Where is the sacrifice?

[Kenny]

So you think that Luke wasn't reliable?

very reliable.

 

[Soandso]

Yikes... So much mental gymnastics to make this stuff work. No thanks

 

[Ebionite]

very reliable.

So how can the empty tomb be discovered on the third day if the High Sabbath wasn't the same day as the weekly sabbath?

first day: crucifixion, entombment about sunset
second day: sabbath
third day: discovery of the empty tomb at around sunrise

 

[Kenny]

So how can the empty tomb be discovered on the third day if the High Sabbath wasn't the same day as the weekly sabbath?

first day: crucifixion, entombment about sunset
second day: sabbath
third day: discovery of the empty tomb at around sunrise

high Sabbath - Thursday
Regular Sabbath - Friday.
Thursday to Friday - 1 day
Friday - Saturday - 2 day
Saturday - Sunday - 3 day

 

[Ebionite]

high Sabbath - Thursday
Regular Sabbath - Friday.
Thursday to Friday - 1 day
Friday - Saturday - 2 day
Saturday - Sunday - 3 day

Fail. In Judaism counting is done with natural numbers, so in your timeline the first day would be Wednesday, since Luke starts counting from the crucifixion. Following from that, the discovery of the empty tomb on the first day of the week would be the fifth day, not the third day that Luke reported.

 

[Kenny]

Fail. In Judaism counting is done with natural numbers, so in your timeline the first day would be Wednesday, since Luke starts counting from the crucifixion. Following from that, the discovery of the empty tomb on the first day of the week would be the fifth day, not the third day that Luke reported.

Sorry... no go... as Noah... It isn't your timetable but YHWH's timetable, it isn't tradition but truth.

 

[Ebionite]

Sacrificial offering has long been a part of religious ideology and a big part of Hebrew theology.

It was only for the children of Israel. Blood sacrifice was repudiated by the prophets and in the gospels knowledge is the remedy.

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of Elohim more than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 8:12

 

[Ebionite]

Sorry... no go... as Noah... It isn't your timetable but YHWH's timetable, it isn't tradition but truth.

Your "truth" contradicts the text which you hold to be reliable. There's no reason to think that you know what YHWH's timetable is.

Surely the Lord YHWH will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 3:7

 

[Kenny]

Your "truth" contradicts the text which you hold to be reliable. There's no reason to think that you know what YHWH's timetable is.

Surely the Lord YHWH will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 3:7

It isn't me, it is Jesus, the Living Word that was made flesh. Heb 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[Ebionite]

It isn't me, it is Jesus, the Living Word that was made flesh.

Pharisee doctrine. It draws from the fake story of the spear to connect to the word that was pierced in Zechariah 12:10.
The writer of John had insider knowledge and favoured the Pharisees when there was a difference with the synoptic gospels.

Hebrews demands blood, but the Torah provides alternatives:

But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put [any] frankincense thereon: for it [is] a sin offering.
Leviticus 5:11

 

[Kenny]

Pharisee doctrine. It draws from the fake story of the spear to connect to the word that was pierced in Zechariah 12:10.
The writer of John had insider knowledge and favoured the Pharisees when there was a difference with the synoptic gospels.

Hebrews demands blood, but the Torah provides alternatives:

But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put [any] frankincense thereon: for it [is] a sin offering.
Leviticus 5:11

So? Did that eliminate the blood placed on the Arc of the Covenant? Did that stop the sacrifice of the goat for the sin offering for Israel? And the scapegoat that was led away? What did you think Hebrews was talking about?

 

[Ebionite]

So?

So your error relating to the sign of Jonah apparently derives a dependence of the doctrine of atonement by blood, which is a doctrine that is was repudiated by the prophets.

Did that eliminate the blood placed on the Arc of the Covenant?

It wasn't the blood of the Messiah, assuming that the story was true. The true testimony of the Messiah is from Psalm 35 not Psalm 69.

Did that stop the sacrifice of the goat for the sin offering for Israel?

No, for the children of Israel.

And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.
Leviticus 16:5

What did you think Hebrews was talking about?

The Pauline worldview. The most likely candidate for authorship of Hebrews is Apollos, an associate of Paul.

 

[Kenny]

No, for the children of Israel.

Same thing - that's what I was saying

The Pauline worldview. The most likely candidate for authorship of Hebrews is Apollos, an associate of Paul.

Opinion.. doesn't change the truth of what was said.

It wasn't the blood of the Messiah, assuming that the story was true. The true testimony of the Messiah is from Psalm 35 not Psalm 69.

Types and shadows even as the sacrifice of the YHWY miracle son of Isaac and the sacrifice required as Abraham saw the day of the sacrifice of The Word made flesh.

 

[Ebionite]

Same thing - that's what I was saying

No, it's not the same. Childish beliefs are for children.

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 8:12

Opinion.. doesn't change the truth of what was said.

It remains that Your "truth" contradicts text that you hold to be reliable.

Types and shadows even as the sacrifice of the YHWY miracle son of Isaac

The name is YHWH. Isaac wasn't sacrificed.

sacrifice required as Abraham

Never happened. He wan't told to kill the animals.

And he said, Lord YHWH, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Genesis 15:8-12

 

[Fool]

Christians believe God sent his son Jesus as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind, but 3 days later he was resurrected. Where is the sacrifice in that? Sacrifice is something you lose permanently; to lose your life only to regain it later does not seem to be a sacrifice IMO; am I missing something?

Hosea 6:6 explains what is more important but some people want others to sacrifice while they live high on the hog.

 

[Kenny]

No, it's not the same. Childish beliefs are for children.




It remains that Your "truth" contradicts text that you hold to be reliable.


The name is YHWH. Isaac wasn't sacrificed.


Never happened. He wan't told to kill the animals.

And he said, Lord YHWH, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Genesis 15:8-12

You didn't address one point.

I understand why!

 

[Ebionite]

You didn't address one point.

You didn't make a point. You haven't provided any rebuttal of your error about your timeline re the sign of Jonah.

 

[Kenny]

You didn't make a point. You haven't provided any rebuttal of your error about your timeline re the sign of Jonah.

you haven't shown where I was wrong.

 

[Ebionite]

you haven't shown where I was wrong.

Back here:

Fail. In Judaism counting is done with natural numbers, so in your timeline the first day would be Wednesday, since Luke starts counting from the crucifixion. Following from that, the discovery of the empty tomb on the first day of the week would be the fifth day, not the third day that Luke reported.

 

[Kenny]

Back here:

To which I replied, Jesus came to correct tradition with truth.