are two different things, and only supernova will explode.